Clone of a Clone of a... Degredation Experiment

[Weed-Luver]

I suppose cannabis can also be considered a herb as well, due to it's herbal benefits..
weed, plant, herb, annual who cares..it's like the first tomato out of the garden, AWESOME!!

 

[DocLeaf]

I suppose cannabis can also be considered a herb as well, due to it's herbal benefits..

A herb is a plant cultivated for its culinary, medicinal, holistic, or spiritual properties .

so yeah , good "ganja erb" it is then,,

 

[ShroomDr]

Are you saying a "weed" has to "take everything else over around it."

No, i said its a characteristic, not the definitive characteristic.

How long ago do you think those hemp fields were planted? "20-30 years" LOL
I dont give a fuck when it was planted. I said if tomatoes, soybeans, etc are left to set seed, they will take over too, this doesnt make them a 'weed'
Even a mighty dandelion will not "take everything else over around it." LOL
A characteristic, not THE definitive characteristic. Do you know what the word invasive means?

BTW plants have many more allies than just wind for seed dispersal LOL
No Shit Sherlock

Reading comprehension isnt your strong point.

Feel free to argue that tomatoes, wheat, soybeans are 'weeds', i need a good laugh...

 

[420247]

I dont give a fuck when it was planted. I said if tomatoes, soybeans, etc are left to set seed, they will take over too, this doesnt make them a 'weed'

If the tomatoes, soybeans, etc are unwanted and/or are of no value to the garden/gardener, then YES it is a weed!!!

Reading comprehension isnt your strong point.

weed
–noun
1. a valueless plant growing wild, especially one that grows on cultivated ground to the exclusion or injury of the desired crop.
2. any undesirable or troublesome plant, especially one that grows profusely where it is not wanted: The vacant lot was covered with weeds.

Feel free to argue that tomatoes, wheat, soybeans are 'weeds', i need a good laugh...

I have strawberry plants growing as weeds, I kill them all the time... I dont want them... They have no value to me... I dont give a fuck if people buy and eat them... Its a weed to me... Get it... thats the definition of a weed... Can you read?

 

[ShroomDr]

They are 'weeds' to you, just like my 'unwanted tulip' analogy. You either missed or ignored it, so you could nit pick the least important thing i said. Hence why i referenced the reading comprehension.

Go to your garden center, ask 100 people if tulips are weeds.

Feral fields of tomatoes, wheat, soybeans, etc are not considered 'weeds', they may be unwanted, and a 'weed' to an individual, but NO ONE calls these crops 'weeds', so why would a feral field of hemp fall into this category?

Anslinger and Hearst are still brain washing you. Feel free to break free anytime.

 

[420247]

They are 'weeds' to you, just like my 'unwanted tulip' analogy. You either missed or ignored it, so you could nit pick the least important thing i said. Hence why i referenced the reading comprehension.

Go to your garden center, ask 100 people if tulips are weeds.

Feral fields of tomatoes, wheat, soybeans, etc are not considered 'weeds', they may be unwanted, and a 'weed' to an individual, but NO ONE calls these crops 'weeds', so why would a feral field of hemp fall into this category?

Anslinger and Hearst are still brain washing you. Feel free to break free anytime.

feral
1. existing in a natural state, as animals or plants; not domesticated or cultivated; wild.
2. having reverted to the wild state, as from domestication: a pack of feral dogs roaming the woods.
3. of or characteristic of wild animals; ferocious; brutal.

crop 
1. the cultivated produce of the ground, while growing or when gathered: the wheat crop.
2. the yield of such produce for a particular season.
3. the yield of some other product in a season: the crop of diamonds.
4. a supply produced.

cultivate
1. a. To improve and prepare (land), as by plowing or fertilizing, for raising crops; till.

b. To loosen or dig soil around (growing plants).

2. To grow or tend (a plant or crop).
3. To promote the growth of (a biological culture).
4. To nurture; foster. See Synonyms at nurture.


weed
–noun
1. a valueless plant growing wild, especially one that grows on cultivated ground to the exclusion or injury of the desired crop.
2. any undesirable or troublesome plant, especially one that grows profusely where it is not wanted: The vacant lot was covered with weeds.

See how any and all plants have the potential to be a weed... But a crop will never be a weed

 

[Weed-Luver]

so really what your saying 420247 is any plant that can reproduce and survive the elements is a weed..well, by that logic the daylillies that grow wild in the woods are a weed and the daylillies my wife transplanted to a pot yrs. ago are no longer considered a feral weed/flower/plant that grows wild in it's natural state..
how about dandilions, they grow wild, cultivated for salads teas ect..are they no longer a weed just bcuz they are cultivated..whats a weed to you may not be a weed to me..
maybe we should just think of a weed as something we, you and i personally find offensive or aggressive..everything in mother nature has it's place and maybe a some value as well...

 

[Weed-Luver]

A herb is a plant cultivated for its culinary, medicinal, holistic, or spiritual properties .

so yeah , good "ganja erb" it is then,,

right on doc.."ganja erb" it is...
HOO-RAY for weeds..whether they are feral,cropped or cultivated...

 

[420247]

so really what your saying 420247 is any plant that can reproduce and survive the elements is a weed..well, by that logic the daylillies that grow wild in the woods are a weed and the daylillies my wife transplanted to a pot yrs. ago are no longer considered a feral weed/flower/plant that grows wild in it's natural state..
how about dandilions, they grow wild, cultivated for salads teas ect..are they no longer a weed just bcuz they are cultivated..whats a weed to you may not be a weed to me..
maybe we should just think of a weed as something we, you and i personally find offensive or aggressive..everything in mother nature has it's place and maybe a some value as well...

Yes! Kinda! The daylilies in the forest are not unwanted and/or valueless, we/people put value and want on the plant, it just wants to survive... If the daylilies your cultivating spread to another part of your garden and becomes unwanted and/or has no value to you in that place... It becomes a weed... But your wife likes it and wants it to spread everywhere in the garden your cultivating, now its not a weed because she is the boss LOL

 

[Weed-Luver]

Yes! Kinda! The daylilies in the forest are not unwanted and/or valueless, we/people put value and want on the plant, it just wants to survive... If the daylilies your cultivating spread to another part of your garden and becomes unwanted and/or has no value to you in that place... It becomes a weed... But your wife likes it and wants it to spread everywhere in the garden your cultivating, now its not a weed because she is the boss LOL

LMAO..guess I forget who really owns my pair...LOL..

 

[ShroomDr]

Yes! Kinda! The daylilies in the forest are not unwanted and/or valueless, we/people put value and want on the plant, it just wants to survive... If the daylilies your cultivating spread to another part of your garden and becomes unwanted and/or has no value to you in that place... It becomes a weed... But your wife likes it and wants it to spread everywhere in the garden your cultivating, now its not a weed because she is the boss LOL

So everything is a weed, and nothing is a weed... It must be nice to paint with such a wide brush. Standard vernacular is to classify tomatoes, tulips, wheat, soybeans as weeds... NO.

On an individual basis, they can be weeds, but no one calls them that, its not part of the standard lexicon. Wild growing MJ is no different than wild growing tomatoes.

You know what, i give up, you and Harry are right, Marijuana is the devil weed, and it makes white women listen to jazz music and sleep with negroes...

 

[420247]

You know what, i give up, you and Harry are right, Marijuana is the devil weed, and it makes white women listen to jazz music and sleep with negroes...

In his view the Cannabis Sativa plant is/was a weed...

To me ditchweed (Cannabis Sativa) was a weed because it would pollinate my crop (Cannabis Sativa)

 

[headband 707]

A weed is an unwanted plant but one man's weed is another man's tropical plant lol peace out Headband707

 

[Jaymer]

I mean I really wonder how much change/impact a new root system can have on a plant, I got to thinking about what I said about considering clones not as true clones because the new roots are unique to there own. I noticed this recently with lettuce , after growing in soil for about a month I wanted to switch to hydro so I rinsed the soil away and moved them to net pots. The plants then stopped growing and weren't using the old roots at all, the lettuce had to sprout new roots for the wetness and all the old roots are just hanging there brown and dying.

like the tissue can sense and then tap into what it's growing into to suit the grow....

All the new roots from the stalk look different - thicker whiter and healthier - and even the lettuce is now a darker green and compact and "bunched up". When comparing to the ones left in soil they look like two different strains but I don't know how much the genetic makeup has actually changed.

 

[ShroomDr]

So does anyone want to get back on subject?

If plant species that go though flowering are 'able to drink from the fountain of youth each year by enzyme activation in flowering essentially becoming a teenager each and every year.'
&
'The navel orange appears to have an active telomerase enzyme system that repairs the telomeres each summer during flowering, typical of trees. Cannabis is a short lived annual so it probably does not have a particularly active telomerase system.'

One would be forced to say that a re-vegged Marijuana plant is just as good as its original 'never flowered' self (something that cuts across conventional wisdom) (Not something i would argue for or against, i havent revegged enough to form an opinion).

From the logic quoted and underlined, a re-veg is better than its 'never flowered' clone; not something most would argue for.

 

[420247]

So does anyone want to get back on subject?

If plant species that go though flowering are 'able to drink from the fountain of youth each year by enzyme activation in flowering essentially becoming a teenager each and every year.'
&
'The navel orange appears to have an active telomerase enzyme system that repairs the telomeres each summer during flowering, typical of trees. Cannabis is a short lived annual so it probably does not have a particularly active telomerase system.'

One would be forced to say that a re-vegged Marijuana plant is just as good as its original 'never flowered' self (something that cuts across conventional wisdom) (Not something i would argue for or against, i havent revegged enough to form an opinion).

From the logic quoted and underlined, a re-veg is better than its 'never flowered' clone; not something most would argue for.

When I did it, my opinion is/was the flower quality was the same from both harvests... This opinion comes from smoking the flowers and hash from both harvests at two different times... No real scientific data

Info I posted in another thread:

I flowered a plant last spring

I let it become ripe... I watered the plant with plain water at the end (about 10 days)...

Then trim the flowers you want leaving some flowers at the ends of the stems for the new vegetative growth to push out from... Now I used a 12-4-6 NPK fert

^See the new growth coming from the flowers left on the plant^

Old flowers on a newly flowering plant

Let it do its thing and harvest again

I hope this helps

 

[ShroomDr]

FWIW im currently trying to revegging a Ganesh Strawberry Diesel F2, and ive got a Revegged Nirvana White Rhino @ about 30days of 12/12 (whos un-flowered clone failed to survive).

I was gonna drop the Stw_D_F2 (ive flowered her twice before), but this time, she seemed to come out as a creeper; not stoney, but when ya get up to do some shit, your like 'whoa my head is spinning, does the shit i just said to this store clerk make any sense?', kinda buzz. i let her go 80 days of 12/12.

So far the WR looks exactly the same, the second flowering time around (and better than the other 2 WR i kept just incase it didnt).

I doubt its optimal to re-veg, but like i said earlier, ive read a user on here that claimed to reveg for 10+ years, and claimed no changes) (wish i could find their name, i looked for 20+ minutes).

 

[Cannabologist]

- There is a lot to go over in this thread but suffice to say what many have said is wrong.

- Plants do not lose telomeres over time, and they certainly will not and do not lose telomeres from the act of making a cutting of a plant.

- Plants do not mutate simply because you made a cutting.

- Shoot and root meristems, so long as they are not damaged or infected by a pathogen, will effectively divide forever.

- Genes don't "magically" degrade because you take clones.

- Genes are not lost because you made a cutting of a plant.

- A plant is not going to loses because you made a cutting of it, nor will the cutting lose genes or telomeres.

- Mutations and changes in phenotypic expression are different from the kinds of "loss" in genes, or "degradation" (loss of telomeres) people are describing here.

- Some organisms don't lose telomeres, and they also do not appear to suffer deleterious effects from environmental factors, like UVb radiation. Plants, and even some higher organisms, like turtles and tortoises, do not lose telomeres, and thus, do not "age". Plants achieve senesense because of hormonal changes triggered by changes in the season (ie. photoperiod). No change in season (ie. a flowering photoperiod), senescence is never reached.

- Most plants in the wild are exposed to UV radiation constantly within their lifetime being outdoors and exposed to the sun. Think of the many trees, grasses, and other plants you see. These do not mutate being exposed to the sun's UV radiation all their lives (but they do adapt over time to environmental changes...). Most cannabis plants are kept indoors away from environmental changes and UV radiation and pathogens etc, etc, and so thus being in a more controlled environment is already "set up" in conditions that will steer away from any kind of changes that could be incurred by the plant via an environmental mechanism.

- Many cultivated plants we use and eat are clones of clones, and they do not "degrade", lose genes or telomeres. Why? Because that doesn't happen with plants.

- Cannabis is a plant, it does not lose telomeres.

- More on all this, and mutations over time and epigenetic changes and phenotypic changes over time, and their impacts, later.

 

[Jaymer]

Good deal Cannabologist, I can vision it, The cells that are already there dividing and growing.... I think of culture like an advanced liquid to make sense of it.

​

Halfway through I got to thinking of possible degradation happening metaphysically though, Not all disease and dysfunction is biological and when an advanced hybridization process like procreation is cut off whatever cause could be considered a defectant on said plants. My thinking of it is in general, no big deal, life plays it's cards right but it does play them quicker and more accurate to get to point B and point C and point D through procreation. Generations thereafter would be better off, (at least for x amount of years), when compared to clones if they are anywhat capable of adapting.

 

[paladin420]

touching back to reveg. I lived by this for many years/crops,as I expanded and had the ability to do a side by side comparison we noticed a deminishing in aver all weight. Not Potency.