Chasing deficiencies with Advanced Nutrients PH Perfect Sensi Coco

[AngrySquirrel]

I am having problems using PH Perfect Sensi Coco by AN. I have had several successful grows using this exact same set up I am currently using and my conditions are well within proper range but this is my first time using AN. I am using buffered coco in Airpots with 3+ fertigation events per day with distilled water as my starting water.

I am 5 weeks into veg and it started off well but for the past 2 weeks the tips of all the leaves are bright yellow and some are yellow along the edges like they were colored with a highlighter. It definitely isn’t nute burn as the tips aren’t crispy and it’s not effecting the older lower leaves, only the new leaves and all of the new shoots are coming out already yellow at the tips. I also noticed there was slight intervenal chlorosis and the leaves themselves are just growing weird they aren’t perfect and smooth like my previous grows.

75% strength (about 1400EC) was working well before this started, so I tried simply upping the strength just 100EC for a few days to fix it but even that little increase made the yellowing worse as well as some slight eagle clawing. Then I tried adding Cal Mag Xtra to my starting water to make it 400EC, then added Sensi Coco grow at 75% strength. Then I diluted it all down to 1400EC and PH comes out to 5.8. Before I fed it this new mix I flushed the pot using GH Florakleen and then flushed again with this new nutrient mix to give it a fresh start and this is what I’m still currently feeding it. It fixed the intervenal chlorosis but the tips seem like it’s getting worse. I purchased Sensi coco for the ease of use and it specifically says on the website that it doesn’t cause any “mysterious deficiencies” but that’s what I’m getting and I am at a complete loss right now I’m not sure what can be causing this.

I contacted AN support but all they did was link me their feed chart and said follow it. I kid you not. And if I do follow it it says I should be giving it 100% strength at this stage of my grow which is just ridiculous and would just bring the N tox/eagle clawing back tenfold.

Sorry for the long post. Any help would be appreciated I just want growing to be fun again

 

[goingrey]

Looks like nute burn to me. An increase in concentration making things worse would also hint in that direction.

Brown and crispy tips all over would be after excessive overfertilization for a long period not straight away.

But many things can cause yellow tips. Light burn for one, you would know better than us if that could be it. Media drying out probably not if you are watering three times a day, unless it's just a drop every time.

 

[Three Berries]

When I see that I add more Ca. Always in veg and I foliar feed with CaCl2. What I think it is, is the plant is growing faster than it can absorb enough Ca due to the LED lighting. So you get light burn? It actually looks like nute burn. The nutes were there but the Ca building blocks weren't? To me light burn would be more spread across the leaf.

If I let it go the leaf will start to brown out. If I sprit the new growth daily when yellow with CaCl it greens out if you catch it before the brown.

 

[AngrySquirrel]

Looks like nute burn to me. An increase in concentration making things worse would also hint in that direction.

Brown and crispy tips all over would be after excessive overfertilization for a long period not straight away.

But many things can cause yellow tips. Light burn for one, you would know better than us if that could be it. Media drying out probably not if you are watering three times a day, unless it's just a drop every time.

I have an Apogee PAR meter and I keep it between 750-800 in veg which is well within range. It’s been like this for a few weeks, every other time I’ve gotten nute burn it gets crispy in a few days. Plants grow fast in coco. I suspect it’s a K deficiency due to the cation exchange sites in the coco and the chemistry involved, so I thought the little extra cal mag would balance things out. My current hypothesis is the ratios used in the Sensi line just isn’t working with this specific strain (White Nightmare bx2 by Sin City Seeds)

I have to flip soon regardless because of space, I’m hoping the change to bloom nutes will make her happy again due to the higher dose of K.

 

[goingrey]

Could be. It's not a big difference in K goin from grow to bloom: 4->5. You could just increase the part B because that's where all the potassium is and most of the nitrogen is in part A?

 

[AngrySquirrel]

Could be. It's not a big difference in K goin from grow to bloom: 4->5. You could just increase the part B because that's where all the potassium is and most of the nitrogen is in part A?

I plan on using a little of their bloom booster since their schedule calls for it and I want to get the ratios they call for. Supposedly this line is specifically tuned and you aren’t supposed to mess with it.

But you may be right it could be just from too high of EC even if the tips aren’t crispy. I think I’m going to try lowering the EC for the next few days to see if she likes it better.

 

[AngrySquirrel]

When I see that I add more Ca. Always in veg and I foliar feed with CaCl2. What I think it is, is the plant is growing faster than it can absorb enough Ca due to the LED lighting. So you get light burn? It actually looks like nute burn. The nutes were there but the Ca building blocks weren't? To me light burn would be more spread across the leaf.

If I let it go the leaf will start to brown out. If I sprit the new growth daily when yellow with CaCl it greens out if you catch it before the brown.

Thanks for the reply Berries. Foliar spray sounds like a good idea that way I can get it some Ca without the extra N. You’ve seen this type of deficiency before?

 

[dramamine]

It almost seems like a ph issue. Have you checked the ph of your runoff? Curious what AN has in there to "lock in" the perfect ph and how well that scenario works.

 

[goingrey]

It almost seems like a ph issue. Have you checked the ph of your runoff? Curious what AN has in there to "lock in" the perfect ph and how well that scenario works.

It's "a secret" but has to be some kind of pH buffer mix, what else could it be?

Buffer solution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AngrySquirrel]

It almost seems like a ph issue. Have you checked the ph of your runoff? Curious what AN has in there to "lock in" the perfect ph and how well that scenario works.

You know I thought the same thing. It’s constantly at 5.5-5.8 and doesn’t rise above that even after a few days. Ca uptakes best between 6.0-6.2. Maybe it works TOO well and perpetually giving it 5.8 ph is messing with the plant. AN says with this line anywhere between “4.0-8.0ph is ok” due to the chelates they use. I’m not sure I buy that.

 

[goingrey]

You know I thought the same thing. It’s constantly at 5.5-5.8 and doesn’t rise above that even after a few days. Ca uptakes best between 6.0-6.2. Maybe it works TOO well and perpetually giving it 5.8 ph is messing with the plant.

Calmag foliar spray would work?

 

[dramamine]

You know I thought the same thing. It’s constantly at 5.5-5.8 and doesn’t rise above that even after a few days. Ca uptakes best between 6.0-6.2. Maybe it works TOO well and perpetually giving it 5.8 ph is messing with the plant. AN says with this line anywhere between “4.0-8.0ph is ok” due to the chelates they use. I’m not sure I buy that.

It's possible they told you to feed at their higher recommended rates because it takes x amount of their ph additive to get it to 6 or so. I don't know how likely that is...just guessing.

It seems like a lower feed would need less of the ph buffer, but there could be more to it.

 

[jackspratt61]

I have an Apogee PAR meter and I keep it between 750-800 in veg which is well within range. It’s been like this for a few weeks, every other time I’ve gotten nute burn it gets crispy in a few days. Plants grow fast in coco. I suspect it’s a K deficiency due to the cation exchange sites in the coco and the chemistry involved, so I thought the little extra cal mag would balance things out. My current hypothesis is the ratios used in the Sensi line just isn’t working with this specific strain (White Nightmare bx2 by Sin City Seeds)

I have to flip soon regardless because of space, I’m hoping the change to bloom nutes will make her happy again due to the higher dose of K.

What's ph of media? Also,very little k is needed if ca/p is balanced especially until flowering. Coco is notoriously high in na which causes k,ca uptake issues

 

[Three Berries]

Thanks for the reply Berries. Foliar spray sounds like a good idea that way I can get it some Ca without the extra N. You’ve seen this type of deficiency before?

I use chlorides for foliar and top dressing, Ca, Mg and K @1300ppm

I see this with high ambient CO2 levels. +2000ppm.

 

[St. Phatty]

When I used General Hydro, there were no deficiencies.

But that was with Rockwool in an ebb & flow set-up, for about 15 years.

Of course I had to be religious about checking pH and I guess the building water was OK.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

75% strength (about 1400EC) was working well before this started, so I tried simply upping the strength just 100EC for a few days to fix it but even that little increase made the yellowing worse as well as some slight eagle clawing. Then I tried adding Cal Mag Xtra to my starting water to make it 400EC, then added Sensi Coco grow at 75% strength. Then I diluted it all down to 1400EC and PH comes out to 5.8.

I would use a consistent 6.0 pH in coco coir.

What is 1400 EC? I presume you mean PPM, and if so on what scale (500, 700, etc.)?

Before I fed it this new mix I flushed the pot using GH Florakleen and then flushed again with this new nutrient mix to give it a fresh start and this is what I’m still currently feeding it. It fixed the intervenal chlorosis but the tips seem like it’s getting worse. I purchased Sensi coco for the ease of use and it specifically says on the website that it doesn’t cause any “mysterious deficiencies” but that’s what I’m getting and I am at a complete loss right now I’m not sure what can be causing this.

I contacted AN support but all they did was link me their feed chart and said follow it. I kid you not. And if I do follow it it says I should be giving it 100% strength at this stage of my grow which is just ridiculous and would just bring the N tox/eagle clawing back tenfold.

From the picture, it looks like a magnesium deficiency/lockout - nearly exactly like this picture:

Source: https://growingorganic.com/cannabis-guide/how-to-treat-a-magnesium-deficiency/

 

[Hiddenjems]

I have an Apogee PAR meter and I keep it between 750-800 in veg which is well within range. It’s been like this for a few weeks, every other time I’ve gotten nute burn it gets crispy in a few days. Plants grow fast in coco. I suspect it’s a K deficiency due to the cation exchange sites in the coco and the chemistry involved, so I thought the little extra cal mag would balance things out. My current hypothesis is the ratios used in the Sensi line just isn’t working with this specific strain (White Nightmare bx2 by Sin City Seeds)

I have to flip soon regardless because of space, I’m hoping the change to bloom nutes will make her happy again due to the higher dose of K.

What is your veg light schedule. 800 on the light meter will do some damage all the way down to 18/6 with some strains and burn up weak strains quick at 24 hours of light.

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

PH Perfect nutes definitely still require ph monitoring and adjusting. When you mix it with distilled water, what is your starting ph value?

 

[AngrySquirrel]

PH Perfect nutes definitely still require ph monitoring and adjusting. When you mix it with distilled water, what is your starting ph value?

It comes out to 5.8 every time and stays that way even for a few days. Then it might rise to like 5.9. So it’s been getting 5.8 consistently. I didn’t adjust because I read a lot of things from users and AN themselves saying not to PH it but that’s exactly what I’m going to do now since your the 3rd person to suggest that.

This is where were at today

What is 1400 EC? I presume you mean PPM, and if so on what scale (500, 700, etc.)?

EC is electrical conductivity to measure nutrient strength. It is better than PPM as PPM is derived from EC but has two different conversion rates which makes EC simply better to use. Source: Dr. Coco, PhD in horticulture and university professor.

Understanding Osmosis and EC - Coco For Cannabis - Science

Learn how EC, PPM & TDS affect plants. Understand osmosis (how the plant absorbs water) and why it is critical to measure EC/PPM when you fertigate.

www.cocoforcannabis.com

I agree it does look just like that magnesium deficiency, however my plant lacks in the intervenal chlorosis that mag def is known for. This pic I found below is of K deficiency, looks just like my plant, but who knows. This is the frustrating part, it’s hard to nail down what it is and everything I tried isn’t fixing it. Maybe it both? Maybe it’s neither? Hopefully the PH adjusting will work

Sigh this is starting make me damn near depressed. After having past grows basically be autopilot this one is kicking my ass. And the PH perfect line is supposed to be set and forget. I fell to their advertising and online shills in the forums.

Another note: I noticed my run off EC was dangerously low (only 200!) so I bumped up the strength to 1650. This time I didn’t get eagle claw as I assume the plant is more mature and can handle the extra N. I flushed until it got up to the 1650 inflow amount. Then overnight the run off already dropped to 950 (its supposed to be near your inflow amount). So the last 24 hours I bumped it up to 1800ec. I thought maybe AN was right and just bump up the feed? But today still no difference. I’m going to start PHing the feed now and will report back.

 

[Creeperpark]

The photo above looks like it was caused by allowing the pH to drop too low. What kind of water are you using?