Chicken shack rdwc madness.

[Numboard]

A while.... Ill go take some pix right now. While Im gone taking pix I want you to read this whole thread. It explains everything.

Here is the pump i am going to be using with my chiller. I am going to use the small pump thats attached to the chiller now to run the 6 bucket flower uc.
The little one can do 7' head at 5gpm. This one can do 15gpm at 20' head.

I made a quick video but its going to take something like 2 hours to upload


Here are two fan leaves I took from two different plants very close to the TOP of the plant. Both are train wreck.

Just tell me what to do and ill do it! Cant let my babies die now! Also no i am not feeding my plants with creekwater. We are on a deep well. I fill my buckets with well water.

 

[Numboard]

I just got back from getting groceries and as i passed the auto parts store near my house i decided to peak in there and see if they had any used radiators i could get my dirty little hands on.
Well they did. I think i scored big time right here. No leaks. Just gotta figure out how to plug up all these fittings and attach a garden hose.

 

[Numboard]

Okay I'm running into disaster here. I gotta move as many of the plants as i can into my closet to keep them out of the heat. So I have enough time to renovate the shack. then I can move the plants back.

 

[MynameStitch]

Dude, first I would not use the radiator; residue effect......
Another thing, your plants still got the root rot and when they have root rot, anything under the sun of problems they can get can and will be shown, it's a mask that you think something the plants are getting too much or not getting enough of, when it's the roots that is the whole problem, with your heat issue is the whole problem that is causing this, when your growing Hydro heat is your enemy big time.

Normally people leave anything that can cause heat out of the grow room to minimize temps and every little bit count, since your growing like you are, I honestly do not see how you can grow in a chicken hut and still keep temps down, becauase your growing outside and have metal shacks, this causes heat to be released, you would have to insilate it and get a AC going if you wanted to really grow in there.

Another thing, most people use lights at night to keep temps down, but since this is outside you don't want someone possibly seeing an orange light in the middle of the night in a shack, would attract way too much attention.

The leaves you are seeing look like old light bleaching, as long as they came off near the tops of the plant, the brown spotting effect is not tan which indicates the tissue was damaged and not self inflicted, like the plant using stored nutes.....
How close is your light and what are your temps like in that grow area?

This was caused by environmental problem, the leaves show some other problems, but that is caused by the root zone.

Notice in the one picture with your hand and your moving the brush aside; the curling of the leaves is heat stress, the plants leaves are using more moisture than it can transpire and to protect it they curl to slow the heating process down.
As for the copper issue,there is nothing wrong with using a copper water cooler, I honestly think it's better, because copper conducts what temp it's at, so if the liquid inside is hot it's going to stay hot and if it's cold it's going to get colder then the liquid that is in it.

Stainless steal is thinner and does not conduct hot and cold like copper.

You still got the root rot, you must get rid of it, if you want your plants to get better, what are your water temps at right now?
What are you using to get rid of root rot, if using anything?

Honestly, if you want to continue growing you must get something up that does not conduct heat, metal is terrible to use, you will either have to find an alternative, or insulate the shack and put in an ac so you have control over what the temps are....

There should be an AC in there now, I don't see one from the pictures you posted, unless I missed it.

Some people have to use 2 ac window units, so you may have to do that since the space you got going.....

 

[Numboard]

Dude, first I would not use the radiator; residue effect......
Another thing, your plants still got the root rot and when they have root rot, anything under the sun of problems they can get can and will be shown, it's a mask that you think something the plants are getting too much or not getting enough of, when it's the roots that is the whole problem, with your heat issue is the whole problem that is causing this, when your growing Hydro heat is your enemy big time.

Normally people leave anything that can cause heat out of the grow room to minimize temps and every little bit count, since your growing like you are, I honestly do not see how you can grow in a chicken hut and still keep temps down, becauase your growing outside and have metal shacks, this causes heat to be released, you would have to insilate it and get a AC going if you wanted to really grow in there.

Another thing, most people use lights at night to keep temps down, but since this is outside you don't want someone possibly seeing an orange light in the middle of the night in a shack, would attract way too much attention.

The leaves you are seeing look like old light bleaching, as long as they came off near the tops of the plant, the brown spotting effect is not tan which indicates the tissue was damaged and not self inflicted, like the plant using stored nutes.....
How close is your light and what are your temps like in that grow area?

This was caused by environmental problem, the leaves show some other problems, but that is caused by the root zone.

Notice in the one picture with your hand and your moving the brush aside; the curling of the leaves is heat stress, the plants leaves are using more moisture than it can transpire and to protect it they curl to slow the heating process down.
As for the copper issue,there is nothing wrong with using a copper water cooler, I honestly think it's better, because copper conducts what temp it's at, so if the liquid inside is hot it's going to stay hot and if it's cold it's going to get colder then the liquid that is in it.

Stainless steal is thinner and does not conduct hot and cold like copper.

You still got the root rot, you must get rid of it, if you want your plants to get better, what are your water temps at right now?
What are you using to get rid of root rot, if using anything?

Honestly, if you want to continue growing you must get something up that does not conduct heat, metal is terrible to use, you will either have to find an alternative, or insulate the shack and put in an ac so you have control over what the temps are....

There should be an AC in there now, I don't see one from the pictures you posted, unless I missed it.

Some people have to use 2 ac window units, so you may have to do that since the space you got going.....

What is this residue effect you are talking about?
I definitely agree with you that its the heat and root rot killing my plants. Right now i have moved my plants into my closet.

They are still in a veg cycle even though the light is now hps. The room is too small to fit my chiller so hopefully the temps will stay low ish. So far they have stayed under 70 no prob. What should I be doing about root rot? I know one of the things is keeping your water temps down. Do i need to cut out the afflicted areas? from the root ball? It only looks to me like some sections are really rotting and breaking down. I absolutely cannot run another ac in the greenhouse without running a new sub panel to the place. This will involve digging trenches and laying cable. Money i really don't have right now. I am thinking i should go into hibernation mode right now. Keep some clones alive until late august when the temps start lowering. I dont know how they really could have got light bleaching. They are only under a 400 watt mh. The light was always at least 18 inches away from the tops of the plants. I really think heat from the light itself is the l least of my worries. I planned on using rads with creek water flowing through them to keep the room as cool as possible. I did a trial run with a rad in my window hooked to a garden hose and a fan and it really did the job quite well.

Set me up with a plan here. What should i be feeding/doing to my plants to tackle these issues. mostly about the root rot.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ok, I think I am confused; what you using the radiator for? Ahh I see now, nm what I meant was the residue from coolant that was in the radiator, NO DO NOT CUT ANYTHING FROM THE ROOT ZONE!

You must flush the whole system out with hot water and h2o2 and all lines and hoses and res and water pump must be cleaned, then take another bucket fill it up with water and 2 tsp of h202 per gallon of water and dip your plants roots in and out of this solution and when you dip them in this, let them sit in this for 5 seconds each time for up to 2 min, each plant needs this done and after half your plants have been treated, clean the bucket and add fresh water and h202 and do the rest.

Then get some sm90 from the hydro shop and some hydro guard and mix that in with your water and keep the temps down and you will not get the rot as long as the temps stay down, cause sm90 and hydro guard help stop it, but can't kill it forever if temps are too high....

65 should be temp of water and no higher than 70, 65 has the most available of o2 and nutrients.

you can get light bleaching from a 400 watt mh.
It's the dry heat that is causing your problem combined with the temps outside.
do you keep your air pumps, ballasts inside?

You keep those roots pearly white and they will love you for it.
Keep the radiator near the plants, also you can use and roate 2 or 3 liter bottles that have been frozen and place it in the res and rotate when they melt and replace with new ones.

If you can, try to make a water proof cabinet outside to keep all stuff that contributes to the heat.

 

[Numboard]

Heading to the hydro store now!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

While I take pictures, you read the whole thread.

While I take pictures, you read the whole thread.

Numb,

After the response I got from you asking about your water flow direction, I kinda committed to giving up sharing ideas with you. (You're response was something like: "It's been covered many times before"... My thought: checking up on your thread whenever there's a post might be a sufficient contribution to your well being--I know I appreciated the support that I got--but I'm not sure I'm interested enough memorize it all. I know that I know how UC-styles are supposed to be set up... I know that I know that the volume of a circle is calculated my multiplying pi by the radius squared. I know the volume of a hose has a parabolic relationship to its radius. That is why I used 3" inch lines in my knock-off. My question was intended as a potentially helpful check in on your knowledge-base.)

Consider some of the following as you struggle with what others have already been through:

Numb,


There seems to be a bit of incomplete thought out there...

If you are f'n' around with RDWC (love it, by the way) look through RichyRich's sticky in the infirmary. I grew DWC without problems, relocated, and was suddenly plagued by the brown slime. The thread is stupid long... RR suggests that you just filter his posts... I've worked through it both ways... you'll get 80% of the info in 30% of the time if you follow his advice...

To sum it up: Physan20 slays shit.

Get a bottle.

It is cheaper than dirt .

On enzymes: hygrozyme's site shows comparison pictures of lettuces... with hygro used from day one and the batch with out. Hygrozyme kills it... but why? Because the enzyme is breaking down dead organics and keeping the lettuce root system clean and maximizing feeding. If you introduce hygrozyme AFTER the first day of a run, it's is going to break down all dead organics... RAPIDLY. Various bacterias consume various things... but the root rot nasties all thrive on dead organics. So... you break'em'down for them with hygro, it'll turn into a straight-up buffet for those bitches... unless you have a thriving herd of bennies that'll get to it faster than the nasties.

But do you have 'em?

RR's thread suggests continuous inoculation of EWC is enough to keep things under control [AFTER YOU USE PHYSAN20 TO STERILIZE THE SYSTEM]... but he dropped the enzymes because they made rapid food for the nasties.

Here's the next thing to consider: The nasties dig phosphorus... so as you transition to a flower-cycle-feed, you're making their lives even easier (which is why growers are slayed in the second week of flower... out of transition feeds that start to grow the bitches, and into the full flower feeds that make'm ex-muthafukn'-plode). So... maybe don't toss in hygro now... maybe start dosing with EWC.

Alternatively, look into using a light bleach dosage into the solution per the recommendations of the elusive fatman. Rather than bio-combating slime, you just chemo your plants every couple of days.

Regardless, if you have physan20 on hand and problems show up, you have a ready solution.

Sorry for too many words. Like the shack. Keep it up.

If the recommended HydroGuard is an enzyme/micro-bio based product (didn't it become ?Aquashield?, and if so, it is bio-based), rather than a chlorine/chloramine/ammonium chloride based product, you are not sterilizing your system.

sm90 didn't do shit for me.

physan20 did.

As per RichyRich's post in the infirmary... a piece of work that developed over years and helped loads of people.

Hope you had fun at the store.

Please forgive my bitter tone... and good luck.

EDIT:
*Roots aren't too far gone, look decent in the photo... new white growth is definitely present and would already be attacked by pathogens if present.

*If it is water born pathogen based, folks have had success transplanting RDWC plants to coco...

 

[Numboard]

Okay im really sorry That i diddnt follow up as well as i should have to your wall of text. I was really in a rush at that point to get my temps down that I diddnt devote my time to responding to your post. Right now after getting back from the hydro store... I check my bucket readings and my res temps are 85 degrees f. 660 US and 6.6 ph. No bueno. I gotta figuire out how im going to rig up my chiller. Also I bought two bottles at the hydro store. One of sm90 and one of hydro shield. The hydro shield reccomends i should mix it at 1 oz per gallon. I am running a 35 gallon setup here and the bottle I bought is 30 fl oz. Am i really supposed to dump the whole damn bottle into my buckets? Also after purchacing the sm90 and reading the bottle. This stuff is a water wetter? what exactly do I need a water wetter for? Both bottles were about 20~ bucks. The sm90 is way more "concentrated" than the hydroshield so i dont need to worry about dumping my whole bottle in here. Also. Do i need to take into account the ppm of this stuff? Like... do i need to cut back my nutes when i add this stuff. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Imaginary: I promise to read that sticky in the infirmary
Also not quite sure where I am going to get 35 gallons of hot water.....

 

[MynameStitch]

Sm90 is a start and has worked very well to rid of root rot, so when you got the rot you get rid of it IMMEDIATELY, because your plants will stunt and then you got to have your plants recover, any rot will slow down progress by a week or more.

Those temps are way high, you need to keep them under 70, your hydro shield and sm90 will not protect bacteria growth if you do not keep the temps down.....

You can transplant into coco, but he is wasting money if he does, because one when you remove plants from hydro it takes time for them to coop from the medium changes, roots absorb water differently from soil to hydro, you can just pluck them into a different medium and problem solved, they end up wilting for a bit and the roots have to be scattered around the soil, you have to spread them out a bit instead of just setting them in there and the whole root ball is in the middle of the plant..... they stress wilt and can die if not done properly... not to mention his plants are already showing a problem and adding another now will likely slowly kill them..... the problem is his root zone being attacked and when you transplant plants from water to soil and so forth it's the root zone that gets the stress, the stress of cooping of re designing the way it takes in water, so adding another problem to the root zone is a no no, not to mention with all the money he put into this setup he is better off finishing this out here and then maybe changing next grow......

His whole problem surrounds by the high temps is causing this entire problem, he needs to get the temps down and he won't have any other problems as of now...

If you don't get them temps down quickly you will be taking another trip to the hydro store, also you gotta rinse the whole system, left over bacteria will stay in there if you don't.

Less bacteria growth the better and quicker you get your plants back in line.

Can you just take all your grow equipment inside? Jjust the stuff that water came in contact with, use a shower stall or something......

 

[Numboard]

Well right now i am hand cleaning all the buckets as they sit in my closet. I took all the plants and put them outside to soak in some h202 water. ----edit: Shit after doing all this work i read that you should replace your water after each plant soak. Fuck.... I diddnt do this. I soaked them all in the same bucket with the same water.---- Drained all the old nute water out and refilled with plain water. Then i added a quarter bottle of hydro shield. God knows how much bleach but alot. And damn near a whole bottle of h202. Then I went to work scrubbing all the shit by hand with a rag. This whole time the pumps have been running circulating my death mix. Do I really need to take the whole thing apart and meticulously scrub EVERYTHING? or is this enough?

 

[Numboard]

Alright i pulled the buckets out of the closet and rinsed them really good with the hose to get any residue of the bleach out. I blasted water through all the fittings between the buckets. I cant really clean inside those fittings. The only way to take the buckets apart would be to physically unscrew all the caps and pull it apart. This is really hard to do and very cumbersome. Unless I absolutely HAVE to do this I think im gonna skip it. The bleach and high levels of h202 should take care of any baddies I got left in there right? I mean I poured almost half a gallon of bleached into that fucker.

Also where the plants are currently i cant exactly run my chiller. however, there is a freezer not 15 feet from the closet. I emptied all the shit out of it (mostly trash) and filled it chock full of milk jugs. Ill just cycle out frozen milk jugs for a while till i can move back into a space where i can run the chiller again.

I will respond almost instantly to any posts in this thread. I have email notifications set up and a buzzer that alerts me whenever there is a new post in this thread.

What dosage of h202 should i be running in my buckets? 2 tsp per gallon?

 

[fatigues]

I have never cleaned a RDWC setup so I have no practical advice to offer on that front.

I do, however, heartily recommend Physan20. It is THE chemical solution to your problem and it is powerful enough that it will be able to deal with the problem of not being able to scrub inside your fittings. It's so strong that it is not available in the same strengths in Canada as it is in the USA (highest strength in Canada available is only half as strong as is available in the USA).

 

[Numboard]

What is the recommended dosage for physan? Is it less than 1oz per gallon?

 

[SumDumGuy]

Alright i pulled the buckets out of the closet and rinsed them really good with the hose to get any residue of the bleach out. I blasted water through all the fittings between the buckets. I cant really clean inside those fittings. The only way to take the buckets apart would be to physically unscrew all the caps and pull it apart. This is really hard to do and very cumbersome. Unless I absolutely HAVE to do this I think im gonna skip it. The bleach and high levels of h202 should take care of any baddies I got left in there right? I mean I poured almost half a gallon of bleached into that fucker.

Also where the plants are currently i cant exactly run my chiller. however, there is a freezer not 15 feet from the closet. I emptied all the shit out of it (mostly trash) and filled it chock full of milk jugs. Ill just cycle out frozen milk jugs for a while till i can move back into a space where i can run the chiller again.

I will respond almost instantly to any posts in this thread. I have email notifications set up and a buzzer that alerts me whenever there is a new post in this thread.

What dosage of h202 should i be running in my buckets? 2 tsp per gallon?

I never used H202 in any of my grows. Just make sure you cleaned with clorox as you already did and you'll be ok. The key to clorox is running the system with the hottest water possible and using a cup of clorox for every 5 gallons. Let it run for 30 minutes then dump and refill with HOT water again this time no clorox for 30 minutes. Then repeat one more time after dumping again. Then let dry and you are sanitized buddy.

Make sure the frozen jugs do not leak. Leaking just or bottle can introduce pathogens into your habitat.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

From RichyRich's sig:

"Use Physan20 at 1mL per 10 gallons to sterilize and clean.
Apply EWC Tea at 2-3 cups per 10 gallons.
Tea made with Ancient Forest by GH is really good.
Add Great White, Root Excelurator and Hydroguard to your tea brew for a micro-herd army and say bye-bye slime. Add tea to rez every 3 days and fridge your tea for 10 days max.If it ever smells rank, toss it."

That said: the shot of the roots you showed has new clean white roots. Are you sure the old "brown" roots aren't just stained? A pathogen will attack new growth as well as old.

-As you can see 1mL per ten gallons in the system ain't shit (one bottle for the rest of your life). I'm working out of memory here, which is dubious at best: run it through the system for between six and twelve hours. Dump that solution. Replace with pH'd H2O... flush out the physan20 with that... maybe do that a couple of times if you are feeling OCD... then back to a super gentle feed with EWC (there are a million simple EWC recipes... Here's Richy's: 3 gal RO, 1-2 cups Earthworm castings, glob of molasses, bubble 18-24 hours, apply 2-3 cups EWC tea per ten gallons (that might be totally out of my head wrong), refrigerate the remainder for up to seven-ten days... or when it goes 'rank'... and add back whenever it floats your boat (every couple of days))...

In all honesty, from what I can see, your roots are in decent shape.

I think it is too high temp combined with too high humidity for you ppm levels.

LAST BIT OF ADVICE: Don't just throw money at the problem.
1. Take cuts.
2. Make a plan (Richy's or whatever) + your plan on moderating temps
3. Follow the plan... run super light nutes so that you aren't masking nute lock out with root-rot
4. Look for results.

Enough writing for now.

If you want to hear more, ask me to tell you about me chasing-the-fatman and his position on chlorox-dead-reservoirs... That's ten threads in itself...

 

[Numboard]

Alright guys. I am down to 3 plants. I had to take out 3 of them because they looked beyond repair. Main stem almost completely flopped over. the other three I thinned out and did a bunch of pruning.
I think I went way too fast into growing. I am gonna flower out these three plants and start a small indoor soil "learner" grow. I need to get some cycles under my belt before I can come back to this hydroponics stuff.
Too many things are unknown to me, this scares me. In all honesty, I haven't even produced smokable bud once yet. Never made it past veg in my previous shitty ghetto indoor soil grow. I am going to take my equipment and make a small lab in the basement where its cool. I know a lot of you are going to be disappointed with this news but fuck, I gave it my best shot. I have plenty of clones to work with so all is not lost. Heres some pix

Front and rear right are train wreck. Rear left is white widow.
Need to learn to walk before I can run.

 

[supervaca]

Hi you all, sorry to hear about nastys.
H2O2 dose is 2 ml / 10 liters (make conversion, I'm not so good and make confusion with uk/usa measures).
I would add a biofilter NEXT TIME if you intend to work in high temperatures, even a house-made one (with a lady sock and a handful of coco peat inside, inoculated with trichoderma, etc, under the return of your table).
Of course, this is totally USELESS with H202, physan, etc... this kills ALL organisms, good or bad.

Now I have 35-36 degrees celsius peaks, I use 5 drops of bleah in a 50 liter tank, as my guru advised.... They are gorgeous, I can't believe... I thought they will not survive, really... white and healthy roots, healthy grow, no stop.

May the Force be with you

EDIT: Hey, if you wanna go hidro way, but have high temps, I would go coco....
You can hand water it in the beguinning and set a drip system in flower.... works like a charm, and helps you to get the figures you need to run properly a hydro setup....
You can use (probably) same nutes, too..... give it a run...
I advice you REALLY get Biobizz or Atami bag coco, superb for beguinners
A warm hi from Spain, good luck, treat them well.

 

[SumDumGuy]

I wouldn't give up on hydro just yet.. Just dust yourself off and get back in the ring. Learn as you go my friend.

 

[mule420]

Hey bro your one crazy cat, keep it up! I see good things for you in your future! Hydro is a fickle mistress! Once you get it... Watch out! Need some hydro help shoot me a PM bro, Respect! Peace and puffs