considering a switch to flood and drain

[lr3]

i've got 2 indoor coco grows (hand watered) under my belt and am considering switching to flood and drain. it seems like the next step would be to get a 3x3 flood and drain table. i'd like to keep with coco (may need to add mesh to prevent bits of coco from clogging the drain/pump). does anyone have any experience with flood and drain using coco. just seems like i should stick with the medium i've been using, though it may not be the optimal for flood and drain.

any comments or suggestions are welcome.

lr3

 

[its trypp]

If memory serves me you want to stay away from any moisture retaining medium, else you are going to rot out the roots of your crop. I would say for flood and drain, use clay pebbles. they will dry out very fast to aerate your roots in between floodings.

If I am wrong, any more experienced grower is welcome to input

 

[lr3]

If memory serves me you want to stay away from any moisture retaining medium, else you are going to rot out the roots of your crop. I would say for flood and drain, use clay pebbles. they will dry out very fast to aerate your roots in between floodings.

If I am wrong, any more experienced grower is welcome to input

from what i have read, you can do flood and drain with any medium, including coco or even soil. i believe that this is the case since with each flood and drain cycle--the medium is purged of stale air and new, oxygen rich air replaces it therefore helping avoid the potential for root rot. the main issue that i have read regarding coco and flood and drain is more an issue with the small particles of coco getting into everything and possibly messing with the pump or clogging the drain. i know of people who do flood and drain with rockwood, and some that use clay pebbles. the reason why i'd like to stick with coco is that i have a couple of coco grows under my belt now, and rather than deal with the nuances of a new grow media, sticking with what i know seems to be the least risky. main objective is to increase plant growth/yield over hand watering as well as reduce the amount of fussing with draining run-off from pot saucers--and hopefully having a cleaner, easier to maintain grow space.

 

[its trypp]

Fair enough, as I said I am not 100% on my statement, but that was my understanding of why most people use clay pebbles for it. Honestly, since clay pebbles are inert and don't react to nutrients, it might be easier for you to maintain a perfect balance of nutrients for your grow, plus, pleeeennnnty of oxygen. Thats personal opinion though, for a FaD grow.

I use coco as well btw, and love it. the only different thing I am doing next grow is adding a mixture of vermiculite to it to make it even more airy lol. Good luck!

 

[lr3]

do you mean perlite? i use a premade mix of coco and perlite.

i agree that clay pebbles may be the better way to go in the long run, but it is an entirely new method and much less tolerant of newbie mistakes. that is my primary reason for wanting to run flood and drain with coco, as coco is much more forgiving than clay pebbles or rockwood.

 

[its trypp]

It might just be me, but I am more of a dive in and do it type of person lol. I do my research, don't get me wrong, but if I want to try a new method then I try it instead of staying with the tried methods. It motivates me to pay closer attention to what I am doing and helps me learn faster. I will admit, it could mess up a harvest for you, but it could also immensely help your harvest.

and I meant a mixture of vermiculite and perlite >.<! But I am also debating on doing a full rock wool grow. we will see ^_^

 

[lr3]

vermiculite holds water. perlite is good for drainage.

finally getting okay yields with coco so hate to rock the boat too much as need the meds and a lost crop would mean 3 mos of high cost dispensary purchases.

 

[lr3]

i'll probably do a trial run of any new method--on a small scale, alongside the normal coco grow. that way, if anything goes awry i'd still have the coco grow.

 

[TBug]

high there! imo...ive never understood the advantage of a flood and drain table. coco or even grow rocks will build up salts and need to be flushed from the top. as well as the added evaporation from the overall concept seems counterproductive to me. making a simple distribution system and recirculating back to the rez is much more efficient in my experience.(especially if yer only doing a few plants) people do well with flood/drain i know..just don't see an advantage to it.
hope that helps ..lol
peace

 

[rangergord]

I switched from peat and coco based soils to flood and drain 2 years ago. For a 3 x 3 or 2 x 4 area it is an excellent fit. A 15-20 gallon rez works well for this size of flood tray. There is a lot of flexibility in the system. You can add or take out pots as needed. Controlling salt levels is a breeze and flushing is easy. I like the expanded clay balls because they are impossible to overwater. You can use rockwool cubes, rapid rooter plugs or even 2-3 inch pots with coco or peat soils to start your plants and transplant into hydroton. Because I grow in a dry climate the humidity from the flooding gives me much faster growth in early veg.

 

[rangergord]

Here is a photo of some Sweet Skunk seedlings just 14 days old in rockwool cubes and hydroton. Running lucas formula with GH Maxibloom. Grown with 250 watts of MH light.

I found the transition from soil to flood and drain to be relatively easy. The increased growth and production made me wish I had done it many years ago.

 

[lr3]

I switched from peat and coco based soils to flood and drain 2 years ago. For a 3 x 3 or 2 x 4 area it is an excellent fit. A 15-20 gallon rez works well for this size of flood tray. There is a lot of flexibility in the system. You can add or take out pots as needed. Controlling salt levels is a breeze and flushing is easy. I like the expanded clay balls because they are impossible to overwater. You can use rockwool cubes, rapid rooter plugs or even 2-3 inch pots with coco or peat soils to start your plants and transplant into hydroton. Because I grow in a dry climate the humidity from the flooding gives me much faster growth in early veg.

it seems like with each flood, most of the salts would get dissovled and washed away or at least kept in check with coco in flood and drain.

out of curiosity, how much better were your yields when you moved to flood and drain with hydron? it seems like one of the better flood and drain options available. i'd maybe add some lava rock to hold a little water.

i'd really like to just go DWC in buckets but am concerned about root issues (rot, brown algae, etc.).

 

[rangergord]

With flooding salts never build up in the first place and with every flood dissolved oxygen levels go up. I also have an air pump in my reservoir. No need to worry about lack of water. If plants are thirsty just increase the number of flood cycles. I have one every 2-4 hours and had amazing growth with a flood every hour. Really all you need is a small amount of medium to start seeds or clones in and then transplant directly into the hydroton.

I think DWC is a good method for smaller clone grows but to me it does not make much sense for seedlings. For example if you had a bunch of seedlings growing all together in a bucket or tub and it came time to throw out the males, you might have a tangled mess on your hands.
I started out with flood and drain because it is flexible. With a flood and drain tray I first just placed pots of soil inside and watered by hand. Great way to flush your plants and monitor run off for pH and salt levels. But here is the thing with soil. When you water soil to the run off point, first it is too wet for good plant growth, then over time it gradually dries out to where growth is optimal and then it gets too dry again and you start all over giving the roots to much water. So really in soil your plants only grow well part of the time. Not so in flood and drain. Conditions are always ideal. Lots of water, lots of nutrients or none at all if you are flushing, and lots of oxygen for the roots. The reason DWC has root rot problems is that water absorbs less oxygen as it gets warmer and organisms like algae grow and suck up most of the oxygen. The water warms up easily in DWC. Because my rez is underneath my flood and drain tray it stays cooler, 68-70 F no problem.
A flood and drain tray is also easily adapted to a drip system, aeroponics and aquaponics. Flexibility!

 

[rangergord]

I would say my yields at least doubled over what I got in soil. They would double again if I was using clones but I use seedlings instead because I only grow part time for myself.

 

[Shoots]

Maybe you can try setting up a top drip dtw. I just did a 8 site manifold out of pvc in 2 gallon smartpots and its working out really good. I recently switched to coco dtw from soil and loving it so far.

 

[medicalmj]

Maybe you can try setting up a top drip dtw. I just did a 8 site manifold out of pvc in 2 gallon smartpots and its working out really good. I recently switched to coco dtw from soil and loving it so far.

I'll second that. While E&F will work fine with coco, I don't like the added risk of recirculating the nutes. If I could grow more plants I'd do E&F but with rockwool cubes. Then you can get a cycle timer and flood for a couple minutes once per hour and maximize the system. In coco you'd be flooding far less often and the extra effort and $ probably wouldn't be worth it.

Consider that with dtw you can get at least a couple more feet of head room over an E&F unless you buy/make a controller. And those are not without potential problems. Also, water temps could be an issue with recirculating nutes since the continual contact with roots could breed crap in the res.

I currently do 3 plants per 1k in 10 gal smart pots w coco/perlite (75/25) dtw in a 16 in x 6 ft tray that is on wheels about 6 inches off the ground w a light mover. I have a 55 gal res feeding em with a $15 digi timer(up to 8 on/off cycles). While the veg growth is a bit slower than some hydro set ups I've ran, but overall my net return is the same with a lot less hassle and worry.

 

[mojave green]

flood & drain, rockwool on clay pebbles & perlite

flood & drain, rockwool on clay pebbles & perlite

 

[lr3]

what i'd probably do first, which will allow me to grow into flood and drain later: get a flood tray and use it to drain run off from a drip system. Seems a drip system would be my next logical step from hand watering. that way, i'm working more within my comfort zone, and can choose to switch over to flood and drain when i feel ready.

 

[rangergord]

Good choice! You can't go wrong getting a tray.

 

[lr3]

yes, seems like it would allow me to grow into a flood and drain setup later and have a nice, clean way to drain to waste for a drip-feed set-up.