The PL/Hortilux fixture should be available in Europe (same as D-pap)
http://www.hortilux.nl/product/hse-daylight/
http://www.hortilux.nl/product/hse-daylight/
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They use the Daylight bulb though, it's only good for veg.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Disagree.
My research tells me that:
Low Kelvin/warm spectrum (3000k) or so-called "warm/red" light is best for yield.
However, high Kelvin/cold spectrum (4200k and up) or so-called "daylight/blue" light is best for overall potency, flavor and particularly terpene production.
Several sources have told me that the only thing low-kelvin/red/warm light is "better" for is the yield. Everything else, cold/balanced light is actually outperforming the low kelvin lights.
So I will definitely look into the Hortilux fixtures. Thanks for the tip, I lost sight of those!
I will go with high kelvin or daylight spectrum throughout the entire grow, both veg and flower.
My research tells me that:
Low Kelvin/warm spectrum (3000k) or so-called "warm/red" light is best for yield.
However, high Kelvin/cold spectrum (4200k and up) or so-called "daylight/blue" light is best for overall potency, flavor and particularly terpene production.
Several sources have told me that the only thing low-kelvin/red/warm light is "better" for is the yield. Everything else, cold/balanced light is actually outperforming the low kelvin lights.
So I will definitely look into the Hortilux fixtures. Thanks for the tip, I lost sight of those!
I will go with high kelvin or daylight spectrum throughout the entire grow, both veg and flower.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Hmmm
aren't the Hortilux fixtures just the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]D-Papillon 315w Luminare CDM-TP I mentioned previously?
Are they the same bulbs even?
I can't make out if the Philips CDM-TMW Elite 315w and the Philips CDM-TP Elite 315w are the same bulbs.
Sometimes I think they are and Philips just changed the name or if they are different stages of development (assuming CDM-TP is an older version and CDM-TMW the newest, most developed?)...
Anyway, let us assume the CDM-TMW and CDM-TP are the same for a second:
The D-Papillon 315w Luminare fixtures I found for 400 bucks, including the CDM-TP daylight lamp, all in.
Using the part numbers and help I got here, I ended up at about 400-450 bucks for a DIY fixture which would use something like a classic azerwing reflector or something of the sort.
From the price alone, it would make sense for me to go for the D-Paps for 400 bucks because I would pay the same or more for my DIY cdm.
But I read elsewhere that the D-Paps were considered the weakest among the cdm fixtures. Among other reasons I remember people stating that the reflector creates hotspots and isn't "it"... I have in my head how people say every other cdm fixture they bought or made themselves outperforms the d-paps.
Like I said, if I spent 400 bucks or more for a light, I want to have the best and nothing but the best. If I would settle for less, I could get 600 or 1k watt fixture with a magnetic ballast and stay well below 200 bucks per fixture...
Really not sure if I should get the hortilux/d-pap fixtures for 400 bucks now or DIY my own fixtures for the same price or slightly more...
Guess that mostly depends on the Philips CDM-TMW and CDM-TP being the same or different lights ...
Cheers folks!
[/FONT]
aren't the Hortilux fixtures just the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]D-Papillon 315w Luminare CDM-TP I mentioned previously?
Are they the same bulbs even?
I can't make out if the Philips CDM-TMW Elite 315w and the Philips CDM-TP Elite 315w are the same bulbs.
Sometimes I think they are and Philips just changed the name or if they are different stages of development (assuming CDM-TP is an older version and CDM-TMW the newest, most developed?)...
Anyway, let us assume the CDM-TMW and CDM-TP are the same for a second:
The D-Papillon 315w Luminare fixtures I found for 400 bucks, including the CDM-TP daylight lamp, all in.
Using the part numbers and help I got here, I ended up at about 400-450 bucks for a DIY fixture which would use something like a classic azerwing reflector or something of the sort.
From the price alone, it would make sense for me to go for the D-Paps for 400 bucks because I would pay the same or more for my DIY cdm.
But I read elsewhere that the D-Paps were considered the weakest among the cdm fixtures. Among other reasons I remember people stating that the reflector creates hotspots and isn't "it"... I have in my head how people say every other cdm fixture they bought or made themselves outperforms the d-paps.
Like I said, if I spent 400 bucks or more for a light, I want to have the best and nothing but the best. If I would settle for less, I could get 600 or 1k watt fixture with a magnetic ballast and stay well below 200 bucks per fixture...
Really not sure if I should get the hortilux/d-pap fixtures for 400 bucks now or DIY my own fixtures for the same price or slightly more...
Guess that mostly depends on the Philips CDM-TMW and CDM-TP being the same or different lights ...
Cheers folks!
[/FONT]
TMW lamps (T9) are for closed fixtures. TP lamps (T12) are for open or closed fixtures.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
And here I sat thinking that's what the socket description is for...
I kept looking for PGZ18 vs PGZX18 to determine the difference between light for open vs. enclosed fixture.
Thanks for the clearup Jhhnn!! Very helpful! Have some +rep
I kept looking for PGZ18 vs PGZX18 to determine the difference between light for open vs. enclosed fixture.
Thanks for the clearup Jhhnn!! Very helpful! Have some +rep
And here I sat thinking that's what the socket description is for...
I kept looking for PGZ18 vs PGZX18 to determine the difference between light for open vs. enclosed fixture.
Thanks for the clearup Jhhnn!! Very helpful! Have some +rep
Actually, they are related.
The PGZX18 socket is meant to be used in open fixtures and will only accept the T12 lamps. The PGZ18 socket is for use in enclosed fixtures and will accept either the T9 or T12 lamps.
The rub seems to be that only the PGZ18 socket is available, or was at the time I was looking for them.
It always sets me to wondering if the commercial open fixture units have pgzx lamp holders. They should, but that doesn't necessarily mean much in the grow light biz.
Similar issues exist wrt enclosed fixture rated MH lamps in open fixtures intended for HPS lamps.
Explosive lamp failure is obviously rare but it's nothing to be ignored, either.
Safety first, guys & gals. It's an un-regrettable choice.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
I found the PGZX18 socket available here and there.
Currently mailing with a manufacturer to see what minimum order and price are.
Not being restricted to the cdm-tmw but being able to use the cdm-tp made a huge difference.
I suspect the PGZX18 socket to cost me between 15 and 25 bucks a piece. Let's go with 25.
The cdm-tp 315w 942 I found for 95 bucks.
The ballast for 175 bucks.
So ballast+socket+light would come out to about 295, make it 300 bucks.
The cheapest price I could find for the d-paps was 400 bucks.
I have 1 reflector in storage so that is free and just has to be re-fitted with the PGZX18 socket. So Fixture number 1 would be 300 bucks.
Fixture number 2 I need to buy the azerwing reflector, used, from someone. I think I will have to cough up at least 30, maybe up to 50.
So fixture 2 is about 350 bucks.
If I want to get the third fixture, I need to get a reflector, new. Or DIY one.
Would probably want to get another azerwing reflector and them bitches run between 75 and 120 bucks.
So fixture 3 would be 375-420 bucks.
I think my best option at the moment is to build 2 fixtures with the 2 reflectors I have/can get for cheap and for the third fixture buy a d-pap for 400 bucks.
I also put out feelers to ask what the E40 to PGZX18 adaptor from Spain costs. If the price is comparable to the PGZX18 socket I might get the adaptors instead, then I don't have to re-fit the reflectors with the PGZX18 socket either.
What do you guys think?
Worth it to buy another reflector and make the third fixture myself as well or do you think going for the d-pap for fixture 3 is the right move since price will be about the same and I save myself the work?
Currently mailing with a manufacturer to see what minimum order and price are.
Not being restricted to the cdm-tmw but being able to use the cdm-tp made a huge difference.
I suspect the PGZX18 socket to cost me between 15 and 25 bucks a piece. Let's go with 25.
The cdm-tp 315w 942 I found for 95 bucks.
The ballast for 175 bucks.
So ballast+socket+light would come out to about 295, make it 300 bucks.
The cheapest price I could find for the d-paps was 400 bucks.
I have 1 reflector in storage so that is free and just has to be re-fitted with the PGZX18 socket. So Fixture number 1 would be 300 bucks.
Fixture number 2 I need to buy the azerwing reflector, used, from someone. I think I will have to cough up at least 30, maybe up to 50.
So fixture 2 is about 350 bucks.
If I want to get the third fixture, I need to get a reflector, new. Or DIY one.
Would probably want to get another azerwing reflector and them bitches run between 75 and 120 bucks.
So fixture 3 would be 375-420 bucks.
I think my best option at the moment is to build 2 fixtures with the 2 reflectors I have/can get for cheap and for the third fixture buy a d-pap for 400 bucks.
I also put out feelers to ask what the E40 to PGZX18 adaptor from Spain costs. If the price is comparable to the PGZX18 socket I might get the adaptors instead, then I don't have to re-fit the reflectors with the PGZX18 socket either.
What do you guys think?
Worth it to buy another reflector and make the third fixture myself as well or do you think going for the d-pap for fixture 3 is the right move since price will be about the same and I save myself the work?
You might check out the sockets and adapters from Mitronix - they are of excellent quality and the company stands behind their products unreservedly. However, I think that they still only have the PGZ18 versions available.
Regarding the D-Pap, if the light distribution and the quality of the materials is what you want, then it would make sense to save yourself the effort and get a warranty in the process. If not, or if it might be important at some point for all of the fixtures to be the same, then building it yourself is probably the way to go.
Regarding the D-Pap, if the light distribution and the quality of the materials is what you want, then it would make sense to save yourself the effort and get a warranty in the process. If not, or if it might be important at some point for all of the fixtures to be the same, then building it yourself is probably the way to go.
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Hadn't even thought about the warranty aspect...
While manufacturers have to give me warranty on the parts themselves, I can well imagine that if there is a failure, the whole "yeah but is it our product or did you wire it wrong?"-process would start up.
Been there before ...
I shall reconsider, yet again
While manufacturers have to give me warranty on the parts themselves, I can well imagine that if there is a failure, the whole "yeah but is it our product or did you wire it wrong?"-process would start up.
Been there before ...
I shall reconsider, yet again
Benefits of Open Fixture
Benefits of Open Fixture
The benefit is more light reaches the plants. Closed fixtures have a protective glass over them. There's light loss whenever there's extra glass in the way. Especially as it pertains to UV-B, which (from all I've read) most UV-B is lost when it hits the extra glass of a closed fixture.
That said, closed fixtures are beneficial when you need to dissipate heat, as is the case with HPS lamps. However, the CMH 315w lamps just don't produce enough heat to create any real need to choose a closed fixture.
So my two cents? If you're going with CMH, stay away from closed fixtures. No need to waste the CMH light.
Benefits of Open Fixture
The benefit is more light reaches the plants. Closed fixtures have a protective glass over them. There's light loss whenever there's extra glass in the way. Especially as it pertains to UV-B, which (from all I've read) most UV-B is lost when it hits the extra glass of a closed fixture.
That said, closed fixtures are beneficial when you need to dissipate heat, as is the case with HPS lamps. However, the CMH 315w lamps just don't produce enough heat to create any real need to choose a closed fixture.
So my two cents? If you're going with CMH, stay away from closed fixtures. No need to waste the CMH light.
Kinda-sorta. Visible light transmittance of clear glass is ~90% so there is some loss w/ enclosed fixtures. If a grower is using refrigerated air then open fixtures have an advantage. OTOH, that's expensive to operate & impractical under many circumstances. With air cooling it's much easier to control temps using enclosed fixtures. It's also easier to control fan noise because air circulation thru the enclosure can be reduced.
I saw this in my local hydro store the other day, I was interested until I saw the price, they were asking $650.
http://www.hydrogalaxy.com/lighting...ZRpflwZweJPEox0G9WsFNXL10UpcFpafFTRoCjxHw_wcB
http://www.hydrogalaxy.com/lighting...ZRpflwZweJPEox0G9WsFNXL10UpcFpafFTRoCjxHw_wcB
Just wondering where you found the dPaps for $400 … that is a very good price.
Regarding performance of the dPaps …. you can cheek out a few threads on british and oz forums, as they seem to use them due to the 240v.
Not sure if this will work … but these two make for interesting reading about dPAP performance:
https://cannabis.community.forums.o...-phillips-315w-lec-with-d-papillon-reflector/
https://cannabis.community.forums.ozstoners.com/topic/75320-stans-big-bash-with-new-lights/
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
Hiya,
it was actually an error on the shops website...
Thought it was a promo, guy kept insisting on the phone that the bulbs were included.
Long story short, they weren't.
400 bucks seems the standard "low price" for the fixtures alone around here. Bulbs have to be purchased extra.
I ended up going with Dimlux for about the same price (~700 for the 630 and ~500 for the 315)
Thanks BBB … how's the dimlux treating you?
bigbadbiddy
Well-known member
It's looking judgementally at me and asking me how long till it can fulfill its purpose in life
My next step is mixing my soil, testing, getting the water tested, hand in both results here and ask the smart heads if the soil/water combo be good.
Parallel to that I have to continue construction on the room itself and then prepare the veg chamber so I can start.
Still a bit of work ahead of me before I can fire the dimlux up.
My next step is mixing my soil, testing, getting the water tested, hand in both results here and ask the smart heads if the soil/water combo be good.
Parallel to that I have to continue construction on the room itself and then prepare the veg chamber so I can start.
Still a bit of work ahead of me before I can fire the dimlux up.
