You can use potassium sorbate, but as far as I know none is needed or used in most commercial formulas, though a little won't hurt and be beneficial to the rooting clone unless you are using trichoderma or mycorrhizals.
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Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?
- Thread starter BillFarthing
- Start date
You can use potassium sorbate, but as far as I know none is needed or used in most commercial formulas, though a little won't hurt and be beneficial to the rooting clone unless you are using trichoderma or mycorrhizals.
Good call. Sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate are food safe additives used at 0.025-0.1%.
Three Berries
Active member
PPM=mg per liter
kingape
Active member
Hi, I am just copying what Daniel has written in one of the comments on the cloning gel article
Absolem
Active member
Could try Suttocide A. I'd be interested if it worked for this cloning solution. Try at 2ml Suttocide A/250ml of the cloning gel.
kingape
Active member
Hey BillFarthing !
What are your thoughts about adding Gypsum to get say 50% of the Ca requirement?
Gypsum has 23% Ca and a solubility of 2.5gm/liter.
at .5gm/liter of Gypsum, it will be adding 115ppm.
Or can we add Gypsum to the media to supplement the Ca perhaps?
What are your thoughts about adding Gypsum to get say 50% of the Ca requirement?
Gypsum has 23% Ca and a solubility of 2.5gm/liter.
at .5gm/liter of Gypsum, it will be adding 115ppm.
Or can we add Gypsum to the media to supplement the Ca perhaps?
Absolem
Active member
Hey Bill, Nice thread, a lot of great information. Well done. I do use Suttocide A when I mix up micros to add to my stock B solution. It's pretty neutral regarding pH. That's why I think it would work for his cloning gel. Maybe down the road I could run a test on it. Was hoping kingape would give it a whirl
Peace.
kingape
Active member
Hi!
I am trying to get some Suttocide A, meanwhile I gave am checking if it spoils without any preservatives
LJ farming
Active member
Bill,
I have always used RO water because of a recommendation from a friend when I started growing. Now that I am beginning the switch to COCO I have read that this is potentially a bad idea because I would basically be stripping the Calcium and Magnesium out of my well water and then having to add double the CalMag to get back to where the plants would need to be in Coco. Thoughts? As always thanks for your expertise!
LJ
I have always used RO water because of a recommendation from a friend when I started growing. Now that I am beginning the switch to COCO I have read that this is potentially a bad idea because I would basically be stripping the Calcium and Magnesium out of my well water and then having to add double the CalMag to get back to where the plants would need to be in Coco. Thoughts? As always thanks for your expertise!
LJ
I use municipal tap in coco and don't add any extra calcium, just the calnit epsom and whatever is in the masterblend base, ph comes out perfect after mixing
I am in hempys though and the coco is cut with hydroton so I don't know how much it's holding onto vs all coco
I am in hempys though and the coco is cut with hydroton so I don't know how much it's holding onto vs all coco
Absolem
Active member
Awesome. Keep us posted.
ExNavyInSTL
Active member
LJ:
This might not be apples to apples, but I wanted to share with you my concerns as I'm switching to coco next grow (first time).
I read that Coco has a tendency to take Calcium intended for the plants, so I reached out to Jack's for info on buffering.
With the 3-2-1 plan that I use through veg, I knew I would no longer have soil to cover my ass for whatever shenanigans coco would cause.
Here is the email and response I got back from the "Blue Crew.":
Their answers are in RED.
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 2:31 PM
To: Jack's Nutrients Info <[email protected]>
Subject: Help with a First Coco Coir Grow
Hi:
I’m on my first Jack’s grow. I am in soil and everything is going well with the Jacks 3-2-1 (3.6,2.4,1.2).
However, on my next grow I am changing it up quite a bit. I would like your help dialing it in.
(1) Switching to AutoPots (5-gallon Fabric Version) bottom feed FROM standard 5-gallon fabric that I topwater.
(a) This means feeding on about 5 to 7 gallons in a reservoir that holds 12 gallons.
(2) Switching to Coco Coir (Brick)
(b) I know I will need to buffer (more questions on that in a bit).
(3) I’m using RO water
(4) I have on hand Jacks A & B and plant of Epsom Salt for 3-2-1
(5) If I am missing details to help please let me know.
Ok, now I’ll try to articulate my questions clearly.
1) Can I use Jack’s Calcium Nitrate to calcium buffer the coco instead of a bottled Cal/Mag?
If you are using coco from a reputable company, where the label says it has been pre washed/buffered – you should not need to charge the coco. However, if the label does not say the coco has been pre washed/buffered – you can soak the coco using Part B 15-0-0 Calcium Nitrate at 50 ppm N (1.2 grams per gallon). Calcium is a larger molecule and literally pushes smaller molecules out of the coco – such as potassium, chloride and sodium. These three elements, naturally accumulate in coconut trees and if not washed/buffered can cause issues.
My comments to LJ: Since I knew I was using brick coco, I knew it wasn't buffered already, or at least the company didn't brag about it in their marketing.
(a) If I can, would you suggest a per-gallon ratio?
(b) If I should use Magnesium how much of Epsom Salt per gallon for buffering
(c) My plan is to give the coco a good washing, then when mostly dry, add in my buffering solution and let it sit overnight or so
(d) If there is a better/easier way please let me know.
(e) Videos I’ve watched say use a 150% serving for the buffering process.
2) Regarding plant (Illinois medicinal cannabis) feeding with what Jack’s I have on hand already, my RO water, and Coco (60/40 perlite), can you help me with what my new recipe should be?
(a) That is if my current Jack’s 3.6g, 2.4g, 1.2g version of 3-2-1 is not adequate.
We recommend sticking with 3.6g, 2.4g, 1.2 g! If you need a higher EC or ppm – we recommend increasing each part by percent equally to maintain the nutrient ratios.
3) Jack’s will be mostly alone in the reservoir:
(a) I will amend my bio-stimulants, mycorrhizae, humic, fulvic, Tribus, Recharge type products from the top.
Jack’s Nutrients will not have any negative effects on microbiomes
4) Also, if I had never bought my initial Jack’s fertilizer, what Jack’s recipe would you suggest starting from scratch with if there is a better product for RO water, and coco?
We recommend the 3-2-1 for growers using RO water and growing in coco!
This might not be apples to apples, but I wanted to share with you my concerns as I'm switching to coco next grow (first time).
I read that Coco has a tendency to take Calcium intended for the plants, so I reached out to Jack's for info on buffering.
With the 3-2-1 plan that I use through veg, I knew I would no longer have soil to cover my ass for whatever shenanigans coco would cause.
Here is the email and response I got back from the "Blue Crew.":
Their answers are in RED.
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 2:31 PM
To: Jack's Nutrients Info <[email protected]>
Subject: Help with a First Coco Coir Grow
Hi:
I’m on my first Jack’s grow. I am in soil and everything is going well with the Jacks 3-2-1 (3.6,2.4,1.2).
However, on my next grow I am changing it up quite a bit. I would like your help dialing it in.
(1) Switching to AutoPots (5-gallon Fabric Version) bottom feed FROM standard 5-gallon fabric that I topwater.
(a) This means feeding on about 5 to 7 gallons in a reservoir that holds 12 gallons.
(2) Switching to Coco Coir (Brick)
(b) I know I will need to buffer (more questions on that in a bit).
(3) I’m using RO water
(4) I have on hand Jacks A & B and plant of Epsom Salt for 3-2-1
(5) If I am missing details to help please let me know.
Ok, now I’ll try to articulate my questions clearly.
1) Can I use Jack’s Calcium Nitrate to calcium buffer the coco instead of a bottled Cal/Mag?
If you are using coco from a reputable company, where the label says it has been pre washed/buffered – you should not need to charge the coco. However, if the label does not say the coco has been pre washed/buffered – you can soak the coco using Part B 15-0-0 Calcium Nitrate at 50 ppm N (1.2 grams per gallon). Calcium is a larger molecule and literally pushes smaller molecules out of the coco – such as potassium, chloride and sodium. These three elements, naturally accumulate in coconut trees and if not washed/buffered can cause issues.
My comments to LJ: Since I knew I was using brick coco, I knew it wasn't buffered already, or at least the company didn't brag about it in their marketing.
(a) If I can, would you suggest a per-gallon ratio?
(b) If I should use Magnesium how much of Epsom Salt per gallon for buffering
(c) My plan is to give the coco a good washing, then when mostly dry, add in my buffering solution and let it sit overnight or so
(d) If there is a better/easier way please let me know.
(e) Videos I’ve watched say use a 150% serving for the buffering process.
2) Regarding plant (Illinois medicinal cannabis) feeding with what Jack’s I have on hand already, my RO water, and Coco (60/40 perlite), can you help me with what my new recipe should be?
(a) That is if my current Jack’s 3.6g, 2.4g, 1.2g version of 3-2-1 is not adequate.
We recommend sticking with 3.6g, 2.4g, 1.2 g! If you need a higher EC or ppm – we recommend increasing each part by percent equally to maintain the nutrient ratios.
3) Jack’s will be mostly alone in the reservoir:
(a) I will amend my bio-stimulants, mycorrhizae, humic, fulvic, Tribus, Recharge type products from the top.
Jack’s Nutrients will not have any negative effects on microbiomes
4) Also, if I had never bought my initial Jack’s fertilizer, what Jack’s recipe would you suggest starting from scratch with if there is a better product for RO water, and coco?
We recommend the 3-2-1 for growers using RO water and growing in coco!
LJ farming
Active member
Thank you ExNavy. This saves me the pain of having to ship a bottle of my well water to Jacks to have analyzed. I will just continue with RO when I make the switch. I should be putting my first run of clones into coco within a week or so maybe sooner. Then depending on how those do I will put my second run in Coco about 7-10 days later. I cut clones twice because I am kind of nervous about the whole Coco thing. I also went with the expensive $15/bag Canna Coco that is said to be ready to use out of the bag and plan to for at least 2-3 grows. I am pretty close to nailing my drip system down. I’m just waiting on a new pump because I did not like how long it took the original to pump 2 pints of water out of 84 drip baskets. I actually must have bumped me head when I made my current decisions. My next run will be first time using Jacks 321, first time growing in Coco, first time doing Drain to Waste, and first run in my almost finished new grow room. It’s seriously potentially a recipe for a big disaster. Another reason I cut double the clones and started a second mom of each strain I currently run.
I didn’t understand the part of your post where you said you were using Bottom Feed Auto Pots that you topwater. I understand what each individual one is but Bottom, Top, and Auto for water and or feed? I guess I don’t understand how you do all 3 at one time. Have you come across Hundred Gram Ounce (screen name) thread on drain to waste for coco on here? Or DJMs Both give an incredible amount of details on how to do Coco drain to waste. Good luck with your first Coco grow. I know I’m excited about mine but nervous as hell at the same time.
I didn’t understand the part of your post where you said you were using Bottom Feed Auto Pots that you topwater. I understand what each individual one is but Bottom, Top, and Auto for water and or feed? I guess I don’t understand how you do all 3 at one time. Have you come across Hundred Gram Ounce (screen name) thread on drain to waste for coco on here? Or DJMs Both give an incredible amount of details on how to do Coco drain to waste. Good luck with your first Coco grow. I know I’m excited about mine but nervous as hell at the same time.
ExNavyInSTL
Active member
Sorry about that, I meant top amend. I want to keep the water and nutrients in the bottom and add things like kelp, fulvic, and other bio-stimulants from the top. Basically, mostly clear stuff in the rez, and add all the brown stuff from the top.
ExNavyInSTL
Active member
Sorry, placed this in the wrong thread and can't figure out how to just delete it.
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ExNavyInSTL
Active member
Same as above. I thought I was posting into my Grow Diary.
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Good call.
If we wants 0.02g of dry powder, he could weigh out 0.1 then take a credit card and mirror to make 5 lines.
Of course, a 0.01 resolution scale leaves change from a $10 bill, if you can wait a few weeks for postage. That would be best, if this needs doing regularly. Most of these 0.01 scales will hold 200g which means they actually get more use than you might think.
On that tip, my 0.1g set weigh to 2kg and my 1g kitchens hold 10Kg. Together it's a nice set of three, that can about cover the duty of the neighbouring size, when that set breaks.
Always buy scales that take batteries you can find in any petrol station or remote control. Not some 3020 size, that costs more than new scales, and take planning to fetch some. Fecking love my pH meter, but it's a nightmare. Did you know a 12v car blipper battery holds individual cells if you slice it. It's often the cheapest way to get a number of branded cells for a pH meter.
And back to the program
Interesting log of environmental data STL. No run-off monitoring? I find it mission critical, and the biggest guide to how I set my tank.
You should get a diary going, so we can follow your progress, any from this topic
ExNavyInSTL
Active member
I've got a grow log going right now. Come join in the fun. We are 40 days in.
Edited to Add Link to Grow Diary: https://www.icmag.com/forum/marijua...row-of-2022-mephisto-double-grape-ss-o-g-kush
No, I don't test runoff. That doesn't mean I shouldn't. It's just that I am using a top-drip system (BluMat). I never have run off because they are drinking and eating at their own pace. Even after they have chugged down a half-gallon over the night, the sides of the fabric pots are not even damp to touch. However, if things started going sideways I would likely test run off then.
I was using Jack's 3-2-1 up until preflower was obvious. Then I switched to 2g (Jack A), 2g (Jack B), 2g Epsom, and 1.2g M-K-P. I ran the feed mixture a little too strong for a few days on accident. That caused some upper small leaves to twist and some tip burns, but it has leveled off.
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