Coco PH remedy

[smurfin'herb]

Hello. I am currently @ wk3 flower in bcuzz coco with 20% hydroton handwatering. I water every 3 days after feeding for the first 2 weeks of flower, and then every 2 days from week 3 on. Every time i water or feed with 5.5-6.0ph r/o i get a runoff anywhere from 6.5 to 7.0ph. I even see this after i have flushed several gallons of 6.0ph r/o thru the pots! I would figure that my runoff would be 6.0ph after flushing down to under 100ppm's, but thats not the case, its still remains at 6.5! i think its the cause of my potassium deficiency.
My nutes and supps last feed were....
120ppm cal-mag
650ppm Connoseur
1 1/2 ts/gal sweet leaf
1/2tsp/gal silica blast
1 tsp/gal F-1 fulvic acid (grandma enggys)
3/4 tsp/gal carbo-load
1/4 tsp/gal pk 9/18 (advanced nutrients hammerhead)
2tsp/gal Liquid Karma
1 1/2 tsp/gal Hygrozyme
all in r/o water ph'ed to 5.8-6.0 after mixing and had a total of 1030ppm's before application. The post runoff was around 6.0 and 760 ppms ( i dont know why the runoff of a 1030ppm nute solution would come out the bottom of the pot as 760?). Then, 3 days later i use plain r/o water at 6.0ph and get a runoff at 6.5-7.0 again! Then i get pissed off and i flush a shitload of 6.0ph r/o thru them and still get a 6.5 or higher runoff ph!!! It just doesnt change! Can anyone fill me in on whats happening and how i can fix it and stabilize my ph? thank you!

 

[smurfin'herb]

Whoaaaa now!... Dont everybody jump at once!!! lol

 

[Merman]

I have the same problem with my Ebb and Flow system... no matter what adjustment I make to the solution pH, it returns 6.8 to 7.0. The plants don't seem to suffer for it, though my Nitrogen uptake is not what it should be (very light green foliage).

This my first run with coco and there's not a lot of references out there for E&F....

 

[wafflehouselove]

if your ph rises that high and your using RO water, it maybe some living organism in your system that is making the ph jump.

 

[smurfin'herb]

i use hydroguard and plant success mychorrizae,trichoderma etc... could that be it? i heard beneficials make the plant able to uptake nutes in a wider range of ph...anyone heard of that? im always worried since i water so much, that they get washed out, i hope not!

 

[BlindDate]

You cannot measure the runoff from coco as if it were Hydroton or something. Canna has a complex procedure for it. If you feel the need, go to their website. But who cares really? Why would anyone want to reuse the runoff? Coco is meant for drain to waste. I can't imagine any benefit for reuse.

My nutes and supps last feed were....
120ppm cal-mag
650ppm Connoseur
1 1/2 ts/gal sweet leaf
1/2tsp/gal silica blast
1 tsp/gal F-1 fulvic acid (grandma enggys)
3/4 tsp/gal carbo-load
1/4 tsp/gal pk 9/18 (advanced nutrients hammerhead)
2tsp/gal Liquid Karma
1 1/2 tsp/gal Hygrozyme

WTF!! Who could begin to sort this mess? Get rid of all that crap and your "problem" will probably go away.

 

[word]

You cannot measure the runoff from coco as if it were Hydroton or something. Canna has a complex procedure for it. If you feel the need, go to their website. But who cares really? Why would anyone want to reuse the runoff? Coco is meant for drain to waste. I can't imagine any benefit for reuse.



WTF!! Who could begin to sort this mess? Get rid of all that crap and your "problem" will probably go away.

After running e&f in coco for 2 cycles ive come to the same conclusion...

feed to waste is the best way to go... the runoff is not as concerning due to the fact that coco has the ability to somewhat correct itself... like just moving ur hand over a flame rather than sticking it right under for a minute, u feel it but not to that extreme..

So, i now run a top feed drip from a rez of clean feed that waste/flows into a dirty rez

 

[Guest 18340]

Did you thoroughly rinse the hydroton before you mixed into your coco?

 

[smurfin'herb]

yep i rinsed. If i dont measure runoff, then how am i supposed to know what the ph goes to from the last time i watered or fed until the next feed/water?

 

[word]

Did you thoroughly rinse the hydroton before you mixed into your coco?

Next time use the coco chunks instead of the clay pellets.... im sure that has something to do with it..

 

[smurfin'herb]

You cannot measure the runoff from coco as if it were Hydroton or something. Canna has a complex procedure for it. If you feel the need, go to their website. But who cares really? Why would anyone want to reuse the runoff? Coco is meant for drain to waste. I can't imagine any benefit for reuse.



WTF!! Who could begin to sort this mess? Get rid of all that crap and your "problem" will probably go away.

get rid of it?!!! i use carbo load and sweet leaf so the plant doesnt have to watse time making this stuff, and then i add the fulvic to help uptake with the previous 2 additives, i use silica because temps can get up to the low 80's in my room and it helps prevent stress while insuring strong cell walls to hold up budz. I use Liquid Karma for the vitamins and humic acid etc.. (and just cause its all around a good product). I add pk9/18 at 1/4strength at wk2 on. I use hygrozyme, just cause i have to keep a clean medium. I was actually wonderin if u even need a pk booster in coco since it already contains a good amount of P and K...anyone?

So if i get rid of the carbs, the plant has to work harder to make them itself and will produce less. I read in maximum yield that when using sugary supplements, it is good to complement them with a carbon based fulvic acid, so i do. If i take out the silica, then my plants will stress out in 84-85 temps and in turn produce less. Hygrozyme..well lets just say thats not an additive causing my problem. I could take out the Liquid Karma, but i dont think anyone on this site would agree with that choice. Pk boosters are supposed to be added at the onset of flowers so i use it then, and only at 1/4 strength.

So ur tellin i have to decrease yield by ridding my additives to correct the ph?

 

[yukino_asano]

ph going up is good the plants are feeding and growing.

you can use hydrozyme 1x a month to save you some $$/

pk booster helps.

Watering with ph'd nutes or water will help to stabilize ph.

Since your putting in the proper ph's liquids that will get it in the proper range.

Main thing is to make sure your EC/TDS/PPM does not go through the roof.

You may not need to remove additives. (can do my test below to see)

For many less is more so they do not like to use additives.

How is the res?? is its ph stable?

here is another technique. (in case your res isnt ph stable, will help to determine if additives are effecting ph)

mix calmag and conni feed
next feed
calmag and additives

In case you were not aware, you can use silica for ph up and fulvic for ph down.

those additives can effect ph.

 

[smurfin'herb]

thx yukino. so your saying i should feed them with connie and calmag, then when it comes time for the next feed, i should use only calmag and additives? this would offsett my feed program because it would skip a week of feeding, not too mention the lack of main NPK nutrients. Is there something im missing here?

 

[BlindDate]

If i dont measure runoff, then how am i supposed to know what the ph goes to from the last time i watered or fed until the next feed/water?

Drain to waste 10% and don't worry about the ph. You don't have a ph problem.

I water every 3 days after feeding for the first 2 weeks of flower, and then every 2 days from week 3 on. Every time i water or feed with 5.5-6.0ph r/o i get a runoff anywhere from 6.5 to 7.0ph.

Coco is not dirt. You need to run nutes through the coco every single time. There is no watering AND feeding with coco.

Never try to correct an environment problem by dumping something into the nutes.

btw----Why do you mix Hydroton into your coco 20%? All you've done is decrease the pot size by 20% and therefor the root area.

Next time use the coco chunks instead of the clay pellets.... im sure that has something to do with it..

Hydroton is completely inert. It has NOTHING to do with it.

 

[Guest 18340]

BlindDate,ineret or not It is a well known fact that Hydroton needs to be rinsed thoroughly before use otherwise it can causes ph fluctuation. I dont know WHY it happens but it does. Since he says he rinsed off the hydroton then thats probably not his problem, but unwashed hydroton will cause ph fluctuation.

 

[Harry Gypsna]

i hope this isnt an inherant issue with the Bcuzz coco brand.... thats what Ive got and am finally planting in tonight after much waiting and putting off due to unexpected workmen and a blocked sewer drain....
when I grow in hydro i use my normal A=B nutrient, sillica, the same brand bloom booster at the correct time, a root stim for the 1st couple of weeks, and cannazym and benficials sometimes-sometimes not.
for this 1st coco run i intend to ditch all the extraneousstuff and just use the basic nutrient-and maybe do 1 plant with booster and one without-for this 1st try...but Im not going into it with all the same aditives as usual as im learning something new again so dont want to make it so complicated... It really does sound like ur mixing up a lot of bottles....

 

[smurfin'herb]

blinddate, I have notice with the veg tim that i allow, by the end of flower in 2gal bags my plants arent even rootbound, so i mix hydroton so the medium will be more pourous and dry out more often, so that i can feed once every 7 days and water 2 times in between feedings.

 

[KissOfDeath]

I have to chime in and agree with BlindDate and suggest feeding every time you water. Roots don't like fluctuating ppms.

As long as you're not overfeeding and you water to an adequate runoff each time, nutrient buildup will not be a problem.

 

[smurfin'herb]

they need watered every 3 days, so feed full strength 2x a week?

 

[KissOfDeath]

they need watered every 3 days, so feed full strength 2x a week?

I didn't see what ec you're running, so you may need to adjust your nutrient solution a bit - not sure what "full strength" is. :wink:

But yes I'd feed with every watering.