Curious on how many switched back

[twist1uc]

Sorry but, stupidity and ignorance is annoying and so are people who troll. But by far the members on the very bottom of the pile are the ones who offer nothing but want threads closed because they cant cope with a heated discussion. Dismal effort.

I can take a heated discussion, however this is far from a {productive} discussion. Furthermore implying that I offer nothing because I asked for this senseless argument to be locked only indicates how far off base you are with intelligent conversation and communication. This thread is VERY far from educational or productive. If you see it differently, I'd like to smoke some of the shit you're rolling up.

Unfortunately, this damn thread is highlited in the "My posts" page and I all but can't help to avoid it.

Dismal effort? You're laughable. Your effort to feel like an internet bad-ass is rather dismal.

I'm here to learn. Period.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

There's nothing conclusive about this thread other than one thing - That the difference between the two styles in terms of productivity is at best inconclusive.

This thread ran a month and a half and minus u, dr fever said one person switched back. 1
How is this not conclusive to the question he was asking? I mean if he had 30 plus people say they switched back I would say his question would have answered that quite a few didn't like vert and went back. But when the conclusions don't match what u believe u discount them.

Ive grown a ton of flat grows for 10 plus years and vert for a few. I average 30% more than I used to. I know I have 3 more years of experience now. But that percent increase has me sold.

All the rest of what u wrote was just, dial in whatever u do to get the most out of it. While good advice this is just common sense.

The one thing that really sold me on the potential for vert to yield more is that u can get more canopy in the best grow zone around the light. How can you debate that. Really that is the core of why vert and horiz. are different and vert can outyield it.

I don't want to hear plant numbers, veg time, or any other grow philosophy or dialing comments, as they apply equally to flat or vert, just depends on everybodys different situations. This goes into common sense, do what works best for u. (no shit)

U can get more surface area of canopy going vert period. the rest of this shit is just hot air.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

I'm loving this thread tbh. Pretty much is inspiring me to set up one of my lights horizontally with the other one vertically to see what kind of difference I get yield-wise.

To me a thread like this separates the talkers from the walkers. I'm kinda surprised to not be seeing more vert growers on here showing pics of them killing it with the numbers cause I had always thought vert was known to be superior. But after this thread I'm not so sure anymore. The only person really backing up their claims with pics instead of words is the OP.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I'm loving this thread tbh. Pretty much is inspiring me to set up one of my lights horizontally with the other one vertically to see what kind of difference I get yield-wise.

To me a thread like this separates the talkers from the walkers. I'm kinda surprised to not be seeing more vert growers on here showing pics of them killing it with the numbers cause I had always thought vert was known to be superior. But after this thread I'm not so sure anymore. The only person really backing up their claims with pics instead of words is the OP.

what do those pics prove scrappy. that he grows pretty good. I agree. But it proves nothing for vert vs flat. How do u account for the one main thing. more canopy area around vert bulbs. or more metal reflector around flat bulbs. Reflector doesn't smoke so good, id rather it be a plant.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

Yeah I agree the superior canopy coverage should increase the yield which is why I went vert years ago. But that's also why I'd expect to be seeing pics of vert blowing away horiz. I know a pic is not definitive proof but it also can show a lot. I've gotten pretty good at judging yield of a plant from how it looks while alive.

But yeah I can't account for anything as far as canopy coverage or any theory or speculation one way or the other. Horizontal has less canopy but more intense light so it could be argued either way. I just see lots of arguing and not a lot of pics to back up claims. That's why I wanna see for myself which really is the only way to know for sure.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

Yeah I agree the superior canopy coverage should increase the yield which is why I went vert years ago. But that's also why I'd expect to be seeing pics of vert blowing away horiz. I know a pic is not definitive proof but it also can show a lot. I've gotten pretty good at judging yield of a plant from how it looks while alive.

But yeah I can't account for anything as far as canopy coverage or any theory or speculation one way or the other. Horizontal has less canopy but more intense light so it could be argued either way. I just see lots of arguing and not a lot of pics to back up claims. That's why I wanna see for myself which really is the only way to know for sure.

Well I would say that pics are nice to look at and can help u get a better idea, but I been doing this around 15 years and I suck at guessing weights on plants.

The funny thing is I believe nothing other people say to be definitive, if I wanna know, I do it myself.

I don't care about ur pics scrappy, just ur thoughts. Did vert increase ur yields or decrease them? Have u given ample time to dial in ur vert compared to the time u dialed in ur horiz. These are the things we have to do as individuals to truly know the answers we are seeking. The rest of this bullshit is just papa, dr fever, and me arguing pointless bullshit.

 

[Scrappy-doo]

I can't give an accurate assessment on the two. I went from horizontal hydro to vertical coco, both run perpetual and not really tracking #'s. I'd say I yielded a little more horizontal but again I was doing hydro and went to hand watered coco so it's not really fair to compare. I'm in organic soil now and at a new spot, and won't be running perpetual so now I can get a pretty good comparison.

At this point I'd say I have my vert technique pretty well dialed and been doing it longer than I did horizontal for. It's been 5+ years since I've done a flat grow but I'm sure it'll come back to me pretty quickly. Never tracked #s so I have no idea what my gpw is currently.

So it'll be interesting to see what I can pull but like I said I'm not really all about gpw's I'm all about variety and hunting for gold and I'm running tons of different strains so it's gonna be a rough comparison, but of course I want to get the most out of my garden. After a few runs it should be pretty clear which is more productive.

I'm pretty neutral on the issue so not really biased one way or the other. Mostly just curious.

 

[papaduc]

MM, can you not see how this:

But when the conclusions don't match what u believe u discount them.

Contradicts this:

I don't want to hear plant numbers, veg time, or any other grow philosophy or dialing comments

This is what you believe. This black and white, crude observation...

U can get more surface area of canopy going vert period

That is not true. In fact I'd say it's complete bullshit.

You might START OUT with more surface area.. i.e walls.... But whether you "get" or finish with more area is another matter entirely and depends upon training to maximise that surface area as well as the growth characteristics of the plant itself.

If it didn't... and this is a fact which I can only hope will become part of your basic maths... If it didn't... then the yield of every vertical grower would reflect the simple equation of more surface = more yield.

And if the veg times and training aspects of growing were exactly the same for vert as horizontal, then every vert grower who put in the exact same time to training and vegging their plants, would yield more by the equivalent of however much more canopy space they had

But they don't, do they MM?

You've come up with no real reason why these advantages do NOT reflect in final yield. What you have done a lot of is reciting the old cliche about canopy area.

You still haven't explained your theory as to why it doesn't reflect in results.

You've come from nowhere with claims that you're doing 1.5gpw with 2 plants grown to 4 foot under fluorescent lights, and flipped...

You say pictures don't matter... but in explaining how you do that, they matter A LOT.. a hell of a lot... They give insight into everything you say, and they give valuable direction to people looking to follow your methods. Without them, sites like this would be pointless.

No matter how useless you say you are at judging yield from pictures, when you see pictures like this

And then this

Does it not give you a good gauge as to what kind of yield that canopy might have pulled?

I took that second picture to give some idea of how the buds filled in. Ironically those pictures are from the same thread I argued with Dr.Fever. I showed them because that is the very back corner of the canopy, and that bud is a foot tall... If you gauge the weight of that bud, then you look at the canopy, I'd like to think it gives you an idea of how that grow yielded. And I think it does.

So thank people like Dr.Fever, because for all his bullshit, he substantiates it with some real validation. You can tell that, whatever other shit he chats, those canopies are touching if not beating a gpw, and when it comes down to it, that's all that matters.

Are your canopies doing 1.5gpw vegged under fluoro lights? .... pshhh... who even knows... which means your contribution to the thread is nothing.

You say it's about what we think... it's not.. it's about what we know, and we only know by experience and trial. What we think mattered 5 years ago when people were starting out their vert grows... what was theory then is result now... what your ideas are doesn't matter. The whole canopy area stuff is old news now. It's conclusive that it's not relating to actual hands on growing like that.

Until you can show us that it is, that's how it will stay.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

"we only know by experience and trial" by papaduc

I agree. See we agree on something papaduc.

Nice pics, it proves they are pretty.

"Does it not give you a good gauge as to what kind of yield that canopy might have pulled?"

No sir, I don't understand how u can say this. How can u tell yield by a pic, u must have magical digi scale eyes, that measure wet weight and convert it.

 

[papaduc]

Nice pics, it proves they are pretty.

It also proves they filled in from top to bottom. It was my argument in the defoliation thread.

No sir, I don't understand how u can say this. How can u tell yield by a pic, u must have magical digi scale eyes, that measure wet weight and convert it.

Question. The bud in that pic.. could it be less than 6g when dried?

 

[Miraculous Meds]

My guess would be no, it prob wouldn't be less than 6g, but its just a guess. Im not questioning ur efforts or achievements. I just happen to believe u can get more canopy around a vert light. I understand u don't agree. Nothing is going to change our minds, so lets leave it at that and let people draw their own conclusions from their own experiences.

 

[papaduc]

Or let them draw their own conclusions by having a look at your buds

Your guess is right btw.

 

[Miraculous Meds]

.

 

[papaduc]

I have never ridiculed anyone's buds on this website. I have no plans on changing that.

Dr.Fever on the other hand....

 

[Miraculous Meds]

I have never ridiculed anyone's buds on this website. I have no plans on changing that.

Dr.Fever on the other hand....

Sorry I mix u two up sometimes. Ur not the same guy? just kidding

 

[papaduc]

I don't think anyone's personality's that split



In the end.. it's only some plants. If we can't let it fire straight over our different growing methods, wtf is the world coming to

 

[siftedunity]

I can take a heated discussion, however this is far from a {productive} discussion. Furthermore implying that I offer nothing because I asked for this senseless argument to be locked only indicates how far off base you are with intelligent conversation and communication. This thread is VERY far from educational or productive. If you see it differently, I'd like to smoke some of the shit you're rolling up.

Unfortunately, this damn thread is highlited in the "My posts" page and I all but can't help to avoid it.

Dismal effort? You're laughable. Your effort to feel like an internet bad-ass is rather dismal.

I'm here to learn. Period.

Im here to learn too.. hence why I don't call for threads to be closed when I don't agree with the content.

As for the badass thing, I hardly muscled in on your post, im a badass in real life not online lets not hit below the belt and start having a silly argument about intelligence or intellect.


btw.. if you stopped posting on this thread (which you hate so much) it wouldn't appear on your posts page.
this site is what you make of it. if you don't like it, avoid it, im hoping someone will post some amazing vertical grow pics. im sure the mods will close it if appropriate.

 

[0%ppMedZ]

From personal experience, vert is the way to go for small grows wanting to utilize every square inch. You just got to keep all your growing parameters in check and I guarantee you, you will be happy, but who am I, check it out for yourself. Can someone pm the steps to upload

 

[Miraculous Meds]

U got to wait 1 week and 50 posts to pm. As I have asked several people how to upload, I will pass on whats been shared with me. Give me a min and ill come back and edit/ update this post, I gotta read my notes on it.

For the pictures...you click on your user name - which takes you to your main profile page:


Then look across the top links and click "my ablums"


Then from that link...on the bottom left should be a button for "Create new album"..

Click that and follow the instructions to make a folder to store images in.

Once you've made the album - there will be a button in the top left corner for uploading images.

Click that...and you can upload 5 at a time from where ever you have them stored on you PC.

Just make sure the strip and meta data off the images before uploading if they are below 1200x1200 resolution. If they are bigger than that, ICmag will automatically resize them - and then will also strip meta data automatically when resized.

This is courtesy of dank frank. Big thanks to him and the other brothers that offered their help.

 

[papaduc]

So... Now you know it, show it