Cause of mutations?

[WhamoBlamo]

I recently started 16 seeds/ 4 of 4 varieties. Three of the 4 varieties are doing excellent, the fourth are all mutated or distorted or sumthin'. Is it a problem that can be corrected? The seeds were sprouted in a moist paper towel and transplanted to 4" pots in a 75% Sphagnum peat and 25% perlite mix. I have used a mild solution of root juice and earth juice grow at 400ppm with a 5.75 pH. They are under a 600W HPS and 400W MH the lamps are 48"s above the plants in a 4'X4' home box with CanFan 33 combo. The average day temp is about 75 to 80 degrees F with a night temp of 65F on a 19/6 light schedule. The mutated or affected strain is G-13 x Blueberry Sativa. Thanks to anyone who has so info on what I am doing wrong or possible problems with this strain. Could the pH and peat lower the pH enough to cause this but not affect the other var.

 

[sproutco]

in a 75% Sphagnum peat and 25% perlite mix.

Did you add dolomite lime? Its possible the nutritional status of the seedling is being affected by how the mother plant was being treated when the seed was made. If this is the case then they should just grow out of it. The pictures aren't terribly clear.

 

[WhamoBlamo]

No dolomite lime, should I be using lime? That lowers pH right? It seems like the one in the pics is still growing but the other 3 are not doing much. Thanks for the repy Sproutco!

 

[sproutco]

Your using peatmoss with no lime at all??? You should test the ph of your soil. I bet its incredibly low.

 

[WhamoBlamo]

Here are some more pics , that's about the best quality I can provide with my camera

 

[WhamoBlamo]

Would't the low pH affect the other plants in the same mix?

 

[WhamoBlamo]

My run off water has a pH of 7.6 if I run filtered water with a pH of 8.3 through the medium

 

[sproutco]

Test the soil ph using the pour through method. This requires distilled water. You plants look wet so its a good time anyway. Directions for testing ph are in my signature. Report back as soon as possible. I bet your ph is too low with no lime.

 

[WhamoBlamo]

Thanks Sproutco! I have to go to work ! I'll try your method later. Thanks again

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I think it's just the BB pheno coming out...BB is known to show mutations...

 

[Guest]

yep....mutations can just be genetic. Can also be caused by the environment it's in.

I would add the dolomitie lime though....a steady pH is essential for quality plant health.

And quality plant health is essential for quality buds :wink:

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I think that the term mutant, is often used in this context as a slang term for an unusual appearance...
I've seen quite a few seedlings which initially were stunted, or had an odd appearance. These will usually 'straighten out' as they mature...
A true genetic mutation will display traits not found in any of the previous generations.
This trait is part of the mutant plants makeup and is usually not outgrown.
Usually a very small percentage of mutations are beneficial.

The fact that all four appear similarly is indicative of a trait of the strain, not a genetic mutation.

 

[sproutco]

This is really interesting!

This is really interesting!

When I first saw these plants I though they might have a virus. Really interesting. This could be transmitted by the mother plants. This could explain why only 1 type of seed is being affected by the growing conditions. See quote. Bad nutrition in the mother plant can also be passed down in the seed. Like zinc deficiency. So, this would also be something to consider. You definately need dolomite lime when using peatmoss.http://mojo.calyx.net/~olsen/HEMP/IHA/iha03111.html

Viruses rarely kill Cannabis. They only exist and replicate in living plants. Viruses can, however, seriously reduce yields. Once acquired, they are nearly impossible to eradicate. Viruses invade all parts of plants. Pollen and seed infections transmit viruses to subsequent generations.
Five viral syndromes are described in the literature. In addition to these naturally-occurring infections, Hartowicz et al. (1971) screened 22 common plant viruses for their ability to infect wild hemp. Over half the viruses could infect Cannabis.
The hemp streak virus (HSV) is frequently cited on fiber cultivars in Europe. Foliar symptoms begin as a pale green chlorosis. Chlorotic areas soon develop into a series of interveinal yellow streaks or chevron-stripes. Some-times brown necrotic flecks appear, each fleck surrounded by a pale green halo. Flecks appear along the margins and tips of older leaves and often coalesce. Streak symptoms predominate in moist weather, flecks appear during dry weather. Leaf margins become wrinkled and leaf tips roll upward, leaflets curl into spirals. Whole plants assume a "wavy wilt" appearance.
The hemp mozaic virus has been described on fiber cultivars in Europe and drug cultivars in Pakistan. Symptoms were described as a gray leaf mosaics. Three other viruses have been cited on European hemp—the alfalfa mozaic virus (=lucerne mozaic virus), cucumber mozaic virus, and the arabis mozaic virus. Many insects transmit these viruses as they feed from plant to plant. According to Ceapoiu (1958), the worst vectors of Cannabis viruses are bhang aphids (Phorodon cannabis), greenhouse whiteflies (Trialeudodes vaporariorum), onion thrips (Thrips tabaci) and green peach aphids (Myzus persicae).

And to further add intrest:

Symptoms by viruses resemble those caused by mutations, nutrient deficiencys or toxicities, insect or mite feeding damage or other pathogens or other factors.

That quote was from Agrios at the University of Florida.

But mutants are possible... http://mojo.calyx.net/~olsen/HEMP/IHA/iha03111.html

Genetic diseases are common. Bócsa (1958) describes some consequences of inbred hemp e.g. short stature (only 68% the height of normal hemp), shortened lifespan (vegetative growth 9 weeks shorter than normal plants), production of sterile seeds, and increased susceptibility to fungal diseases. Crescini (1956) describes plant fasciation, ramification of stems, and strange pinnate phyllotaxy in mutagenic, inbred hemp. Borodina & Migal (1987) illustrate flower fasciation and other teratologies in monoecious plants. Lai (1985) describes the deleterious effects of inbreeding on yield of fiber and seed. Sitnik (1981) says "yellow stem" disease in the Ukraine is genetic, caused by a monogenic recessive mutation. The gene involved has a pleiotropic effect on plant yields, it decreases biomass, fiber and seed production.

 

[afropips]

Hiya,
Which Breeder are they from?
Malformed Mutants are the pits.
I would get a refund If I were you.

Mutants are caused by missing pieces of the DNA sequencing that control the normal growth of the plant.
They manifest in IBL's from a limited gene pool & should be culled & never bred with.
Unfortuanately The Most respected BB breeder & many more fall foul of this basic selection procedure.

Plants can also be made to mutate by applying certain chemicals but I do not subscribe to these methods.

Cool Runnings.......

 

[WhamoBlamo]

OK, so here are some picks of the 3 other strains grown in the same media, same age, same enviroment, same nutes. None are showing any symptoms of being mutant or irregularly shaped or unusual growth. So chances are it isn't the pH? I'm picking up some dolomite at the greenhouse on monday, thanks sproutco! The mutant strain is G-13 x BB Sativa from reeferman. Has anyone else had problems with these seeds or heard of any problems, I have heard alot of good things about reeferman and forked out some cash for these and want to do what ever I can to get these to work. I must say though Gypsy is the shit and I have been completely satisfied with the papaya! This is my 2nd time with this plant and it already looks better than the other 3 strains I've started, Stonehedge, BB, and the G-13xBBSativa that all cost 7 to 10 times more cash on. Thanks gypsy! And thanks to all the great people that spend the time to answer these threads!

 

[sproutco]

Thats crazy the other seedlings look normal. Something is "up" with those seeds. Nutritional problem, virus, genetic mutation...

 

[WhamoBlamo]

well what do ya know!

well what do ya know!








t's pretty damn hard to believe that these are the same plants.. but they are. So I don't know what to say besides these might be some pretty good fuckin' bud. Cause all I need is just a little patience and everythings gonna be alright. Another thing I don't know how many other people do this but if you rub the stem and smell your fingers you get a little teaser of the aroma and this G-13 x BB Sativa smells unbeleivable , I've never smelt anything like it. If it's not a male this plants going to be covered in drool by the time it's done flowering. It might not be a breeder but it might be a smoker, dunno. The one plant out of this pack of seeds that is clone worthy might definetly be worth the hundo. I also have some bluberry from DP that I'm having the same problem with there Afropip so I guess the bottom line is if you don't want to fuck around and spend alot of time finding that one KILLER plant out of a whole pack of seeds don't buy bb strains unless you've found ones that don't mutate. I'll follow up with a growreport just for the sake of the strain. So if I where to get a male and bred it with say a mango would the next gen. carry these unwanted mutations or would the chances get slimmer?

 

[Sgt Greenbud]

More than likely, genetics. Where did the seeds come from? A verified source?
Often like some others said, they just grow out of it. But that doesn't mean there's not something going on genetically that you might not really want there. In my experience its usually genetics and a sign of other problems to come. Get better genetics. Its worth the trouble every time.
A plant with solid genetics is going to do better than a plant with questionable genetics regardless of the medium they share.

 

[dre86]

Had a 'mutant' too in my current grow, just grew out of it. Had exactly the same soil as the others and same environment. Probably genetics or damage during germination

 

[WhamoBlamo]

Sausage party

Sausage party

And the conclusion is..... nothing. All mutant and male so that's all she wrote.