cant seem to find the happy medium

[dbfr3sh]

im going on my 2nd indoor grow with my first t5 grow a great success. i started my 6 plants in the same stuff ive used before and two weeks old and there were no problems. i waited into almost the 3rd week to transplant into their 3 gallon pots. the mix i used came from the pots of my old harvest. it sat for a little over a month, i mixed it weekly and added some fresh FFOF to it to replenish stuff that it might have lost. so once i transplanted them i gave them a little water which i guess was a mistake bc the soil was already wet and hot from sitting in the bag. i used this soil on my other grow with no problems at all. after a couple of days the plants took a big turn for the worst. yellowing, necrosis, just a big mess and i thot it was from all the nutrients that were in the soil previously. so what did i do flushed.... ugh that took it to a new level where i was almost to the point of chopping them all down and starting over, but i cant im at about a month old veg now and im hoping to be flowering by next week if i can get this problem fixed. ive let them dry for 4 days now with no water, temps at 84 RH at 50% and it seems like its spreading up the plant. i have one plant that only has 6 fan leaves out of 10+ that should have been. if the new growth is coming out greener will these plants still make it? i was waiting for the pots to dry out more to add some epsons salt and a small amount of meta-k but i dont really know when because i dont want to overwater again.

i will post pics later tonight of my sick ladies. hope they spring back.

 

[dbfr3sh]

sorry for the rant...bad morning hada burn one before getting online. so here are the pictures of my crappy ladies...

they were started under t5s until beginning of week 3 then they were transpanted and put under a 400w hps aircooled. this crap started shortly after when i THOUGHT they needed water so i did and they went downhill. along that time my temps were over 88*F. they started getting worst and worst and as i last ditch attempt i tried to flush thinking mayb the soil was too hot from composting for them. this of course made them worst so for the last 4 days i havent watered them, i almost dug around the sides of the buckets to turn over the wet dirt and mix in some dry dirt from the top layer in hopes it drys out more.

the first picture is doing great and seems to be pushing on but the other two are seriously overwatered but the tops are coming out greener than before so im starting to see a slow recovery i might just kill the worst one and make room for the rest. im not sure where to go from here. it seems like i always have problems at this stage but my other strain from the last run seemed to favor up more.

any other suggestions would be appreciated, there all fem seeds so id like to try to save them all if i can....

 

[D.I.trY]

they dont look overwatered but underfed. They were probably able to sustain a slow growth rate with healthy appearance with the meagre nutrients available under the t5s. Under a 400W hps its a different story- deficiencies occur when demand outstrips supply.

 

[dbfr3sh]

so you think i should feed? the soil has bat guano, ffof, molasses, im sure there is nutrients availible plus there a month old today that shouldnt need that much.

 

[20north]

i would try and re pot those and buy alot of perlite it looks like your medium lacks that you should see nothin but white and a little brown in how i make my mixes you need to air out your medium! to make it happy! thats all your prob gonna need to know other than that you can always go buy coco pro mixes with lots of airy medium thats what i did first couple times

 

[dbfr3sh]

i added about ~24oz of perlite when i was mixing my old soil with the new. the old soil i used on my last grow did really well and i never had this problem with the soil. i mixed what i had left over from last grow and let it compost with new FFOF mixed in and then i added the 24oz of more perlite, there is definatly more than there was on my other grow and i figured to add more perlite because the old soil probably condensed a little bit.


i was told that organic soil is fine to use over again, i pulled out the rootballs from the last grow and then let the soil heat up for about a month, mixed it, then transplanted at a little over 3 weeks old and nothings gotten better.

im seeing really slow progress out of these ladies and i still havent watered in fear of putting them over the top. i would hate to lose out on a months veg with these. im going to water tmrw with a light 1tsp of meta-k and some epson salts and see if we get any more progress. *new growth is still coming in really green so it seems like the damage has finished but the necrosis seems to keep going....idk what is causing this to spread.

 

[joebean91]

You really should get new soil everytime , I recommend pro-mix or sunshine mix ( #4 is my favorite ). From what you have posted the problem lies in your used soil , unless we are missing some information . I have had this happen before with seedlings of the same age , I was trying coco for the first time and failed to properly rinse the coco before using . This resulted in excess potassium causing many problems / lockout of other nutrients etc. . My plants looked identical to yours at this point . I would suggest watering 1/4 strength or less veg nutrients and definitely not the meta-k . Most likely there is too much nutrient salts in your medium for these young plants . Get some fresh soilless mix with no nutrients added and Transplant them ASAP , they should pull through in a few days .

 

[dbfr3sh]

if it is my soil then what would u make of the newest growth being green? wouldnt i still have the same problem if the soil was my issue? not trying to be a punk but i kno i asked in the organics section whether it was ok or not to use prior dirt. mixture of old soil/ new soil/ perlite. and also if this was the case of too much salt buildup why would only a couple plants be affected and not others? i have a week left before flowering i was hopeing to get my pots dried out before then and let the plants eat from the soils nutrients that there are ( i havent added anything for nutes besides whats in the soil), then starting in the 2nd week of flowering i will start the meta-k and bloom nutrients.

picture below is the same dirt, same everything except the strain is different. after these plants were almost finished i flushed with spring water for a week...i think most of salts woulda been flushed out before composting for a month and then mixed together.

sorry to keep at this thread but i just dont believe these plants can have such an negitive effect when the previous ones never went yellow even at harvest.

 

[southpaw]

Was there any dolomite in your old soil? Did you mix any in with the FFOF? How much FFOF did you mix with your old soil? It's kind of hard to "read" the leaves in the pics you posted, but it sounds like your new mix might have burnt the new transplants.

I wouldn't add more ferts to the soil right now, since there should be plenty in there from the new soil. Maybe brew up a very mild worm castings tea to get your soil microlife back up and running. If you actually do have a Mg deficiency, maybe foliar with the Epsom salts while you get your root zone in order.

And this is really just a question of style, but IMO, young plants do better under flouros. Are you dead set on running the 400 right now, or would you think about switching back to the T5s until you flip to 12/12?

 

[dbfr3sh]

no dolimite lime but the ffof has ground seashell as a subsitute. i just foliar fed with some epsom salts today and they seem fine. i rotate them every once in a while to make sure there still reacting to the light. im only vegging for a week more so do u think it would be worth it to change it now back to the t5s for another week and then change back again?

as for the mix...the old mix was ffof, perlite, jamacian bat guano, and mollasses that was used at the end of flowering along with bloom ferts but like i said they were flushed for a week. after harvest i disposed of the rootballs and let the soil compost for about a month or so. along with this soil i added about a half bag ffof and 3 cups of perlite. i havent given the plants any veg nutrients and they were transplanted into this mix at 3 weeks old. like i had said i thot they were being burned by the soil so i tried to flush which led to more overwatering so i havent watered in 4-5days to dry out and the new growth is very green now. note: not all plants reacted like this (3 out of 7), no perticular strain or reason. im going to water tmrw before the lights turn on and give them a small amount around the plant in order to get the roots to branch out. i dug up the worst one to check the roots and they still appear white with some with a yellow tint.

 

[joebean91]

you said it >> " the previous ones never went yellow even at harvest " " like I said they were flushed for a week " These statements pretty much confirm my suspicions ; your soil has not been truly flushed before harvest . Your previous plants could handle it , they were adults ? . The seedlings not so much . Also you can reuse soil , many people pull it off with no problems , some don't . IMO it's best to start fresh . Anyway I could be wrong , just had a hunch having had a very similar problem in the past . I wish you well , however you choose to approach this .

 

[dbfr3sh]

thanks....no huge difference yet although they all are producing new green growth and i started watering around the transplanted plant to get the roots to grow outward. ive been mixing the dirt inside the pots around the rootball to dry out the sides faster. this seems to be working as all the tops are pointing upward towards the light. today i gave them a small amount of water to get things flowing again. no problems yet...also i took out my reflector inside my aircooled hood, it looked very cheap an mayb giving me some hot spots and some temp increases.

ill update as soon as i can get some respectable pictures. thanks for your suggestions and keep them coming if anyone can think of some remedies.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

wow your first crop looks really good, ive never seen flowering plants that dark!!

im betting the culprit it your re-use of the soil.

you veg plants looked kinda like my partners did, yellowish and wilting. all he did was throw a little GH micro into his waterings at my reccomendation =) and the plants greened up nicely!

 

[dbfr3sh]

yea my last plants were amazing....still tokin em. i was thinking the soil as well but out of the 3 gallons there in now only about 1 gallon is used dirt and the other 2 gallons is new dirt and perlite. also like i said not all are doing this...this IS MY first time w/ an hps but i have it cooled over 16in away ATM. i think i may put them back under the t5s for a week and see if i can get them back to normal and then try to re-introduce the hps. temps were high at first but now i have it 83 during the day and 78 at night, how is it still that my buckets arent dry yet when i had almost 90* temps in the beginning? they are pulling thru still and i hope that ill see some much needed progress during this next week

 

[southpaw]

yea my last plants were amazing....still tokin em. i was thinking the soil as well but out of the 3 gallons there in now only about 1 gallon is used dirt and the other 2 gallons is new dirt and perlite. also like i said not all are doing this...this IS MY first time w/ an hps but i have it cooled over 16in away ATM. i think i may put them back under the t5s for a week and see if i can get them back to normal and then try to re-introduce the hps. temps were high at first but now i have it 83 during the day and 78 at night, how is it still that my buckets arent dry yet when i had almost 90* temps in the beginning? they are pulling thru still and i hope that ill see some much needed progress during this next week

3 gallons is a lot of soil for a young plant. And if I read your posts correctly, you also tried flushing the pots correct? Those containers are going to stay wet for a while, especially in a humus rich mix.

This is going to be hard (trust me, I've been there), but you need to leave them alone for a few days. All of this digging, transplanting, and overwatering causes stress. They will not die if you just let them be. They might if you "overlove" them.

Let the mix dry, keep the temps reasonable, and admit that your flowering schedule might have to be delayed by a week or two. Then hit them with a nice, balanced tea, and watch them thank you. By early June, you will have healthy plants ready to be flowered.

 

[TheMintMan]

Sometimes it's a good idea to get them used to the HPS before you throw them underneath it for the long haul. What I mean is...the first day put them under for an hour then back under the fluoros...second day a few hours then back under fluoros..etc. Not always necessary but sometimes going straight from fluoro to HPS can shock the shit out of little plants like those.

Good luck. :smile:

3 gallons is a lot of soil for a young plant. And if I read your posts correctly, you also tried flushing the pots correct? Those containers are going to stay wet for a while, especially in a humus rich mix.

This is going to be hard (trust me, I've been there), but you need to leave them alone for a few days. All of this digging, transplanting, and overwatering causes stress. They will not die if you just let them be. They might if you "overlove" them.

Let the mix dry, keep the temps reasonable, and admit that your flowering schedule might have to be delayed by a week or two. Then hit them with a nice, balanced tea, and watch them thank you.

I also agree with southpaw about the 3 gallons being a lot for the lil' uns.

 

[dbfr3sh]

mint man: i did put them under the hps for a week with 2 hrs under the hps, then i transplanted and put them under the hps and in the 3 gallons so there roots would expand.

southpaw: yea i flushed it was a last attempt at what i thot was burn from the soil. they have been drying for 5 days at 84*, 18hrs on. the plants are explanding there root systems downward and making better rootmass but leaves are still yellow in color.