Cheap, automatic CO2 control?

[njayjay]

Hi there, I was wondering if theres any way of cheaply controlling CO2 production to keep it within the 1500PPM range, I'm talking about a system that both produces and maintains the CO2 at this level. Or is it easy and effective enough to use the usual yeast and sugar methods without needing a regulating device of some sort? I want to produce the optimum CO2 levels cheaply if thats possible, basically. Thanks in advance.

 

[*mistress*]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=108618
unlimited cheap c02.

probably wont get to 1500, but will add c02 for >pieces of silver.

enjoy your garden!

 

[sparkjumper]

I have a lot of controlled co2 enrichment experience and I wish I could convey my experiences to everyone else considering using enrichment.I know in the past several months I've relayed my experience which would save so many people such disappointment if they understand what I'm saying.It is the same questions day in and out and man,its just frustrating to me anymore.Check out what I said in the other thread about co2 enrichment on this page bro and take it to heart.Try and understand there is no cheap easy shortcuts if actual results are what you're after.People will always futiley gas their plants without taking the time to understand what needs to be done and the expenses that will certainly accompany it,and thats a shame because I've always had a genuine desire to try and help people on this subject.And learn some more things for myself.Damn anyone see the MTF sandman lately?We used to have such great enrichment threads trying different temps at different times and such..Good stuff

 

[KnuckleHedd]

I've been enriching the air effectively for the past 6 years. There is no cheap, easy way. Fermentation and whatever won't do it. I wasted time and money on futile endeavors for a long time. I have a sealed room, CO2 controller, room controller (temp & RH), bottled gas for warm months and a CO2 generator for cold months. That's the basic equipment. I agree with sparkjumper.

 

[*mistress*]

I have a lot of controlled co2 enrichment experience and I wish I could convey my experiences to everyone else considering using enrichment.I know in the past several months I've relayed my experience which would save so many people such disappointment if they understand what I'm saying.It is the same questions day in and out and man,its just frustrating to me anymore.Check out what I said in the other thread about co2 enrichment on this page bro and take it to heart.Try and understand there is no cheap easy shortcuts if actual results are what you're after.People will always futiley gas their plants without taking the time to understand what needs to be done and the expenses that will certainly accompany it,and thats a shame because I've always had a genuine desire to try and help people on this subject.And learn some more things for myself.Damn anyone see the MTF sandman lately?We used to have such great enrichment threads trying different temps at different times and such..Good stuff

I've been enriching the air effectively for the past 6 years. There is no cheap, easy way. Fermentation and whatever won't do it. I wasted time and money on futile endeavors for a long time. I have a sealed room, CO2 controller, room controller (temp & RH), bottled gas for warm months and a CO2 generator for cold months. That's the basic equipment. I agree with sparkjumper.

title of thread:
Cheap, automatic CO2 control?
there are cheap (inexpensive) alternatives to machines.

a 5 gallon bucket of fermenting juice, w/ 5 pounds of sugar on it, w/ an established kicker, will add c02 to the environment.

the actual level, or ppm, increase has not been measured in imaginary garden. do know that if room is sealed relatively well, the c02 released by the fermentation process will add more than was previous present w/out the bucket.

different gardeners may have different goals relevant to why they add c02. cannot assume that all desire yield increase. in this imaginary garden yield is not ever a factor in consideration - just general health and vigor of plants.

since it is widely accepted that plants like to assimilate c02 (photosynthesis), adding it via a bucket of juice, sugar and fruit pulp is extremely "cheap" compared to the cost of machines.

also, have read many threads concerning the failures of various machines and regulators, etc. related to c02 generation. went thru all that many moons ago; just into making killer tomatoes (in imagination); not monitoring a bunch of machines.

would rather monitor plants...

purposely avoided c02 ppm meters, automated watering, ec meters, etc. these rounds. used to go into garden and spend an hour checking this/that machine before checking plants. fictitiously deleted all automation and focus only on plants themselves - along w/ temps, vpd, diff, ambient temps, air flow, aggressive foliar feed, etc.

30% yield increase may be a common goal in c02 addition; however, some gardeners may simply want to add moderate amounts of c02 - w/out the time+energy associated w/ machine-generated c02. a 10% increase in ambient c02 levels, for mere crumbs - w/out machine hassles - may be a viable objective for some garden/ers.

a bucket of juice in a sealed room, w/ a pound of sugar per gallon, will stay bubbling. the bubbles are c02 being released into atmosphere. dont know how much; avoid all meters here. do know the chemical process is undisputed. keep replacing 1/2 volume of juice weekly (dollar store juice+sugar), to keep batch fresh. can consume product, or destroy.

preferably use 1/8" vinyl tubing from small holes punched into lid of 5 gal bucket, ran directly over/into plants. but can just place bucket(s) w/ holes in lids in air flow. since c02 heavier than air (oxygen), keep fans on high.

plants also need 20% oxygen in air. generally termed "gas-exchange" in plant physiology.

while a gardener may not reap a 30% increase in yield using a bucket of juice, they may want to only enhance their garden w/out spending pieces of silver on machine.

just options for gardeners that cant afford big purchase, have mid-sized garden, or want to garden w/out reliance on machines.

enjoy your garden!

 

[Lazyman]

If you have a closet or micro grow Mistress has some good ideas, but larger rooms just require more, of everything!

In most larger rooms there are lots of things vying for your attention, but I've found that a properly automated dialed-in room will require LOTS less maintenance, leaving you free to worry about the plants. I could not hand water my room for example, just not feasible. My reservoirs top themselves off and timers run damn near everything else. Plan carefully and reap big rewards at the end.

Oh, and some good advice for new growers: Buy the best equipment you can afford, even if it's a bit of a stretch. It will usually work better, last longer, and have a higher resale value if you choose to upgrade in the future. Buy bigger than you need, because your gardens will almost ALWAYS get bigger in the future and you'll need that extra capacity, and won't have to upgrade all of your hardware to get there, just some select pieces.

 

[sparkjumper]

Well kiddo I guess we will have to agree to disagree.You seem to feel a moderate uncontrolled addition of co2 introduced to flowering plants will satisfy some?A 30% increase in yield is not what its all about if you're going to hassle with it anyway?Then what exactly is the goal of introducing uncontrolled amounts of co2 to plants in a sealed room anyway?This is too frustrating anymore lol.Have fun with your wasting of time money and more importantly good information given over and over that falls on deaf ears.Use a cyclestat timer.Use room calculations that only take cubic footage into account.Disregard the plants in the aforementioned room,their size and stage of development when calculating.And whatever you do dont use a controller to actually keep fluctuations to a minimum,you may actually produce some real results and I think it may be too much for many lol

 

[*mistress*]

If you have a closet or micro grow Mistress has some good ideas, but larger rooms just require more, of everything!

In most larger rooms there are lots of things vying for your attention, but I've found that a properly automated dialed-in room will require LOTS less maintenance, leaving you free to worry about the plants. I could not hand water my room for example, just not feasible. My reservoirs top themselves off and timers run damn near everything else. Plan carefully and reap big rewards at the end.

Oh, and some good advice for new growers: Buy the best equipment you can afford, even if it's a bit of a stretch. It will usually work better, last longer, and have a higher resale value if you choose to upgrade in the future. Buy bigger than you need, because your gardens will almost ALWAYS get bigger in the future and you'll need that extra capacity, and won't have to upgrade all of your hardware to get there, just some select pieces.

Well kiddo I guess we will have to agree to disagree.You seem to feel a moderate uncontrolled addition of co2 introduced to flowering plants will satisfy some?A 30% increase in yield is not what its all about if you're going to hassle with it anyway?Then what exactly is the goal of introducing uncontrolled amounts of co2 to plants in a sealed room anyway?This is too frustrating anymore lol.Have fun with your wasting of time money and more importantly good information given over and over that falls on deaf ears.Use a cyclestat timer.Use room calculations that only take cubic footage into account.Disregard the plants in the aforementioned room,their size and stage of development when calculating.And whatever you do dont use a controller to actually keep fluctuations to a minimum,you may actually produce some real results and I think it may be too much for many lol

alright, re-read initial post of thread-starter...

desired 1500 ppm constant...

apologies to members lazyman, sparkjumper and knucklehedd...

c02 levels usinf fermenting will not reach 1500 ppm. those posters probably are more skilled @ generators and c02 in that sense. have never tried a gen.

only fictitiously familiar w/ up to 10x10 room w/ several 5 gal buckets. sealed room, so whatever c02 buckets produce is used by plants. thats all concerned w/. more c02 than would have been there w/out - for maybe 5 coins per bucket per week, if that.

 

[sparkjumper]

I understand mistress.Most people believe that any real additional co2 PPM over around 500PPM will somehow benefit their plants,but there is just so much more to it.The level must be constant and a minimum 1200PPM although most agree 1500 is best.The least of fluctuation is absolutely key,and you will never achieve this without a controller.And of course you need to have temp and humidity control along with everything else imaginable dialed in.Its so worth it though when you finally get it right but getting it right takes money and a lot of study.

 

[*mistress*]

I understand mistress.Most people believe that any real additional co2 PPM over around 500PPM will somehow benefit their plants,but there is just so much more to it.The level must be constant and a minimum 1200PPM although most agree 1500 is best.The last of fluctuation is absolutely key,and you will never achieve this without a controller.And of course you need to have temp and humidity control along with everything else imaginable dialed in.Its so worth it though when you finally get it right but getting it right takes money and a lot of study.

have temps, vapor pressure deficit (rh) , and everything dialed in. c02 addition is really for yield enhancement; not concerned w/ yield in imaginary garden. c02 is constant in fictitious garden... buckets + airflow going 24/7. this is just gas-exchange, or transevaporation.

please provide link to test of only +1200 being effective. is this to say that any addition under 1200 ppm and plants will ignore it? please refer to sci data.

what is your specific objective for adding c02? how is absoption measured?

enjoy your garden!

 

[njayjay]

What exactly is a room controller for RH and temp and how does one work?

I'm interested in automating the climate control in my 8x6x8 growtent if i can do it under 500 bucks. I plan on adding an AC unit to the room in the future also.

 

[*mistress*]

What exactly is a room controller for RH and temp and how does one work?

I'm interested in automating the climate control in my 8x6x8 growtent if i can do it under 500 bucks. I plan on adding an AC unit to the room in the future also.

have not used single controller unit. another gardener may brief on that.

seems 8-10K btu window ac would do trick to stabilize that size room. depends on light(s) used, air circ, etc. maybe small dehumidifier too... 500 silver pieces more than enough for both those appliances. look 2nd-hand 1st, then look for clearances from big general stores. should be more than enough atmospheric control.

enjoy your garden!

 

[njayjay]

thanks thats very helpful

 

[sparkjumper]

mistress I've spent a great deal of time reading and even more using different techniques so that I can share what I've learned with others.It was a lot of work,and if you think I'm going to go chasing down links for someone whose mind is not open you are sadly mistaken.You seem to the the "500 silver pieces" you keep talking about is like some kind of dealkiller.The fact is without the silver you wont be getting the results you want.At least I think you want results.You've made several comments about an increase in yield maybe not being everyones major motivation.If thats true mistress what exactly is the motivation behind co2 enrichment?Its certainly not to kick up the ambient co2 levels periodically with no ryhyme or reason to achieve what again?No dear people use enrichment for one reason only and that is to increase yield.It wont increase quality,speed things up much,or do anything but increase dry weight by 25-30% when done correctly.For the life of me I dont know what you are trying to accomplish by adding a little gas willy nilly.EDIT I thought I'd add this because I found it pretty interesting.I started using co2 enrichment and R/O water at about the same time although I know the co2 is really what made such a visable difference.I grew blockhead for a few years using a green air propane burner and a timer called a cyclestat.The cyclestat controls the frequency and duration of burn and is set according to room size in cubic ft.It doesnt take into account the number,size,and development of the plants using the co2.Another words its fuckin useless.The fluctuations were too large for the plants to be able to adjust to the higher levels and utilize the excess co2.They cant do this if the level is jumping around.You want no more than a 200 or so PPM fluctuation.I set my controller for 1500PPM it drops to 1450,kicks in the generator,and it climbs to about 1650 befor slowly falling down to 1450 where the process starts again.No more than a 200PPM fluctuation for a full 12 hours straight.That is what you need for results.Without enrichment my blockhead was great,trichome covered and they stood firm and tall proudly.That was my problem lol.When I started using enrichment in flower the plants stayed the same size but they didnt exactly stand firm and tall anymore lol.In fact I had to use a multitude of stakes and speaker wire just the keep the plant somewhat upright!It was amazingly heavy compared to the blockhead I grew with a cyclestat.Believe me those falling over plants translated to 6 lbs for 3 1K non-cooled vertizontals.I know people say they get 2 lbs per 1K all day without the use of co2 enrichment and I say bully for them.Lets see them do it with a strain like blockhead not big bud lol

 

[Dr Dog]

do you know that the average human, expels 2500 or so ppm of co2

The cheapest way is spend more time with your plants. I do not recommend c02 for new growers, too many things to watch for, you should be learning about growing, and worry about the additives later

 

[sparkjumper]

Actually Dr Dog the average PPM of co2 expelled from a human in one breath is about 40,00PPM co2,it quickly disperses in the air though.This goes hand in hand with what I'm saying about productive enrichment that brings about results.You cant just sit in a room or leavr an animal in there and expect the co2 being expelled through breathing to produce any results at all for your girls

 

[Dr Dog]

no i was not saying that

But the OP is a newb, I have answered a bunch of questions already from him. I dont think newbs should be experimenting with large tanks of compressed gas or better yet, adding fire to their rooms.
Just the whole process of sealing their rooms, most have issues with

 

[sparkjumper]

I havent really found it to be a dangerous gig or I wouldnt do it.I am an electrician though but common sense should prevail here.Keep my burner as high up on the wall as possible without it becoming a problem to the ceiling,maybe 6 ft up on an 8 ft ceiling.Ikeep the tank in an adjoining room running the hose through a small hole in the wall.I know what you mean m,an it could be dangerous if people just dont hink things out but its not as bad as I've heard tell here.And the heat put out by them is pretty overexaggerated too IMO.The heat put out by a dehumidifier during lights on is much much more detrimental.I usually only run the dehumid after lights out,the AC keeps RH from 50-60 RH during lights on so I dont really need the dehumid during the day.Only in real special circumstances

 

[*mistress*]

mistress I've spent a great deal of time reading and even more using different techniques so that I can share what I've learned with others.It was a lot of work,and if you think I'm going to go chasing down links for someone whose mind is not open you are sadly mistaken.You seem to the the "500 silver pieces" you keep talking about is like some kind of dealkiller.The fact is without the silver you wont be getting the results you want.At least I think you want results.You've made several comments about an increase in yield maybe not being everyones major motivation.If thats true mistress what exactly is the motivation behind co2 enrichment?Its certainly not to kick up the ambient co2 levels periodically with no ryhyme or reason to achieve what again?No dear people use enrichment for one reason only and that is to increase yield.It wont increase quality,speed things up much,or do anything but increase dry weight by 25-30% when done correctly.For the life of me I dont know what you are trying to accomplish by adding a little gas willy nilly.EDIT I thought I'd add this because I found it pretty interesting.I started using co2 enrichment and R/O water at about the same time although I know the co2 is really what made such a visable difference.I grew blockhead for a few years using a green air propane burner and a timer called a cyclestat.The cyclestat controls the frequency and duration of burn and is set according to room size in cubic ft.It doesnt take into account the number,size,and development of the plants using the co2.Another words its fuckin useless.The fluctuations were too large for the plants to be able to adjust to the higher levels and utilize the excess co2.They cant do this if the level is jumping around.You want no more than a 200 or so PPM fluctuation.I set my controller for 1500PPM it drops to 1450,kicks in the generator,and it climbs to about 1650 befor slowly falling down to 1450 where the process starts again.No more than a 200PPM fluctuation for a full 12 hours straight.That is what you need for results.Without enrichment my blockhead was great,trichome covered and they stood firm and tall proudly.That was my problem lol.When I started using enrichment in flower the plants stayed the same size but they didnt exactly stand firm and tall anymore lol.In fact I had to use a multitude of stakes and speaker wire just the keep the plant somewhat upright!It was amazingly heavy compared to the blockhead I grew with a cyclestat.Believe me those falling over plants translated to 6 lbs for 3 1K non-cooled vertizontals.I know people say they get 2 lbs per 1K all day without the use of co2 enrichment and I say bully for them.Lets see them do it with a strain like blockhead not big bud lol

thanks for the reply.

plants breathe in c02. providing more c02 to an environment makes plants happy. even if in small amounts.

not about the coins here. not why reply to posts. post for the gardeners that want to grow fruit w/ as few appliances as needed, using surplus, or diy implements. more into selecting & x-ing quality fruit. not breeder, but may have created several distinct lines...

as eluded to ^, some strains will simply be low-yielders. if they are sports, then they may hang around until x-ed w/ a better yielder. or, may simply not have yield as goal, and go for 70-100 days+ for eccentric tastes. or be eliminated from garden...

relatively easy to maintain adequate fruit - even if yielding moderately, in small space. while true that adding c02 gen/machine+meters, etc. will increase yield - have also increased an input variable that must be maintained. surplus is good, but those are decisions for gardener to make.

not here to say this/that yield is this/that +/- avg, etc... any novice grower can sow 10 bag-seeds, under a 400-1k, get 5 dom-goddess-girls, veg for 30 days, take cuts, and flower them out. should be enough fruit until cuts do it again. loop the ^process and should not be in need of fruit, ever, if desired.

why the c02? here, so plants have air they like to breathe; for pennies.

is cost of purchase+running+meters+etc = to yield? probably, but the final yield is weighted by expenditures of appliance operation.

many here do have serious interest in more yield, and more yield on top of that... some here may simply desire to throw a bucket of dollar store juice in a corner, let the what, maybe 100ppm increase (have never measured) do its thing. estimate that more ppms of c02 are generated by a 5 gallon bucket, w/ 5 pounds of sugar on it... am just supremely pleased w/ fruit, so why spend gold? 20-30% more, when have enough to eat?

so, fermentation c02 method is for modest gardeners, who just want to enahance the environment of their gardens - not trying to compete w/ or out do c02 generators. the generators win every time for efficiency and production levels. get one if that is in your designs... get some juice and sugar and a bucket if you your want to relax and enjoy your garden!