Co2 Injection and Room Sealing Questions

[DiscoBiscuits]

I have done some research but still have a few questions. I would like to know in detail what everyone uses to seal a bedroom. How often does the Co2 need to be replaced and the air need to be vented if temps are kept all good with air cooled hoods being vented on fresh air out a window and vented out into attic and a swamp cooler used to keep the room cool if temps happen to rise?

What are the tips and tricks for sealing a room? Does no intake need to be made for when the air is exhausted? Am I missing something because where does air get drawn back in the room from if it is totally sealed? I feel stupid for asking this but need it answered so thanks guys!

I really want to do this right and any help and suggestions from you CO2 supplementers would be awesome. Going to use bottle injection with a controller and maybe a sensor as well. I am use to the old style of growing with constantly venting air so if someone can explain the sealing and how often air needs to be recycled I would be most appreciative!!!

 

[Aaronponic]

Well if you are going to totally seal your room then I would imagine you would want to control temps using AC of some sort, and humidity either with the same AC unit, or a dehumidifier on its own. Then if you are pumping in CO2 you don't really have to exchange the air in your room per se.


If you are exchanging air to control your environment then you will want to pull from high and far away from your CO2 source, and understand that fresh air pulled in will diminish your CO2 faster.

I have a room that uses tanked CO2 with intake/exhaust fans to control the environment, a 20lbs tank lasts me close to 2 weeks.

 

[FullMetalJacket]

Where to begin...

Option 1 - In a truely closed room you need never exhaust or intake. You have an AC and a dehumidfier. Well an AC does humidify, i would get seperate units. I have found using an AC as my humidity control lowers my room temps to below 80 and best CO2 temps are over 85(i like 92-95). When the temp gets to a certain point AC kicks off and same for the dehumidifier. The swamp cooler may work, but they will raise your humidity big time and you will then have to remove the added humidity. If you go with a truely closed room you need no intake or exhaust. This has its advantages as far as keeping down noise and smell. In this type set-up you waste no CO2. I had a carbon filter in the room just to filter the air for pathogens, I just ran it like every two hours for 10 minutes and it took air from the room and exhausetd back to the same room.

Option 2 - You dont need a "truely closed" room to use CO2. You can choose only have it "closed" or "sealed" when the CO2 is on and the humidity and temps are in check. When the humidity or temp goes above a set point you exchange the air in the room and the co2 controller will turn off the CO2 until the temp/humidy drops down to the desired levels. Reason being the small amount of air is easier to exchange, no room for AC and dehumidifier and you have little CO2 in the room so you arent wasting much.

I have done both ways in the past and feel it really depends on your room size. If you are going with a cabinet or closet I prefer the second method with an exhaust to control heat humidity. A large room would be harder to control with short exhauset cycles so for large rooms i would go with the "truely closed" enviroment with AC and a dehumidifier.


Either way I would go with a good CO2 controller that does PPM. They may be pricey but they control the CO2, humidity, CO2, and other devices in the unit and actually know which ones to run in tandem based on the enviromental readings. They give you accurate CO2 PPM measurements so you dont need to know how much CO2 to release and how often, it will manage it all for you. I have used two models THE CAP XGC and the Sentenial CPPC-1. The Sentenial is cheaper and has many more features than the CAP. My two favorite features the the CAP does not have are seperate day and night temp/humidity and a remother CO2/temp/hum measuring device so that the main unit can be placed more conveiniently. The Centenial runs like $485 shipped from ebay.

As far as the amount of CO2 you will use it depends on room size and what option above you choose. I chose option 2 for my latest cabinet (in my sig) and have to run the exhaust only 2 times a 12 hour light period to keep humidity in check. My temps stay around 91-92 since i have a cooltube that im moving alot of air through. I have found temps of as high as 95 are good with CO2. I actually prefer them. You can google "CO2 calculato" and it will let you plug in room dimensions, exhauset cycles, PPM etc and it will tell you how long a 20lb tank will last you. For my cabinet (3x2x7) a 20lb tank will last me 320 days if i exhaust hourly(which im not, im doing about 6 hours). 20lb CO2 tank only cost like 20 bones to refill.

Some people go with like baking soda/ vin or CO2 Boost or time release CO2 enrichment. I think if you are going to go CO2 you should do it right so you dont have to fuss with it.

My favorite - For the last two weeks of flower set your PPM at 300 and lower the temps to low 70s if you can, drop humidity to 30 if you can and you will get more resinous buds..

All that being said it really depends on your situation and room size to determine which option is best. For anything bigger than 8 by 8 i would go with option 1. You can google "CGE marijuana" and read more. CGE stands for closed grow enviroment. If you do it right withe the sentenial controler, AC, and dehumidifier you should be able to come in at only around a grand total cost. Well worth it in my opinion. Also if you are doing ebb and flow or DWC you may need a resevoir chiller as well due to the higher temps in the room running CO2.

Good luck man...

 

[DiscoBiscuits]

Thanks for all the helpful advice bro! I have one question what type of AC do you recommend for this type of operation (option 1). I am either going to be sealing a big closet or a room and can vent the 2 lights into an attic space.....I'm going to go google that shit bro really appreciate it!

-DB

 

[DiscoBiscuits]

Also, what types of insulation do you use to make a room inside a room to fully seal and keep it from looking like a goddamn hot box (from heating up the walls of the house) ? Do you use plywood ? Just looking for some insight how to do this so I can start making plans also are these types of insulation available at home depot or something similar or do I need to order it?

Also I see variation in how high to keep the temps with CO2, some say 90 -95 some say that will make buds lose potency so put it to 85? So do you keep it higher in veg and lower in flowering?

I will definately purchase one of those controllers! I want to do this right and have this bitch sealed like a motherfucker!

 

[FullMetalJacket]

AC -

I have always used window AC's as the hotside and cold side are sealed from eachother on many models. Part that sucks is you have to build a box around the hotside unless you have a window in the room. Witha window in the room, defitely go with the window AC. Also portable dual hose AC units may work. Everything i read on them conflicts wheather or not the air intake from the one hose puts any air in the room or just hits the hot side and exits the through the other hose. Portable AC units are more expensive but i think if i had to do it again i would roll with one. If any air does transfer between size it is minimal. I have a portable AC and i dont think the air is passing side to side at all but im afraid to tear and down and look.Also get a dehumidiier. make sure both the AC and dehumidier are manual or have the ability to restart themselvs after a power outage. Because that is essentially what you are doing when controlling it with the sentenial controller.

If you are running your temps 85-90 i wouldnt bother insulating the walls. Even concrete will transfer heat to some degree. If you are worried about your heat sig from LEO, only solution i know of is IR blocking material. I can speak well to it as i have not used it.

I have heard that about temps being 95 lowering potentcy as well. Hell i have heard alot of things. I personally think peopel make shit up so they have something to say that is "revolutionary". I have not seen any evidence of this and everyone that has told me that could not provide any. I have not noticed any reduction in potentcy though with the same strains running 85 vs 95. But my experiments were not completely controlled so take that for what its worth. 85 -90 is a good temp, anything below 85 and your plants arent transpiring enough and you arent taking full advantage of the CO2. If you are sweating it just set your sentenial at 87 . When twmps hit 87 it will kick on the AC and it will take your temps down to 83 and turn off the AC.

I have never used CO2 in veg as i always was told it wouldnt help much and i can't afford to have CO2 in my veg chamber as it is seperate. So someone else would be better qualified to answer that. I think what really makes my bud "more potent" is when i drop the temps/humidity the last few weeks of veg. I know if definitley increases resin. That is another reason why you want a good dehumidifier. If you just use your AC to dehumidify your room will get cold as shit trying to get down to 30-50 humidity.

 

[DiscoBiscuits]

Yeah I don't really understand the AC thing but would a good portable one work or would I have to build a box? and why do you build the box on certain models?

So you just spray foam to insulate all your leaks?

 

[DiscoBiscuits]

Also what does the dual hose do for you ?

 

[FullMetalJacket]

AC units generate more heat than cold in their entirety. If the window AC is in the same room you need to stop the heat form getting into the room. Hence you build a box on the back and use an inline fan to exhaust the box out of the room. If you had a window there is no need for a box as the hot side will be out the window.

If you need an AC box google "DIY AC box grow". Digitlahappy i think had a thread earlier in the last few days with a link to a DIY and some discussion regarding to their set-up.

 

[FullMetalJacket]

Also what does the dual hose do for you ?

A single hose portable AC unit takes air from the room and uses it to cool the heat coil and send it out the hose out the window. There for your are sending out smell and wasting CO2, not to mention some of the cold air you are generating.

In theorey a dual hose, uses one hose to intake air, cool the heat coil and then goes right back out the second hose. This way no smell, or CO2 enriched, cooled internal room air is sent out of the room. With a portable AC no box is needed. Remember though I am not 100% sure that no internal air escaped through the exhaust hose. If it does it is minimal and probably dependent on model.

 

[FullMetalJacket]

Use the search feature to look up "AC" and you will find tons of threads with discussion.

 

[DiscoBiscuits]

K sweet thanks for clearing that up! I plan on starting my next op after the summer...hotter than a bitch here and traveling often. Goddamn I can't wait for this next phase! Thanks for the awesome link for that nice controller for relatively cheap (considering other sites and controllers)!

Yea, I will definately take your advice and get a dehumidifier. So you think that totaly insulating my room (using a bedroom) is not necessary ? A box in a box so to say... You recommend just sealing the shit out of everything but why not a total box in box because I read some do that. I am going to be using 2 600 watt lights so you think that wouldn't generate enough heat into the walls 2 show up as abnormal on an IR?

oThanks FMJ I'll be sure to link you to the journal when I begin this endeavor in early september....