Clones turned yellow can they be saved?

[Guest]

I grew a bagseed that is now a big LST mom. I want to clone her to get a new mom that I can bonsai from the start.
I am using the walmart ice cube tray and vermiculite method of cloning. My first batch didn't turn out well due to having too course of a grade of vermiculite. I got 1 survivor which I put into foxfarms soil and fed some 1/2 strength grow big.

I put 4 more clones in a fine grade vermiculite and walked away. About 7-8 days later we had a death in the family and I didn't get a chance to look at them for 3 days or so. They were mostly yellow. I watered them with some low strength nutes and they stay completely yellow. I figured they were dying so I went to yank them out they had HUGE freaking white roots an inch long. So I put them all in red 16 oz cups and fed them. I guess I let them go too long without feeding them. I guess that it had roots that big I could have removed them several days earlier.

Are these salvageable? They are thick stem clones that were vigorous growers when I cloned them but I am wondering if the nute deficiency permanently stunted or otherwise stressed them. Should I just keep growing them or start with new clones. Does the color come back?

 

[Guest]

i think they are feed them roots...peace

 

[Captain Parker]

Definitely fed - perhaps, overfed and a bit shocked over the whole ordeal. This is the soil forum, so I assuming those 16 0z cups were filled with good soil. Just plant them in your clean soil and then water them - pH'ed water only, nothing else. Flush them out a bit if you over fed them when they were recovering from drying up.

The clean flush should bring them back and get the roots back in action - they have enough nutes absorbed ATM, so no worry about that. Let them balance up and get into the soil and come out of shock. Begin your light feeding schedule (1/4 strength) back up and everything should be good from there.

This is just from what I'm assuming happened from your description and my spacing off my clones experiences. No pics of them up, so I could be wrong. - this is just an assumption by your description given.

 

[Guest]

They weren't in soil yet. They were still in the cloner, and completely yellow. I popped them out of the vermiculite and they had big roots. So then I put the new clones in soil and fed them because I think they are nute deficient. They've never been fed until after I just put them in soil...... and I am only using distilled water at this point.

 

[Captain Parker]

AH, you should be cool then. From the sounds of it, they only got a little neglect and will bounce back up.

 

[Dhor]

maybe they need some nutrients?.. it could be possible

 

[Guest]

Here are a couple images. The group shot shows the clone from the first batch which is green and is root bound already. The 3 new yellow clones. These have double the roots that the older one had when I put her in soil.

The only way it could be nute burn is if I made a mistake when feeding the mom and put some in the cloner res. I doubt it, but that is the only possibility for burn. Can nute def look like this?

 

[TrustNoOne]

yer killin em with kindess.
to wet and too much nutes.
use perlite not vermiculite.
fox farm soil will feed them for at least two weeks minimum
i'd can em
i can't figure out why one is still green though. was it seed from a different bag?

 

[Guest]

The green one is the only clone that survived the first round of clones. I put him in soil and set up 4 new clones. In the 10 days that passed it completely filled the 16oz red cup with thick roots, all the way to the bottom and back up and got a stem as big around as a chopstick. In that same time period 3 of the 4 clones had big roots and were ready to go into soil themselves. So I potted the clones and watered all of the cups. then I took the pic. So they just got watered in that pic.

 

[Captain Parker]

AH, yes.....I see now. Been there, done that -hahahaha

What I did, was clip off the dead/dying leaves - only water, treated them like baby seedlings. They bounced back. My leaves got yellow like that from the cloner - actually getting the leaves wet and they sorta soaked in it. But as I said, clipped them off, left the green and they bounced back.

What you're doing is exactly what I did - same cups too - and they came back.

 

[Climbinghigh]

They weren't in soil yet. They were still in the cloner, and completely yellow. I popped them out of the vermiculite and they had big roots. So then I put the new clones in soil and fed them because I think they are nute deficient. They've never been fed until after I just put them in soil...... and I am only using distilled water at this point.

the fox farm soil has plenty of nutes- and a couple of the green leaves look a little twisted- so just keep up w/ the plain water for now, let em dry out a bit, and they should pull through.

i clone with rapid rooters, and iv'e noticed that the cuttings will yellow from the bottom up when they start to grow roots. As long as the growing parts are still green they put out new leaves once they're rooted. i've also noticed that too much heat will make them yellow(and die) faster.

 

[kovenant]

i believe the reason is, when you add rooting nute to a grow medium for clones (rockwool, vermiculite, or what have you) you supply your clone with a good nute base for about 4-7 days (depending on how long, and if you soaked your material in a good rooting solution for clones - usually done for 24 hrs in a 6 ph rooting solution.) after that solution runs its course and the roots begin to pass through the medium... they are wanting nutes and additives again. the leaves start to turn yellow and some dry up and fall off.

i have the same thing happening with my clones that are showing many roots and still in a grow dome. they are past being ready to transplant. the reason i am forced to hold off is due to the DWC system i will be moving them to - it's not here yet. also, i bought half my clones a week prior to the other. the 2nd group is still green and thriving. the first batch are yellowing, a few look nearly dead. however, i have been toward by quite a few local growers that the reason is what i restated above, and that they bounce back no problem once transplanted and under a good veg lamp with plenty of water and nutes.

the last couple days though the roots on a few are browning slightly. hoping it is not root rot, but them hardening and from lack of water/nutes - i still am keeping them under the dome.

here are my ladies...



1st day i bought my clones (3 weeks ago)



today - week 3 - notice the yellowing and slightly browning roots. good root growth, they should of been transplanted last week.



closer shot of the yellowing. i trimmed off the wilted yellow-whitish leaves. notice the root systems in the background.



still week 3, but these are the clones that are only 1 1/2 weeks old. roots are really coming through and will be prime to transplant when my DWC buckets arrive in 3-5 days.

 

[Guest]

I grew a bagseed that is now a big LST mom. I want to clone her to get a new mom that I can bonsai from the start.
I am using the walmart ice cube tray and vermiculite method of cloning. My first batch didn't turn out well due to having too course of a grade of vermiculite. I got 1 survivor which I put into foxfarms soil and fed some 1/2 strength grow big.

I put 4 more clones in a fine grade vermiculite and walked away. About 7-8 days later we had a death in the family and I didn't get a chance to look at them for 3 days or so. They were mostly yellow. I watered them with some low strength nutes and they stay completely yellow. I figured they were dying so I went to yank them out they had HUGE freaking white roots an inch long. So I put them all in red 16 oz cups and fed them. I guess I let them go too long without feeding them. I guess that it had roots that big I could have removed them several days earlier.


Are these salvageable? They are thick stem clones that were vigorous growers when I cloned them but I am wondering if the nute deficiency permanently stunted or otherwise stressed them. Should I just keep growing them or start with new clones. Does the color come back?

==========================================================

I wrote the walmart cloner thread.....

It looks like you almost have it.....

In the thread I suggested two approaches....

That is at day 6 or 7 pull them and look for roots....

If they have any roots transplant so they have some chow.....

if not check every day or two from there.....

Or leave them in for 10 days or so....

and feed the reservoir at day 6... or so.....

The fine grade vermiculte works better.....

If you notice yellowing.... after 6-8 days....

its normally caused by active rooting.....




http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847

 

[Guest]

==========================================================

I wrote the walmart cloner thread.....

It looks like you almost have it.....

In the thread I suggested two approaches....

That is at day 6 or 7 pull them and look for roots....

If they have any roots transplant so they have some chow.....

if not check every day or two from there.....

Or leave them in for 10 days or so....

and feed the reservoir at day 6... or so.....

The fine grade vermiculte works better.....

If you notice yellowing.... after 6-8 days....

its normally caused by active rooting.....




http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847

I think that would have saved me some of this trouble if I could have been available to check on them around that time and if possible feed them. The fine grade vermiculite is a night and day difference on the roots in the two runs of clones I have done.

 

[Guest]

I think your clones will survive.....

But Its clear you understand that this run was less than ideal........

I first put up a wick cloner on OG....

The results from other people seemed somewhat hit and miss....

I finally figured out it was the vermiculite.......

I try to tell folks use fine vermiculite....


but lord knows why people dont believe me.....

To your credit you figured it out faster than I did......

Verm is completely sterile..... if the plant is rooting/growing they yellow fast......



While I change ids frequently .... if you post the cloner thread I will see it.....

 

[Guest]

+rep I really appreciate the help and for sharing your cloning methods in the other thread. That thread is what got me to join up here.

 

[Guest]

Hey thanks ..... I like hearing that....

Helping one person makes the effort worth it.....

If you would do me a favor....

I presume you will do another run.....

Someone else posting what you did here would be very helpful....

that the difference in your runs using fine grade and course grade are night and day ....

might save someone some grief....

or give up thinking it doesnt work.....

Ive been using a wick method for several years...

and it most certainly works for me....

as the pics in the thread prove......

anyway thanks for the kind words.....

 

[Guest]

Its funny you mention that because I want to do a side by side by side with perlite, large vermiculite, and fine vermiculite to clear up some of the confusion. It looks like it'll be a bit longer though as we're moving.

I started with the coarse grade vermiculite and figured it wouldn't matter. Then I decided right before the first run that I would put it in the blender and make it finer. I blended it and only a small portion got fine. I poured it into the cloner holes and the fine blended vermiculite went in the last hole. When the first round of clones were done, the ones in the coarse vermiculite shriveled and died and the 1 clone in fine vermiculite lived.

The next day I went around to 5 garden centers before I found fine grade horticultural vermiculite. It was actually at a hardware store. The next batch in that is this batch which by the looks of the roots, were ready to go in 7 days.

 

[Guest]

LOL....

NOw I understand why the light bulb went on for you....

with the one surviving clone.....

I get verm at Lowes a huge bag for 12 bucks.... lifetime supply like......

I enjoy experimenting myself....

I managed to find fine grade perlite....
you may need longer stems to be competetive....

and the verm clearly won....

I was somewhat surprised......

In the many runs Ive made....

Ive found some to root at day 5....

And Ive never kept any that root after day 14....

my average is about 7 days......

 

[Guest]

If I understand it correctly, a very important aspect of cloning is the air/moisture ratio for the roots. the fine grade seems to wick just enough water and allow just the right amount of o2 to the roots. So I think a few different medias will work for this method but fine grade just seems to be the most trouble free.