Clone stems getting mushy....

[Tyga]

Don't know what's going on!
Water- Aerated PH'ed tap
Nutes- Liquid clonex @ half recommended dose
Rooting hormone- Clonex gel
PH- 5.6-6.2
Temp- 78.6 Previously...dropped it down to 76.8

Majority of them look healthy! but I've noticed on quite a few of them the bottom of the stem where I took the cut turned slimy like algae like... Thought it was from the rez temp being high (78.6) so I lowered it a tad.... even though I heard 78.6 area is ideal for an aero cloner.
They are sprayed with 5.8 PH water close to every day... day 7 since cutting and no sign's of rooting yet. Any ideas guys? :/ Ran this same setup a few months ago and had 100% success rate.

 

[Green Supreme]

Sounds like damping off. Too bad they stopped making No Damp. Have yet to see a product take its place. Peace GS

 

[Tyga]

Sounds like damping off. Too bad they stopped making No Damp. Have yet to see a product take its place. Peace GS

Never heard of "damping off"... Elaborate?

 

[Green Supreme]

I explained the problem. Please feel free to look it up. Peace GS

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

When you say the cut turned slimy like algae like ...

Is the stem itself firm but covered in slime, or is the epidermis of the stem turned to mush?

If it is the former, you might have a bacterial-cyanobacterial problem that could be cured with erythromycin from the tropical fish store. If the outer stem is turning yellow-brown and easily scraped with a toothpick, then you likely have a fungal problem in the category of "damping off". I'm currently fighting this myself.

I will be trying a very dilute concentration of copper-sulphate in the cloner as an antifungal. It has been suggested to me to try Dutch Master Zone. I'm not sure if it still contains copper-sulphate as I understand that US regulations on this have changed.

You did disinfect your cloner before reusing it didn't you?

 

[Tyga]

Wow some people on this forum are stuck up! Jeesh..
@Crusader- Thanks man... the epidermis of the stem is mushy. But only with some of them? That's why I'm a little confused. I didn't "properly" Disinfect it I guess... I wet a paper towel and scrubbed the shit out of it! then rinsed with water. Figured that would have been good enough... but maybe not? Ive read about people putting bleach and stuff like that in the cloner to sanitize but I guess I didn't think I needed to go to that extent. Guess I'm wrong! Wouldn't that effect all the clones though?

 

[Brother Bear]

So because you are to lazy to look your own information up, "some people on this forum" get labeled as stuck up ?

Rude

The damping off is not the problem here, the real problem is -

I guess I didn't think I needed to go to that extent.

-Stop "thinking"
-Stop "guessing"
-Stop asking other people to do your research and work for you.
-And stop being rude to the people who take time to help you a little bit.


Research
Read
Learn
Practice

 

[greenpinky]

Hey it happens to me when I don't give my unit a good cleanning.. try using a lil bleach and make sure u clean the pump too.... those clones that have a mushie stems will never root... get them out finish ur good clones then clean it really good every two to three runs..(u will see ur suscess rate drop) and to bro bear my search function hasn't worked in months on my phone,computer, I pad..... maybe something to look intoo?

 

[Tyga]

Alright, i don't have a problem looking up and researching things so i think your a little out of line to be calling me "lazy". I just never heard of damping off before and asked him to elaborate on a term ive never heard before? Thats makes me "lazy" okay? Stay out of the thread if your just going to start drama. I'm trying to troubleshoot the reason why my clones are struggling not go back and forth about irrelevent stuff.
So i guess i should have sterilized my cloner thorougly... On a good note 3 of my Hammer Head clones are showing small signs of rooting! Wooo. Not a complete fail i guess

 

[Tyga]

Oof watch me get banned over sticking up for myself ^...

 

[greenpinky]

Ya don't worry about it brother bear is good people... but he was just trying to help u got to remember that.... g.s has a good reason to not want to keep explaining himself.... just chill and be respectfull.......good luck with those hammerheads

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Damping Off is a common scourge of greenhouse operations. Search the internet, not just IC. Once you know the keywords there is untold knowledge at your fingertips.

This pestilence has majorly compromised my growing this past year and a half. Only with sterile techniques and use of chlorine bleach at every stage have I been able to squeak by with enough survivors to keep going. Between every run I leave the cloner with pump operating for a day brim full of bleach solution, sitting in the bathtub.

Evidently bleach isn't always enough. Isopropyl alcohol will do a better job of disinfecting and is better suited for fungus. I was starting to look at antifungals when I was pointed towards Dutch Master Zone. Then a little bit of time reading on the internet and I found the copper-sulphate connection. You can buy the crystals cheap. The stuff is poison so only the tiniest amounts are needed. Obviously I have more reading to do. I bet if my cloner used copper pipe instead of pvc the fungus problem would be reduced.

Usually there are some plants that initially put out roots and survive. Others start to get the yellow-brown mush stems. I test with a toothpick (which is then tossed ) by lightly scraping. With a healthy cutting the pick will bump along the stem. When the infection takes hold, the toothpick will push epidermal mush like a snowplow. Once the infection takes hold in the cloner it is unlikely that any other cuttings will sprout roots. With healthy cuttings the young leaves at the tips keep growing even though older leaves yellow and die. With infected plants the youngest leaves show distress.

Here is my list of cloning threads:

Cloning Threads

All about Bonsai moms/muns
Guest
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31919

By Far THE BEST Rooting Gel, Dip, Powder I Have Ever Used!!
Krunchbubble
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5019742#post5019742

Cell Tray Cloning w/ Perlite
Mr. Bongjangles
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112774

CLONERS_ a collection of various methods
FreezerBoy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=169382

Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link?
Herborizer
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683

cloning…I give up.
macdiesel
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184697

Cloning in Coco Experiment
Dizzlekush
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228490

Cloning in plain water under flouros
Guest
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10827

Cloning with Mycorrihizae
Bunz
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4806874#post4806874

cloning with rapid rooters
T. Baggins
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94105

cloning with rapid rooters
fireman
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5067917#post5067917

Cloning with sphagnum moss
High Country
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=188106

Coco cloning failure continues
MrAwder
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191804&highlight=voodoo

Everything you need to know to get healthy clones!,
Cloning in Aeroponics with Ultra Current
Ultra Current
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226809

DIY Aero Cloner the EZ-Cloner Replica in 10 Easy Steps!
KingRalph
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40055

For the clone-experts: Best commercial setup for moms/clones
Moppel
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228765

Homemade bubble cloner to soil=clones wilting
Holmes Slice
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228727

How I got roots in 6 days.
Slowandeasy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187029

How to Clone
stihgnobevoli
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228176

Let’s clone in dirt, WTF!
High Country
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=214596

NOT ANOTHER CLONING THREAD!
High Country
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=173419

Olivia’s Cloning Gel vs. Miracle Grow Fast Root
Toastfighter2
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224121

Organic Clones in Perlite
moses wellfleet
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224838

Post your DIY Cloner
Bubble Puppy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=93880

Root Riot vs Jiffy pellets (test)
~Shh~
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223152

Taking clones from cut down week old plants
Dankuser
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=232597

Taking clones in late flower, the easy way.
SuperConductor
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143894

Tips & Trix 4 EZ-Cloner usrs. This will put neoprene puck makers out of biz 4 SHO
Lone Wolf
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4886939#post4886939

When cloning…
Crisscross
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=225952

Why are some strains harder to clone than others?
CannaBunkerMan
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219236

World class cloner new at walmart
Mrred
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847&page=23

 

[paladin420]

Try some bleach.10-12 drops in a 30 site cloner. I'm on my phone right now so I can't link well. Advanced search users, ultra current (guest now), sea maiden,

Adv. Search pool shock also.

We all medicate for different reasons.

 

[Tyga]

Try some bleach.10-12 drops in a 30 site cloner. I'm on my phone right now so I can't link well. Advanced search users, ultra current (guest now), sea maiden,

Adv. Search pool shock also.

We all medicate for different reasons.

Thanks man, I assume you mean to run 10-12 drops of bleach pre-cloning to sterilze? Or should I try that now?
And lets clear the air in the room! Lets all chill I understand you guys are sick of noobs coming in the threads with questions like
- Why are my leaves burnt? And not saying there medium,PH,PPM and just expecting you to feed them the magic answer. Or how much will I yield?? <--- That's a classic. I just wasn't familiar with the term, but next time I'll use my trusty friend google.

Here's some pics... You can see in the 1st pic where the stem is firm and where it's all mushy. (The transparent part). But yet in the same cloner some roots starting to shoot out?

 

[greenpinky]

Ya some will be good and some won't in time ur success ratio will go down with no cleaning, your leaves are burnt for a couple of poss. Reasons. I never use liquid clonex, the gel/ power is enough(shit I have cloned with just h2o) and ur clones have no roots so they inturn have no nutes going to them

 

[skullznroses]

I didn't bother to read....

damping off is from it being damp and cold,,, okay???

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

But yet in the same cloner some roots starting to shoot out?
http://i48.tinypic.com/2111las.jpg

With most every epidemic there are survivors.

When it's bad I can lift the lid of the cloner and give it a shake, the infected stems all jiggle. Once you know a cutting's infected get it out of there.

Herborizer has the thread that discusses cloning techniques using chlorine bleach as a prewash for cuttings and pool-shock in the cloner.

I've had some success using Chlorox at 1 1/2 drops per gallon of water in the cloner. Then one drop per gallon once every three days afterwards.

 

[skullznroses]

This bleach is not making "the" difference... Im afraid

This bleach is not making "the" difference... Im afraid

Its your environmental conditions I think Crusader... This bleach overkill thing worries me. Bleach should work well in diluted form.

I would caution you to check your razor blade to make sure it is sterile and sharp when taking soft wood cuttings for mist propagation. No offense Ive worked at a vineyard and a professional nursery where I was paid to take hundreds if not thousands of cuts a day. My bosses always harped about... sharp clean blade, dip in alcohol between plants, clean fast cuts... and enough humidity to get them to day four.

I clone in the dirtiest POS ever, and my success rate is totally driven by correct temp and PH and RH... and not over misting the damn things. Im ussually at 75% at my lowest and Ive had 49/50 clones take in a normal 22" tray with 50 holes in it.

Damping Off is a common scourge of greenhouse operations. Search the internet, not just IC. Once you know the keywords there is untold knowledge at your fingertips.

This pestilence has majorly compromised my growing this past year and a half. Only with sterile techniques and use of chlorine bleach at every stage have I been able to squeak by with enough survivors to keep going. Between every run I leave the cloner with pump operating for a day brim full of bleach solution, sitting in the bathtub.

Evidently bleach isn't always enough. Isopropyl alcohol will do a better job of disinfecting and is better suited for fungus. I was starting to look at antifungals when I was pointed towards Dutch Master Zone. Then a little bit of time reading on the internet and I found the copper-sulphate connection. You can buy the crystals cheap. The stuff is poison so only the tiniest amounts are needed. Obviously I have more reading to do. I bet if my cloner used copper pipe instead of pvc the fungus problem would be reduced.

Usually there are some plants that initially put out roots and survive. Others start to get the yellow-brown mush stems. I test with a toothpick (which is then tossed ) by lightly scraping. With a healthy cutting the pick will bump along the stem. When the infection takes hold, the toothpick will push epidermal mush like a snowplow. Once the infection takes hold in the cloner it is unlikely that any other cuttings will sprout roots. With healthy cuttings the young leaves at the tips keep growing even though older leaves yellow and die. With infected plants the youngest leaves show distress.

Here is my list of cloning threads:

Cloning Threads

All about Bonsai moms/muns
Guest
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31919

By Far THE BEST Rooting Gel, Dip, Powder I Have Ever Used!!
Krunchbubble
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5019742#post5019742

Cell Tray Cloning w/ Perlite
Mr. Bongjangles
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112774

CLONERS_ a collection of various methods
FreezerBoy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=169382

Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link?
Herborizer
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683

cloning…I give up.
macdiesel
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184697

Cloning in Coco Experiment
Dizzlekush
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228490

Cloning in plain water under flouros
Guest
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10827

Cloning with Mycorrihizae
Bunz
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4806874#post4806874

cloning with rapid rooters
T. Baggins
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94105

cloning with rapid rooters
fireman
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5067917#post5067917

Cloning with sphagnum moss
High Country
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=188106

Coco cloning failure continues
MrAwder
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191804&highlight=voodoo

Everything you need to know to get healthy clones!,
Cloning in Aeroponics with Ultra Current
Ultra Current
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226809

DIY Aero Cloner the EZ-Cloner Replica in 10 Easy Steps!
KingRalph
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40055

For the clone-experts: Best commercial setup for moms/clones
Moppel
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228765

Homemade bubble cloner to soil=clones wilting
Holmes Slice
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228727

How I got roots in 6 days.
Slowandeasy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187029

How to Clone
stihgnobevoli
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228176

Let’s clone in dirt, WTF!
High Country
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=214596

NOT ANOTHER CLONING THREAD!
High Country
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=173419

Olivia’s Cloning Gel vs. Miracle Grow Fast Root
Toastfighter2
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224121

Organic Clones in Perlite
moses wellfleet
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224838

Post your DIY Cloner
Bubble Puppy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=93880

Root Riot vs Jiffy pellets (test)
~Shh~
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223152

Taking clones from cut down week old plants
Dankuser
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=232597

Taking clones in late flower, the easy way.
SuperConductor
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143894

Tips & Trix 4 EZ-Cloner usrs. This will put neoprene puck makers out of biz 4 SHO
Lone Wolf
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4886939#post4886939

When cloning…
Crisscross
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=225952

Why are some strains harder to clone than others?
CannaBunkerMan
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219236

World class cloner new at walmart
Mrred
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847&page=23

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

After more than a year of near 100% success, the same room, equipment and techniques slid down to zero. My methods since then have only become more precise. I've little doubt that there is a very virulent and persistent organism in the growing media and on surfaces that is getting to my cuttings.


Edit;

These look good

References

• Copper.org; Copper Sulfate's Role in Agriculture; Preparation of Bordeaux and Burgundy Mixtures on the Farm
• Kondodys; History of Fungicide Development
• Copper.org; Uses of Copper Compounds; Table B--Plant Diseases Amenable to Treatment by Copper Fungicides
• http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/snail/coppersnail.php

I don't know if it's still on the market, but a concentrated solution of copper-sulphate was commonly sold in hardware stores as root killer.

There is the possibility that tossing a piece of copper into the bottom off my cloner could make a difference. (edit: Learned that this doesn't work)

 

[brittlestar]

I've lost a good many seedlings to damping off over time. A fair few clones too. It's a bastard of a thing to deal with.