Central Air Conditioning Experts In Regards To Multiple Zones

[Snype]

Harvesting has become a real pain for me. I don't believe in machines for trimming. I think harvesting 4,000 watts at 1 time is the most that I want to go. Each location has roughly 16,000 Watts for flowering. I'm splitting up each location to 4 rooms for flowering. It will be a 25' x 25' square. In that square will contain 4 separate rooms for flowering. The reason why the rooms need to be separate is because I have to VEG for 12 days in each flowering room in a RDWC system that I call VEG-B. Each location will have a harvest every 2 weeks so harvesting can be more manageable.

These rooms are going to be sealed rooms. I'm thinking of possibly running it as a flip flop because it would require a smaller AC because the AC would only have to cool 2 rooms at a time or 8,000 Watts at a time.

My questions have more to do with the returns, zones and CO2.

1. Would I want a return for each room when I'm using CO2?

2. Where would be the best place to put the return and why?

3. Should I put bottled CO2 in each room or should I place all the tanks where the return is? (Taking account if the return is not in the grow rooms)

I'm basically confused by the return on the Central Air System. My AC guy said to put the return in a different room. He said it didn't matter where. I'm assuming the return would help with controlling humidity but how would it help the humidity of each grow room if the return wasn't even contained in the grow rooms. I wanted to get a AC unit that controlled the humidity for each room. I would assume that I would need a return for each room in that case but I don't know anything about Central Air. From what the other AC guy is telling me about keeping the return in a different room from the grow, it sort of hints that Central Air is not a closed system. This is somewhat confusing for me. I've tried to research this on google but I'm hoping someone else can explain it to me so I can understand what is my best approach. Thanks.

 

[CmdrAppleton]

Use ductless minisplit unit with four zones. Maybe two dual zone 3 ton units with 18kbtu air handlers.

 

[Snype]

Use ductless minisplit unit with four zones. Maybe two dual zone 3 ton units with 18kbtu air handlers.

I stated that I need to use Central Air. I want top of the line everything. I guess you didn't read my questions. Anyone?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

sounds kind of tricky to run a central in that many rooms, unless you have them lined up next to each other and have a huge lung room. i guess thats why cmd recommended mini splits because it would make it much easier.

also for smaller rooms of only 8kw mini splits would work fine if you have a reputable brand. once your room hits 15-20kw than central air become more necessary as the cfm of a mini split air handler is not enough for a huge space.

im in a similar situation trying to figure out what AC route to go. leaning with 4 tons per 8kw and thinking about excels. too bad they are so fucking expensive, each room basically needs a 6-7k AC.

also its best to put the handler outside but not terrible if its inside.

 

[Snype]

sounds kind of tricky to run a central in that many rooms, unless you have them lined up next to each other and have a huge lung room. i guess thats why cmd recommended mini splits because it would make it much easier.

also for smaller rooms of only 8kw mini splits would work fine if you have a reputable brand. once your room hits 15-20kw than central air become more necessary as the cfm of a mini split air handler is not enough for a huge space.

im in a similar situation trying to figure out what AC route to go. leaning with 4 tons per 8kw and thinking about excels. too bad they are so fucking expensive, each room basically needs a 6-7k AC.

also its best to put the handler outside but not terrible if its inside.

I believe that mini-splits use many more watts than central air. I also want to set up my vents in specific places. A mini-split doesn't look right to me. I know they can work but I know central air will be better. Thanks for the info. Still trying to figure out where the CO2 would go. Can you explain the lung room. I assume that's where the return goes and it sucks air from the lung room and blows it into the flowering rooms? If that's true, wouldn't I be better off placing a CO2 generator in the lung room instead of having bottled CO2 in each flower room?

 

[Yes4Prop215]

not sure about co2 location to be honest i would assume just put it in the room like most guys.

if your on instagram check out SureWouldForest, he has a cool picture of all his central Acs stacked up in the lung room. I'm a visual learner so helped me figure out things a lot.

 

[Jhhnn]

I stated that I need to use Central Air. I want top of the line everything. I guess you didn't read my questions. Anyone?

You might want to investigate a commercial grade chiller and fan coil units in each area. There's not necessarily any ducting, just pipes with pumped chilled water/ antifreeze running to each fan coil unit. Each area has its own thermostat & zone valve. It's ubiquitous in commercial buildings of any size at all. Def high end- you'll know from the price. Very old school, very versatile.

The system can also have a hot water boiler, with the caveat that simpler systems can only do heating or cooling, not both at the same time.

Dunno if that stuff is available in small enough capacity for your purpose.

I get the impression that you're a successful med grower, so you shouldn't have any issues bringing in a contractor/ engineering firm to put it together after figuring the heat loads, matching it to hardware.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Yo Snype,

I'm actually in the process of designing the same exact thing. My research has definately taken me int he same direction as yours; Central air > Mini Splits. We want these things cranking CFM's AMIRITE?? ^_^

Let me drop some of the info I have to see if this can better help you..

Stealth A/C makes these things:
http://monstergardens.com/Excel-Air-Systems-Motorized-Dual-Damper-Package

Allows you to use 1 Central A/c w/ 2 rooms. Each room has 1 Supply, 1 Return. You need the return in each room in order to recycle the air, dehumidify it, recool, and return to growing environment.

But, as I'm sure you know, Stealth A/C units are just repackaged shit A/C's with quick connects. So what we really need is 1 Central A/C w/ a 4 zone system. I've seen alot of people recommending goodman. They seem to be reliable, and push some legit air.



Everything I've read seems to be that the return needs to be each room in this scenario too;

Have you considered getting a custom PLC built for your needs? Control 1 AC + C02 + all humidity equipment + lights + anything else from one main box?

The zoning would be 4 dampers hooked up to the main plenum, or have a main trunk, w/ 4 branches + dampers. Im not the design guy, but i was thinking about just paying to get someone to design it for me.

 

[budleydoright]

...snip

Let me drop some of the info I have to see if this can better help you..

Stealth A/C makes these things:
http://monstergardens.com/Excel-Air-Systems-Motorized-Dual-Damper-Package

.

That's friggin cool. I bet every city in the US has a mechanical metal shop that could bang that out for under a grand.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

A lung room is just a air conditioning room. It is where you take the air from your flower or veg area to be replenished with CO2, have it cooled or heated, and to remove excess moisture. This allows you to set up one time all the major equipment.

Running four rooms also allows you to manage your plants better. With this set up you can treat plants that are ealy in flower with out affecting later flowering plants. This set up will allow you to prevent infected rooms to cross over to other rooms that are not infected with molds or mites ect. You just need to be careful to not enter a uninfected room after working in a infected room to prevent cross contamination.

The one thing you may want in your rooms is some kind of humidifier to bring up the humidity if you want to keep your other rooms at a lower humidity.

What I do with my seperate rooms is just dry the plant in the room itself. Then trim it dry. I was running into trouble getting my plants trimmed and had to hash about 8 pounds last year. If I dry the plants in the rooms and keep the air at about 60% I can trim here and there when I have time. This is only if you have the extra room because it will take away from you number of cycles per year.

 

[Snype]

This shit is getting confusing. My AC guy is being a fucking dickhead when I made his dumb ass 30k on a grow and he's avoiding me. So I'm thinking of going with 2 of these packages instead:

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsu...at=cat1094&subCat=cat1037&trail=5206:15 + 15#

If anyone has anything to say about this, please let me know.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I don't think that is enough btu's to cool 8K of lights.

If you do get it you need to look at a cool weather adaptor if it does not have one already. Mine freezes in the cold weather but I have a different brand. Another option is to build a cover that can be closed to keep the heat in when it is cold out.

 

[Snype]

I don't think that is enough btu's to cool 8K of lights.

If you do get it you need to look at a cool weather adaptor if it does not have one already. Mine freezes in the cold weather but I have a different brand. Another option is to build a cover that can be closed to keep the heat in when it is cold out.

Each of those packages goes into 2 different rooms. There will be 4 rooms which will require 2 of what was in my link. Roughly $7k which is rated for 72,800 BTU's. Here's some specs:

Nominal Capacity (BTU) 15,000 x 4
Cooling Capacity (BTU) 18,200 x 4
Heating Capacity (BTU) 20,900 x 4

I know I can get away with 3500 BTU's per light in my area but I'd rather be at 4,000 BTU. At 4,000 BTU's per light x 16 lights, I need 64,000 BTU's of AC. 72,800 BTU's is what I would get with 2 orders in the link above. I'm not sure if you were confused with what I said. The link that I posted contains 2 mini-splits. I'm getting 2 orders which would equal 4 mini-splits and 2 condensers. I also need 2 cold weather adaptors as well.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

My mistake I didn't see you were getting two units.

Did I mention I have some really good Deathstar here to smoke? Haha sorry.

 

[Snype]

My mistake I didn't see you were getting two units.

Did I mention I have some really good Deathstar here to smoke? Haha sorry.

All good. Tell me more about the cold weather adapter. My HVAC guy does that but he won't talk to me.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I don't have one so I can't say. Bobblehead uses a three sided dog house to keep his warm enough. He just closes the one side to trap enough heat to keep his lines from freezing. Or something like that. The unit does not freeze but the line set does. If you can keep that from freezing you can still use the outside unit. Mine freezes right at the outside unit where the lineset attaches. So some kind of enclosure to trap some of the heat given off would keep the linesets from freezing.

I just have a fan with a thermostat to control it dump cold air into my lung room. My AC cost $400-500 a month to run and the fan cost $20. I just stir it up good in the lung room so it mixes with the hot air from the flower rooms and then I don't have cold air dumped into the flower rooms. I get a lot of condensation from it though.

 

[Snype]

I don't have one so I can't say. Bobblehead uses a three sided dog house to keep his warm enough. He just closes the one side to trap enough heat to keep his lines from freezing. Or something like that. The unit does not freeze but the line set does. If you can keep that from freezing you can still use the outside unit. Mine freezes right at the outside unit where the lineset attaches. So some kind of enclosure to trap some of the heat given off would keep the linesets from freezing.

I just have a fan with a thermostat to control it dump cold air into my lung room. My AC cost $400-500 a month to run and the fan cost $20. I just stir it up good in the lung room so it mixes with the hot air from the flower rooms and then I don't have cold air dumped into the flower rooms. I get a lot of condensation from it though.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't understand why I need a lung room. The mini splits go in each flower room and the condenser goes outside. Having another room called a lung room doesn't make any sense to me. Am I missing something? I don't need to dump air. My rooms are sealed with 900 PPM's of CO2.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Sorry I was just saying I don't run my AC when it is cold out I run a fan to bring in cool air. That is why I don't have a cold weather adaptor.

 

[the gnome]

This shit is getting confusing. My AC guy is being a fucking dickhead when I made his dumb ass 30k on a grow and he's avoiding me. So I'm thinking of going with 2 of these packages instead:

https://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsubishi-Air-Conditioners/MXZ-3B30NA-MSZ-GE15NA-MSZ-GE15NA-30000-BTU-17-5-SEER-Heat-Pump/19715.ac?catId=cat1034&mainCat=cat1094&subCat=cat1037&trail=5206:15%20+%2015#

If anyone has anything to say about this, please let me know.

i have a mitsu, 32,500btu 16 seer
it comes with a low temp ambient kit
I'm running 6000Ws of open bulb in a 14 x 20ft room
gas co2 burner and all mag ballasts/equip are in the room.
it handles the load no prob.
it's on it's own meter
in veg 18hrs a day average temps 80-82F
the bill is under $170.

I'm thinking of adding another 1000-2000w and see what happens,
maybe move the mag ballasts out of the room.
they run 150--164F, my nano lux is 95F so lots of heat coming off the mags.

all in all I am more than happy with the mitsu mini split

 

[whatthe215]

zoning is pretty easy. i prefer to have separate returns for each room. returns and supply lines on dampers. opposite sides of the room, return near exhaust side. tunnel affect. bypass damper too.

honeywell zoning controller is reliable, cheapo 1 week program thermostats are great.

a 4ton zoned to 2x 8light rooms would be easier/cheaper but you could zone a 4ton to 4x 4light rooms with separate supply/return ducts for each.

get quality dampers and set em up right, especially if you're running CO2. they could leak CO2 to your night room (if you care.)