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circuit breaker question

swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
Hey guys.:wave:
Im in the proses of setting up my new grow area in a spare room of my house.
I checked the circuit breaker for the room and its only rated at 16 amps which is a not enough for my needs.I also checked the wiring and that to is only rated for 16 amps.The plan is to run a higher rated cable from my fuse box,up through the roof and into my grow room.What i need to know is does the circuit breaker need to be mounted at the fuse box end or can i mount it on a board with my timer,sockets etc in my grow room?
Cheers.:joint::joint:
 
swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
what i may do is take a few photos of my fuse board in the morning.Its around 40 years old so there are fuses,breakers,meters and wires everywhere.lol.it also has 3 phase etc so its quite confusing.the main thing im worried about is wheere to wire into the board.
 
Elite

Elite

Active member
Yah, we need to see some pics...

What do you mean the breaker and wiring is rated to for 16 amps?? Is it a 20A breaker with #12 wire??

Code states (I'm paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to look it up in my code book, plus I'll give it to you in laymans terms the NEC jargon :D)

You need a breaker at you main which is where your feeder line (wire to sub-panel) will be terminated. The breaker size in the main should match the feeder wire (wire to sub-panel). I.E. #10/30A, #8/50A copper wire.
Your sub-panel can be a MLO (Main Lug Only-No main breaker).

tlm1212ccu.jpg

Commonly found MLO panel

You'll need breakers for this also.

Its quite involved, so please for the love of Jah please don't touch anything until you have more info...

Please be careful and takes some pics of that mess you have, don't worry madpenguin and I have seen worse I'm sure...

Perhaps you can run a 12/3 romex wire giving you 2-20A circuits... Thats about the best info i can provide given the info supplied.

I'm wondering why you have 3 Phase, either not US, in D.C., or a commercial building (some kind of apartments/condos).

madpenguin -Mad :respect:on those threads!! K+

:cool:Elite
 
madpenguin

madpenguin

Member
Yea... You shouldn't have 3 phase in residential but I suppose it's possible.

Take pictures. Quite a few of them. I never heard that you wanted to install a subpanel. As far as I'm aware you just want a new circuit. You need to explain exactly what it is you want to do as well.

PeteWeedSeed first mentioned a subpanel but I assume he misinterpreted your post. Don't touch anything until you know what's going on and feel comfortable doing it.

Your location is key as well (country). I have a sneaking suspicion your not in the US.
 
swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
hey guys,got some pics for ya.shes a mess lol.
oh,i live on a farm and have three phase for our bore water pump and also for the lathe and compressor in the garage.over the years there have been various add ons such as a flat added on to the back of the garage,an extra bedroom added,kitchen and bathrooms refurbished etc,so that's why there is a mix of old fuses and new circuit breakers.:spank:

this is the mains entering the house.
picture.php


this is the front of my fuse/main box.
1.house meter
2.flat meter
3.pump meter(3 phase)
4.trickle feed for hotwater.
5.hot water meter.
6.three phase main.
7.mains power switch.
8.house fuses/breakers.
9.flat main breaker and hotwater.
10.three phase fuses.
11.garage main breaker.
picture.php


inside of powerbox.
1.ground/neutral bus
2.mains input.3 hot,1 neutral and 1 ground.
picture.php


back of powerboard.
1.meter inputs.
picture.php


mains switch input with 3 hots.
picture.php


told ya shes a mess but i know what everthing is and where it all goes(mostly)
as in my previous post,what i want to do is run a cable(20 or 30 amp) from the power box to my grow room.i want to run 6 x 600 watt lamps in 2 lots of 3 plus an extraction fan,a few pedalstill fans and thats about it.each ballast is rated at 2.75 amps so thats 16.5 amps for the lights and another 1.5 amps or so for the fans.I should be able to just terminate the ground and neutral wires to the earth bus and wire in the hot to the back of one of the house fuses.sound right?then I just wire the grow room end onto a board with 3 sockets.1for each set of lights and one for the fans,with timers on each.
sound like a plan?
cheers for the help guys.:joint:
 
C

Cracky

In most of the world the wire sizes are not measured in AWG (American Wire Gauge) but in metric units. If any help is offered please remember to use the metric sizes for Swampy. Also, the voltage is 230 vac in New Zealand.

Shovelhandle
 
Elite

Elite

Active member
:laughing:

Ok...its not the worse I've seen....lol, but not far off, yet different than what i'm accustomed to seeing...

lol, I'm an US Electrician...What is all that shit??

Sorry to laugh!!

Perhaps you can hire a good local electrician...Its not like you have to tell him what its for.

Any NZ Electricians here??

I wish I could help....I'm not the type to BS people, I have no clue!!

Sorry,
:confused:Elite
 
swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
no worries bro.:joint:
its an old house,hence the mess.in newer breaker boards one end of the breaker clips directly onto the live bus,hence no wires,but since i have no hot buss all the fuses and breakers are hooked,looped together at the back with wires,hence the mess.iv been thinking of getting the who thing ripped out and replaced with up to date stuff.maybe after my next harvest.:D
 
P

PharmaCan

Active member
Veteran
To answer your original question, the circuit breaker needs to mounted on the fuse box end - otherwise you would have a non-fused cable running thru your house and that's a no-no for all kinds of code and safety reasons.

PC
 
swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
Is that because the wire is live and if it was damaged there would be no breaker between it and the main board so it couldn't trip out and may cause a fire/shock?By putting a breaker at the other end it would still protect equipment and the circuit in case of overload right?
 
P

PharmaCan

Active member
Veteran
swampy_nz said:
Is that because the wire is live and if it was damaged there would be no breaker between it and the main board so it couldn't trip out and may cause a fire/shock?By putting a breaker at the other end it would still protect equipment and the circuit in case of overload right?
Click to expand...

I'm not quite sure which end "the other end" is. LOL If the other end is the main board side then, yes, you are correct.

PC
 
madpenguin

madpenguin

Member
It all looks fairly straight forward except I'm still unsure of the voltage on L1, L2 and L3.... :wink: That's kinda cool you do have 3 phase service. I'll assume you are out in the stiks with sheep everywhere or something. The only reason I can think of to distribute 3 phase power to a residence.

Don't suppose your comfortable with a multimeter are you? Doesn't matter tho I guess. Probably should keep my nose out of it. I'm assuming you have 230 on each leg, but that is an assumption. Looks as if you have a free space for a new fuse or breaker 2 over from your water heater.

Newer cable will probably have a green/yellow striped conductor. That and the black to your neutral bus. What ever is left (red,white or blue) to your load side of a new breaker/fuse. Due to the spaghetti mess you have going on there, I can't discern where to tap a phase line in to the other terminal of a fuse tho. If all of your usable voltage is actually derived from one phase, then you should try to pick one that isn't loaded up as much as the others.

Wait. I said I was going to keep out of it. Seriously. If you really need the circuit ASAP, then run the cable yourself and try to get an electrician out to finish off the connections. That would be my advice to you.

You have piqued my interest tho. I've always felt kinda ignorant being only familiar with US systems... But I'm certainly not going to learn at your expense.
 
swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
im out of town but only by a few kms.Newzealands economy is structured around agriculture(dairy,beef,lamb)so the lines carry 3 phase for all of the dairy farms(there are more dairy cows in a 20 km radius than anywhere else in the world hence why my city is nicked named "cowtown"lol.
might have to get a sparkie in to wire up the new breaker and circuit and then sort the grow room are out myself.Sooooooooo..lets say the sparkie does his bit and wires me up a new 30 amp breaker and circuit,how should i sort my end out.should i put another breaker on,is it worth it?do i hard wire the cable into the sockets etc.what do yas reakon?
 
Elite

Elite

Active member
madpenguin said:
Wait. I said I was going to keep out of it. Seriously. If you really need the circuit ASAP, then run the cable yourself and try to get an electrician out to finish off the connections. That would be my advice to you.

You have piqued my interest tho. I've always felt kinda ignorant being only familiar with US systems... But I'm certainly not going to learn at your expense.
Click to expand...

:laughing:

The rest was well said...lol...but thats some fucked up shit Kiwi...
:biglaugh: I Always get a good laugh outta some of the crazy panels I'm "servicing".
I had pics of a 200A panel barely being held on the wall (just by the wires) she had 4 different types of breakers...lol, the thing was sparking into the flooded basement...An HUGE addition to a already large house, the General Contractor wanted me to add it to the existing service :biglaugh::noway:
The had a nice new underground fed 400A service when I was done with them...

I'd love to see a coffee table book on fucked up electrical services around the world...

Even with that crazy shit you have going there Kiwi...I don't think its as simple as you need 30Amps, so you run one wire and you can just jump from outlet to outlet.
In the US you'd need a way to distribute that 30Amps (like a sub-panel)...
wait...I'm staying out of it too. Consult a local sparky before you run the wire, because i have the suspicion you don't grasp the theory of electricity(no offense). I just don't want to see you purchase and run the wrong kind of wire

:DElite
 
swampy_nz

swampy_nz

Member
cheers elite.
when i get the sparkie to wire in the breaker i will ask him what grade wire to purchase to run the circuit.:joint:
 
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