Could This work - 400w HPS in an Ikea Dresser Sketchup

[iceman1027]

Hey all. I am almost done my first grow with this 400w HPS and realized that I would like to shift the grow from its current crawl space location to an easier accessible but more stealth and self-contained cabinet.

I want it to an all-in-one system where I can root and veg clones and flower as well, so two seperate chambers in one cab.

I also want to restrict size to normal furniture dimensions to increase stealth.

I have been eyeing this chest of drawers:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40053930

Product dimensions
Width: 31 5/8 "
Depth: 19 "
Height: 48 1/4 "

Width: 80 cm
Depth: 48 cm
Height: 123 cm

And i want to turn it into this:

The 400w has a cool tube that goes into the top left chamber which will hold the ballast and the exhaust fan and all other electric/utility.

The squares at the bottom are dark room louvers for intake, will probably need double what i have drawn. I don't know if i should have air flow from flower to veg to utility or have veg in/out a seperate system with just comp fans.

Will it be possible to keep this cab cool with a 400w HPS in flower and about 70w CFL in veg. Will keeping the ballast inside be the deal breaker?

No idead how big of a fan i will need for this, for hoping to get away with the stanley blower mod or something.

 

[Jnugg]

Hey all. I am almost done my first grow with this 400w HPS and realized that I would like to shift the grow from its current crawl space location to an easier accessible but more stealth and self-contained cabinet.

I want it to an all-in-one system where I can root and veg clones and flower as well, so two seperate chambers in one cab.

I also want to restrict size to normal furniture dimensions to increase stealth.

I have been eyeing this chest of drawers:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40053930

Product dimensions
Width: 31 5/8 "
Depth: 19 "
Height: 48 1/4 "

Width: 80 cm
Depth: 48 cm
Height: 123 cm

And i want to turn it into this:

The 400w has a cool tube that goes into the top left chamber which will hold the ballast and the exhaust fan and all other electric/utility.

The squares at the bottom are dark room louvers for intake, will probably need double what i have drawn. I don't know if i should have air flow from flower to veg to utility or have veg in/out a seperate system with just comp fans.

Will it be possible to keep this cab cool with a 400w HPS in flower and about 70w CFL in veg. Will keeping the ballast inside be the deal breaker?

No idea how big of a fan i will need for this, for hoping to get away with the stanley blower mod or something.

If those are the overall measurments you'd be much better off using a 250 rather then a 400w HID.

If I get it straight,without any chamber sepertations this dresser/cab is only 4.17 square feet....with a 400w HID and no seperations in the cab you would have 95-100w/square foot and 11,990 lumens/square foot....that's a bit much man.I don't see you doing a 400w grow sucessfully in that area,especially if wanting an all in one mother/veg/clone and flowering unit.

A 250 might do you but what I need to know are the measurements (L x W x H) for each section (mother/veg/clone,flowering,and utility).


I think you'd be better off with something like this if you want to do it with a 400w HID and keep it all in one.....




Or like this:




You cn check out either of these designs and more over in my "Variety Of Cab Designs" thread......link is in in my sig

 

[iceman1027]

Reworked

Reworked

Ok reworked the entire plan. I saw a 30x20x72 inch cabinet at Casa DePot and decided to try to turn it into this (dropped the 3D work, need to work on my skillz):

I want the blower to pull air into the flower chamber and through the cool tube and also help cool the ballast. i dont know if the air need to be ducted out of the cabinet or if it can flow freely across the ballast and then find its own way out if i leave an opening for it (as shown in the picture).

I am also pondering the idea of sticking a scrubber on the exhaust of the blower and then have the air go over the ballast and out.

The veg side is seperate intake/exhaust system.

Will the air flow as needed in the cabinet as it is drawn?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hey all. I am almost done my first grow with this 400w HPS and realized that I would like to shift the grow from its current crawl space location to an easier accessible but more stealth and self-contained cabinet.

I want it to an all-in-one system where I can root and veg clones and flower as well, so two seperate chambers in one cab.

I also want to restrict size to normal furniture dimensions to increase stealth.

I have been eyeing this chest of drawers:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40053930

Product dimensions
Width: 31 5/8 "
Depth: 19 "
Height: 48 1/4 "

Width: 80 cm
Depth: 48 cm
Height: 123 cm

And i want to turn it into this:

The 400w has a cool tube that goes into the top left chamber which will hold the ballast and the exhaust fan and all other electric/utility.

The squares at the bottom are dark room louvers for intake, will probably need double what i have drawn. I don't know if i should have air flow from flower to veg to utility or have veg in/out a seperate system with just comp fans.

Will it be possible to keep this cab cool with a 400w HPS in flower and about 70w CFL in veg. Will keeping the ballast inside be the deal breaker?

No idead how big of a fan i will need for this, for hoping to get away with the stanley blower mod or something.

I like it. Basically a larger version of what I'm using. I agree with Jnugg, a 400 is a little big for that setup. If your flower chamber is 20" wide, a 150 watter would give you 57 watts per sq foot. If you're set on the 400 (or even a 250) I'd scrap the all in one idea and make it flower only. You can still veg in it if ya want. The Stanley should work fine. I wouldn't use any less than 6" duct if you plan to use a 250. A 400 is pretty much overkill, IMO.

 

[limey]

Agreed with the ^

- use a 250w (ok, I love 250w HPS and am slightly baised) but 400w way too much - problems with heat.

- you need at least 150cm / 5ft (30cm pots + 75 plants + 15cm for reflector and lamp housing + 30cm space between lamp and tops of plants) height space for a practical grow under an HID so you may find it tricky to squeeze in a veg chamber underneath unless you get a 200cm+ height cab.

- it's very easy and cheap to build a separate, tiny tiny cab (check the PC grows designs elsewhere on this site, for example), to put mother plant and cuttings in

- with a 250w you probably dont need a cool tube. Spend the money on getting a really high end reflector, it's worth it ; you can create a coolspace between plants and lamp with a small fan blowing over the bulb (cheap, too!) and this helps move air around you cab anyway

If you need any inspiration, my grow last year (I only do one a year) weighed in at just over 170g primo buds from a 250w in a 50cmx50cmx200cm(tall) wardrobe...

detail here http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2155835#post2155835

... will know about his year's grow soon!

all the best

Limey

 

[iceman1027]

if you look at my last post, you'll see i changed the cab, hows the new design look?

...i already have the 400w and a cool tube for it, so trying to work the rest around it.

 

[limey]

tricky. 30x20 is probably in the right area for a 400w. I used to grow in a 50x30inch floor space with a 400w and, even though I was only actually growing in 40x30inches of that, it was still a bit too deep, without a light rail.

The issue I think you have is with height. 72 inches is, I think, a bit too short, unless you are happy to restrict yourself to v small plants or a scrog set up or similar height controlling technique (which I don't recommend for new grower, if you haven't grown before)

... so I think you'd be better off with a small separate rig for your mothers and clones OR a cabinet to your design but a bit taller. If you have access to good clones you will be tempted to start your grow with them (and I cant blame you) but I am an advocate of growing from seeds, especially when you are setting up a rig. doing so enables you to identify a phenotype that has characteristics that suits your grow space. By all means then clone the best of your girls, set up a mother rig and continue with your own clones.

I would duct the air out of the cab (acoustic ducting will help reduce the noise of the fan) and not over the ballast. One 400w ballast (if it's a good one) will not get too hot and it's important to vent properly, for the sake of the plants. Do make sure you buy a contactor and circuit breaker though. Higher wattage HIDs are dangerous without them and they are not very inexpensive.

If you have any concerns at all about security, I would use a scrubber, though I have to admit that I don't use one personally

hope that helps

Limey

 

[iceman1027]

this will be my second grow and i was planning on scrog this time around. do you think with the training the height will be ok or could still be too low. I could try to put the fan/ballast/wiring and clones on the same shelf i guess.

i really dont want to have to two setups, for security and space reasons, and my biggest concern is that when i started from seed on this current grow i feel like i wasted a lot of energy, time, and grow space raising males for a month until i could sex them. if i can just have a small space to keep clones going i know i would only be working with females. Fem seeds and seeds in general can be expensive.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ok reworked the entire plan. I saw a 30x20x72 inch cabinet at Casa DePot and decided to try to turn it into this (dropped the 3D work, need to work on my skillz):

I want the blower to pull air into the flower chamber and through the cool tube and also help cool the ballast. i dont know if the air need to be ducted out of the cabinet or if it can flow freely across the ballast and then find its own way out if i leave an opening for it (as shown in the picture).

If I understand correctly, you can do it either way.

The only reason I would run a piece of duct from the blower to the outlet is if I didn't want to mount the fan directly to the cab. If I wanted to hang the blower from a bungee, duct would be necessary, IMO.

If you decide to go ductless, the exhaust fan won't generate enough circulation to cool the ballast. The ballast will only get indirect cooling from exhaust. A pc fan blowing on the ballast might offer a little more heat exchange but it's not necessary, IMO. I used thermal glue and clamped a CPU fan and heat sink combo directly on my ballast transformer. Couldn't tell a bit of difference.

I am also pondering the idea of sticking a scrubber on the exhaust of the blower and then have the air go over the ballast and out.

Scrubbers work better on the intake side of the blower. I'm not saying you can't blow air through the scrubber but sucking is much more efficient.

The veg side is seperate intake/exhaust system.

Will the air flow as needed in the cabinet as it is drawn?

It looks like your veg exhaust will feed flower intake. This might cause temps to climb in flower, depending on the type of lighting in veg. I would consider a degree a separation between the two by relocation or a physical baffle (to separate the intake/exhaust airs.)

With the exhaust mounted up top and the intake as low as possible, all you have to do is determine the amount of passive intake you need. Passive intake is usually two times the area of the exhaust. The easiest way to do this is cut three same size holes in the cab. One hole is exhaust and the other two are intake. If you want small intake holes, you'll have to do the math to determine area for it to work best.

this will be my second grow and i was planning on scrog this time around. do you think with the training the height will be ok or could still be too low. I could try to put the fan/ballast/wiring and clones on the same shelf i guess.

All depends on strain type and veg time. If you lamp is fixed, you can always raise the plant(s). An adjustable/removable shelf or even empty pots can get the canopy close to the light.

i really dont want to have to two setups, for security and space reasons, and my biggest concern is that when i started from seed on this current grow i feel like i wasted a lot of energy, time, and grow space raising males for a month until i could sex them. if i can just have a small space to keep clones going i know i would only be working with females. Fem seeds and seeds in general can be expensive.

Practice your cloning skills. You can take a cutting and throw it in flower before the roots develope. It'll sex quicker than waiting for your veg plants to mature.

I'm not sure what your budget is for the project. IMHO, it would pay to consider a smaller lamp or a larger cab. As it stands, a 400 will give you just over 96 watts per square foot. That's almost double the standard 50. It could technically be done but you'd need lots of air and the noise would be considerable. Just my 2c.

EDIT: Forget the sexing clones suggestion. I forgot you're going single chamber only.

 

[limey]

Good response from disco, especially on fans and ventilation.

So, in answer to your question, yes, I thin that design would be fine in height for a scrog, though with 400w lamp AND a CFL rig for mothers and clones beneath, you are going to need a good extractor to get the heat out.

re: seeds and expense of seeds. IMO there are three things an indoor grower shouldn't compromise on:
a good lamp/ballast
a good reflector
good seeds.
It's always worth investing in good seeds! I have only tried Paradise seeds for feminised seeds and they are great. A pack of 5 is only $50, or less....

Limey

 

[iceman1027]

Limey and DB, thanks for the great replies!

Taking into consideration both of your suggestions I think I have come up with the final plan:

the blower will be ducted out but not ducted directly to the cool tube, so the blower will be taking air from flower into the utility and then out.

With this plan I can:

Utilize more of the height
Use the fan to cool ballast and bulb
Be pulling through the scrubber not pushing
have scrubber inside the cab
Still have a small veg area
Have a much easier construction process

The main downfall is in this design is that i had to reorient the bulb, so its not in its most efficient orientation. but i think the pros outweigh the cons.


I'll keep the screen and a shelf removable so i can get smaller plants closer to the lamp if i need to.

 

[iceman1027]

bump. can you guys critique my latest design in the post above?

the ballast is magnetic, gets hot, potential deal breaker?

i think im going to have to just try it out and test the temps.