curling, leathery and light green

[clay10]

I'm on my second round grow from clones on the first round.

I gave them a usual shot of FF Grow big, 1 tsp/gal, to which they seemed to love, until about the fifth day. They started curling a bit and taking on a leathery appearance. This was friday when it started. So I flushed this past sunday and gave them a tad (1/4 strength according to label) of fish emulsion. They only seem to worsen since yesterday.

They also have very light green growth, although spread much further out than it generally is. I'm accustomed to seeing the new growth be that green, but not as far out as a 1/2 inch on the newest leaves. The pics do not show the light greeness at all. If it would help, I can snap some pics of the little girls in some regular light.

Another note, they have been vegging under a 175W MH light theier entire life, but they are currently chillin in the flower chamber since there aren't any ready to flower. I use a 400W HPS to flower.

I also battled some spider mites recently, but they seemed to have stopped if not disappeared all together when i sprayed them with insectisdal soap .

I blame a few of my difficulties on bagseed randomness. But i figure if I can learn to grow shitty genetics, I can get some good stuff when I finally get around to ordering seeds.


Grow Details:

Vegged under a 175W Metal Halide, but recently switched to the 400W HPS till they are big enough.

Soil: 50% Perlite, 50% Calloways premium potting soil (from a local gardening shop, worked well for a while now, its not pre-nuted or anything)
Its pretty airy, but I like it and I check everyday so i rarely have water issues
temps: 80-85 ( i know its high, but they,Ive never really had trouble before, and they get continous fresh air flow from outside the cabinent )
Ferts: i tsp per gallon FoxFarm Grow Big, once a week.
ppM: about 600
pH : 6.5ish


and pics







the second pic really shows the leathery-ess Im talking about

thanks.

 

[eugenegreen]

It could be a nutrient lockout, but I don't really think that is the cause... Could be heat, but I'm not sure of your temps... I think they're overwatered, and now you have serious root (rot) issues...

 

[Guest]

Lock up!

I know nothing of your fert but something is creating this lock up. Maybe you should of started with a diluted solution.

Your temps are not too high but how close is the new increased light to the plants?

 

[Brother_Monk]

I'm taking a longshot here....that soil looks like it has woodchips in it. How's your Ph? I'm betting your Ph is acidic. Use some seedling starter mix next time. That stuff looks like crap.

 

[Blackvelvet]

Does the Calloway soil have dolomite lime or did you add some? Grow big lacks calcium and has little magnesium. Probably needs sulfur too. Ph 6.5 would be high for a soilless mix. (looks like mostly wood products and perlite)

How to test soil ph: After watering and ferting well, wait 30 minutes. Then apply some distilled water to the pot surface to get a small amount of runoff like 1 ounce. Catch this on a saucer. Test this ph. If you can tilt the pot after watering/ferting + waiting 30 minutes and get some liquid out, you can test that instead. Ph should be 5.6 to 6.2

If ph is terribly low like 5, add 1 1/5 to 2 teaspoons powdered dolomite lime per gallon of soil mix and water in.

You should adjust your fert water to about 6 after adding everything. Fertilize with every watering making sure to get alot of runoff out the bottom then allow to get quite dry but not wilting. Really make the plants roots search for the water.

I would try 100 ppm nitrogen in the fert water. This would be about 1 1/4 teaspoons grow big 6-4-4 per gallon of water.
n 100
p 28
k 55

If you have no dolomite lime in your soil mix and ph is ok not low, you can add cal mag to your water instead of lime. Aim for about 4:2:1 ratio of potassium to calcium to magnesium. So if you got 55 k, you would want 27 ca and 14 mg. This would be 3.1 ml per gallon cal mag plus along with the grow big. Or, 1/8 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum (organic traditions won't disolve :[ ) and epsom salts per gallon of water along with the grow big. 1/8 teaspoon calcium nitrate could also be used instead of gypsum. Calcium chloride sold under names like tomato blossom end rot stopper or something could by your ca source instead of gypsum. It will take %ca and net weight on the ca chloride bottle to give you how much to use to get 27 ppm ca. Cacium nitrate and calcium chloride are much easier to disolve. Cal mag plus lacks beneficial sulfur. Using epsom salts provides this. Tip: Easily disolvable gypsum you may find at a brew your own beer wine store.




.

 

[Verite]

Im with monk.. somethings amiss in that soil mix. Wondering if the 'ish' in 6.5ish means your not using a decent ph meter? A good meter will improve the learning curve on your grows.

 

[clay10]

Ok lockup is what seems to be the consensus

My pH meter is an ebay cheapy, calibrated with a pool ph kit. Unfortunately thats all I can afford at the moment.

It is possible my ph is too high. The tap water i start with is 7.8, so i usually add a tsp of vinegar per gallon to drop the ph between 6.5 and 7. I've learned this the hard way with my last plants. The the soil runoff typically matches the water im pouring in, so I'm assuming that ph is in the acceptable range. 6.5-7 is what i have previously shot for.

There is not any dolomite lime added to the soil. I'm tentative to add another variable to my ph equation for now.

I also flushed them this past weekend with 6.5 water, I ran a gallon through each.


I've yet to add anything with calcium, and also saw a chart that put calcium's ideal absorbancy ph under 6.5



Sorry, Im kinda thinking out loud, but it seems like i need my ph below 6.5

 

[notjonesinNEmor]

Have you tried putting them back under the 175W light for a few hours to see if they perk back up?

I had a batch of clones a couple of grows back that had rooted and spent a couple of weeks under 150w of CFLs. When I put them under the 400wMH all of the leaves drooped and got that "leathery" look as well. It took about a week for them to harden off. Drove me nuts.

Dunno... Just a thought.

 

[EddieShoestring]

those plants are being, or have been, life threateningly over fertilized-that is the what is causing the plants to look like that-they will need plain water and TLC to recover

good luck
eddie

 

[eugenegreen]

See I'm skeptical about overferting because your leaves don't look burnt; least the tips that is... I would still go with root rot... IMHO

bless

 

[Guest]

I'm with Eugenegreen as I think he hit it on the head.

If this was over fert your leaves would be dark green, leathery and drooping.
If this was under fert your leaves would be light green, tips would begin to brown (from plant consuming them) and the leaves would not droop, as the plant would still be feeding on itself.

Nope, sorry chief but this looks to me a classic sign of watering too often. I did the exact same thing when I began and had the exact same results.

Try this - DO NOTHING. Let em go for a few days and watch em. If you see them start to perk up, it's the watering/dampening. If they dont perk up and begin to droop worse then .... well, I dont believe that's going to happen.

Be careful what else you change right away - worse thing I am guilty of is when I see an issue I change 10 things. Then if the plant responds/doesnt respond, I will honestly have NO idea what was really causing it.

Good luck!

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I'm leaning towards overwatering as well...that soil has alot of bark in it and they pots are slightly oversized.

 

[clay10]

I think it was the calcium. I gave them a small shot of pure blend pro grow because it was the only fert I had that contained calcium. Like magic, growth resumed after a day.

On the over watering, the top 1/2 inch is only the bag soil. It keeps all the perlite from floating to the top. The mix underneath contains 30-40% perlite. I have pretty good air circulation but also warmer temps so the pots seem to dry out pretty fast. I just lift the pot to check.

Thanks everyone. you guys are 2-0, and in usually less than a day!