Coco seedlings problem

[Jonnysact]

Hey family,

this is my first run using Coco. Specifically Botanicaire coco (comes in a brick that you have to tear apart and water to expand).

I've noticed one of my ladies started developing a bit of twisting in the leaves and the new growth looks squished and mutated. I'm guessing some of what I'm experiencing comes down to genetics, however...

What do you guys think? I'm starting to see signs of very light browning (rust spots) making me think it's a deficiency of Mag, but this early in the stage?

They are watered either every morning or every other morning. Love the medium because it's always light and fluffy and water just runs out of it, but what am I doing wrong?

Strain:
White Widdow

Medium:
Botanicare Coco
20% Perlite

Watering:
PH 6.3-6.5 (most recent watering was 6.4 and the runoff was 6.6)
Tap water @ 150 ppm (left out for a few hours) most recent watering was 150 water + 150 Cal Mag = 300ppm Runoff was 400ppm

Nutrients:
Botanicare Cal Mag 2-0-0 @ 100-150ppm

Lights:
2 x Kessil 150w LED - purple

Canopy Temp: 76-79
Night Temps: 70-73
RH: 35-50 (depending on when they were watered)

Images:

The three ladies (2 white widdow and 1 bc big bud )

The problem child:

Thank you all and have a wonderful weekend!

 

[Highcountry]

Your PH is too high for coco. Should be 5.8 - 6

 

[Jonnysact]

Thank you Highcountry.

I will lower my watering PH and see how they fare. I was under the impression that, like my promix, I would get Mag lockout under 6.5.

Question if it's not too much of a side track: Is the difference between the promix I was using (dries in 4 days) and the coco I'm using now (dries in a day or two max) the reason we want a higher ph in the promix and a lower ph in the coco?

 

[wildgrow]

Coco has a neutral ph of 7.0. If you water/feed with a ph of 5.8, the medium will be at around 6.3. As the coco dries, the ph raises.
So, from 'just watered' to 'time to water', the ph will go from 6.3 to 6.7/6.8 - unless you let the medium completely dry out, which you should avoid.

 

[Jonnysact]

Hey wildgrow,

so what does that say about the level I should water at? Should I be aiming for 5.8-6.1 in my watering or try to hit those numbers more with the runoff?

Cheers!

 

[wildgrow]

I feed my coco at 5.7-5.8. Ive never checked runoff. You don't need to check runoff if the input is around 5.8. That's the beauty of coco.

How much calmag are you adding per gal - ml/gal? I add 1 ml/gal.

I have a block of Botanicare coco, but Ive only used Kempf and GH cocos so far. I cant imagine theyre very different. Esp. considering that I rinse all my coco prior to use.


If youre rinsing too, you might need to add 2 ml/gal of calmag for the 1st watering. Some of it gets sequestered by the coco.

 

[chronosync]

My understanding is that a 1-1-1 solution is best for seedlings I've heard people say bloom nutes are good. 300ppm including tap is good at that stage ime. You shouldn't need calmag at this stage unless your tap doesn't have any at all, especially if your nutes have ca/mg.

In coco your input is much more important than runoff readings. From what I gather watching output is more important in peat/promix than it is in coco.

Keep pH 5.8-6.2, 300ppm base nutes, and don't overwater. Worry about runoff later.

Good luck.

 

[MrBungle]

I wish I understood why folks pH their water to feed to a plant in soil/ soil-less.... its a waste of pH adjuster... the only time water pH needs to be adjusted is in hydro, or when you are mixing up your nutes....watering at 5.8 pH does not affect your media (coco) pH... only the balance of Nitrogen (90% NO3 - 10% NH4), and if you add buffers like gypsum, or D-Lime, or soil acidifiers, like aluminum sulfate, will affect your media pH....

They look slightly over watered johnny... pay attention to the weight of the cup... you may have to poke a few more holes at the bottom so the bottom dries out even with the top

 

[Jonnysact]

Thank you guys! Will try what was suggested.

Bungle, these ladies were close to bone dry at every watering.

 

[chronosync]

I just say it because it's so common and oh so easy to at first. Especially in coco. The dynamic is kind of tricky at first and if it's not right it gets ugly.

You've got the right idea. Let them dry but not dry out. Once you have good roots you can feed all day.

 

[Jonnysact]

I feed my coco at 5.7-5.8. Ive never checked runoff. You don't need to check runoff if the input is around 5.8. That's the beauty of coco.

How much calmag are you adding per gal - ml/gal? I add 1 ml/gal.

I have a block of Botanicare coco, but Ive only used Kempf and GH cocos so far. I cant imagine theyre very different. Esp. considering that I rinse all my coco prior to use.


If youre rinsing too, you might need to add 2 ml/gal of calmag for the 1st watering. Some of it gets sequestered by the coco.

I add between 130-150 ppm of Cal Mag per watering. My water is 160ppm, so generally it's around 280-310ppm per watering in total.

 

[Xray Kimono]

Thank you guys! Will try what was suggested.

Bungle, these ladies were close to bone dry at every watering.

Don't let them get bone dry, you will get salt builup... and lockout.... and all sorts of problems...

 

[Jonnysact]

Don't let them get bone dry, you will get salt builup... and lockout.... and all sorts of problems...

Gotcha, thanks! They still have weight to them this morning and are quite damp so I'll wait until tomorrow morning to water em. All of them except for the twisted leaves one are in that "praying" position this morning, so they must have liked the change in ph.

 

[Mikell]

Someone touched on this lightly, but why are you only feeding Ca-Mg?

0.4-0.6 EC of base, better water management and lower pH will turn things around.

I'm not too up on bricks, I'm lazy and do bagged, but giving a good flush with weak feed no matter what the claim on the bag/brick gives more consistent result, IME.

 

[chronosync]

Someone touched on this lightly, but why are you only feeding Ca-Mg?

0.4-0.6 EC of base, better water management and lower pH will turn things around.

I'm not too up on bricks, I'm lazy and do bagged, but giving a good flush with weak feed no matter what the claim on the bag/brick gives more consistent result, IME.

My bag says <0.3ec on it. Do you think I should be charging this for seedlings and clones? My tap is 0.65ec

 

[Jonnysact]

I was under the impression that it was best to begin feeding when the cotyldons start yellowing.

My water averages at 150 ppm. .4 - .6 EC is roughly equal to 280 - 420 (nice). Would this include my water's ppm or should I add an additional 280-420 ppms?

 

[Mikell]

Yeah. It's not the ratio of nutrients so much as the total EC that stresses out and burns plants.


I haven't really popped many seeds in coir, I tend to work with cuts but the same adage (feed when they yellow) applies.


I just prefer to have weak food there when they go looking for it (rooting, germinating).


Plus the clones stay green

My bag says <0.3ec on it. Do you think I should be charging this for seedlings and clones? My tap is 0.65ec

I would, but then I'm pretty anal and never trust factory quality. Some think different. See above.

 

[chronosync]

Thank you for the response Mikell.
0.5ec base nutes in rainwater it is. A simple step. Off to clone something now.

 

[Bongstar420]

Use NPK 2-1-2..not high nitrate either. You keep putting nitrate, your gonna get lockout.

Hey family,

this is my first run using Coco. Specifically Botanicaire coco (comes in a brick that you have to tear apart and water to expand).

I've noticed one of my ladies started developing a bit of twisting in the leaves and the new growth looks squished and mutated. I'm guessing some of what I'm experiencing comes down to genetics, however...

What do you guys think? I'm starting to see signs of very light browning (rust spots) making me think it's a deficiency of Mag, but this early in the stage?

They are watered either every morning or every other morning. Love the medium because it's always light and fluffy and water just runs out of it, but what am I doing wrong?

Strain:
White Widdow

Medium:
Botanicare Coco
20% Perlite

Watering:
PH 6.3-6.5 (most recent watering was 6.4 and the runoff was 6.6)
Tap water @ 150 ppm (left out for a few hours) most recent watering was 150 water + 150 Cal Mag = 300ppm Runoff was 400ppm

Nutrients:
Botanicare Cal Mag 2-0-0 @ 100-150ppm

Lights:
2 x Kessil 150w LED - purple

Canopy Temp: 76-79
Night Temps: 70-73
RH: 35-50 (depending on when they were watered)

Images:

The three ladies (2 white widdow and 1 bc big bud )

View Image


The problem child:

View Image

Thank you all and have a wonderful weekend!

 

[chronosync]

One month, exactly. Sprouted 5/16/16
Coco charged 250ppm cocotek grow + bloom
Currently 0.8ec grow (420ppm)
Seedlings were babied and fed very carefully small amounts as needed, bottom fed at first, no sudden jump in feed until now. They are on adult dose now and will soon be treated like all the other adult plants. I swear to God I just saw them grow, they are praying pretty hard I hope it's a good thing!



*edit*
6/24/16
And today apparently they were ready