CANNABIS DNA PROJECT

[hazednconfused]

Surely dead by now, despite being in my fridge since 1986 or 87 (always waiting for that dream move to the tropics to be able to grow them properly) but I do have some f2s of Haze that Nevil gave me, a brother-sister mating from the original seedstock. Would these be of any use? Nev gave me them to guard against eventualities (I was living in Arnhem at the time) but he never came back for them. Anyways, you probably have all the Haze you need anyway and these seeds are likely gone the way of the dodo after the better part of 30 years in my fridge.

 

[bigherb]

Surely dead by now, despite being in my fridge since 1986 or 87 (always waiting for that dream move to the tropics to be able to grow them properly) but I do have some f2s of Haze that Nevil gave me, a brother-sister mating from the original seedstock. Would these be of any use? Nev gave me them to guard against eventualities (I was living in Arnhem at the time) but he never came back for them. Anyways, you probably have all the Haze you need anyway and these seeds are likely gone the way of the dodo after the better part of 30 years in my fridge.

Do you know what the exact parents were?did you ever grow the stock indoor

Did you try n germ these seeds recently ?

Many would give there left arm for those

Sams gave Nevil his haze stock . Soo I imagine Sams has those seeds and their parents

I do hope Sams earliest haze stock would be tested for this project or possibly those seeds G still holds

Apologies for goin abit off topic

Best wishes and I look forward to the progression of this project

1luvbigherb

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Surely dead by now, despite being in my fridge since 1986 or 87 (always waiting for that dream move to the tropics to be able to grow them properly) but I do have some f2s of Haze that Nevil gave me, a brother-sister mating from the original seedstock. Would these be of any use? Nev gave me them to guard against eventualities (I was living in Arnhem at the time) but he never came back for them. Anyways, you probably have all the Haze you need anyway and these seeds are likely gone the way of the dodo after the better part of 30 years in my fridge.

If they are dead and I presume they are, then they are no use to anyone besides me. Sure I can use a few, why not? I can't PM you the questions to fill until your post count is over 50, but they are here in this thread in post #118 If your post count gets over 50 I can PM you the postal address in Amsterdam.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6679710&postcount=118
Thanks for the offer.
What I really want is landraces, but Haze was mostly Columbian maybe we can show this?
-SamS

 

[harry74]

If they are dead and I presume they are, then they are no use to anyone besides me. Sure I can use a few, why not? I can't PM you the questions to fill until your post count is over 50, but they are here in this thread in post #118 If your post count gets over 50 I can PM you the postal address in Amsterdam.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6679710&postcount=118
Thanks for the offer.
What I really want is landraces, but Haze was mostly Columbian maybe we can show this?
-SamS

Mostly Thai Sam, mostly Thai

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Have you ever used any of the methods with Cannabis seeds? Results....? I am trying the dry heat now.
-SamS

DNA degrades at elevated temperature. Fortunately, most sequencing methods require that the DNA be broken into small fragments . I'd still go with the most gentle method (dry heat).

- Dry heat is easy to control and guarantees that you are at mild 100°C.
- Steam on the other hand is hard to control, a 1 seed layer or steam flow through the container is needed. Steam has a lot more energy than liquid water of the same temperature and hence does way more damage. You're likely going to overcook some seeds and break DNA into small fragments.
- AFAIK infra-red is the common method for inactivating seed (such as hemp seeds imported into the USA) but does often not suffice. The trick with infra-red is that it causes small cracks in the shell and degrades part of the outer aleurone layer whilst most of the inner seed stays unadulterated. Some of the seeds treated this way will still germinate if sowed immediately but will lose viability quickly. Although, it is possible to grow them in vitro because most of the embryo remains viable. Irradiating longer will heavily degrade the outer parts of the seeds due the low penetration capacity. They'll prolly look like roasted chestnuts .

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I brought most or all the O Haze seeds to the Netherlands, Nevil included. When you say Thai why is that?
I know that one of the Haze brothers used a few of my Thai and S Indian seeds with his Haze, but it was a minority. The other Haze Bro, grew my Thai and S Indian seeds but never used them to make Haze.
Why is it mostly Thai?
The Original Haze was three Columbian varieties, including Punto Rojos, and a magenta variety and a green variety. They were used to make the first O Haze. All Columbian.....
-SamS

Mostly Thai Sam, mostly Thai

 

[Illuminate]

^^^ Dude, you know this guy Sam, the skunk man? Well he is THE guy. In my country weed is still measured by the bar set by Sam. Grandma and eggs??

 

[ozza]

including Punto Rojos, and a magenta variety and a green variety.
-SamS

Did the green and magenta come up from the same seed?

 

[dannykarey]

Take a couple generations and we'll still be lost..........ummmm no, people have been doing this for awhile now and making great headway actually. I know of several programs in Canada that have been this for a number of years. Peeps are also trying to genetically modify it for diff characteristics as well......Really exciting stuff!!!

Danny

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

My more limited goal is to try and obtain all of the landraces in the world, drug, hemp or wild. I have figured there are maybe 20,000 worldwide? Anyway I sure can try! Others will use this foundational data to figure out all the modern drug poly-hybrids. As well as to create a Cannabis family tree that shows evolution, and relationships. I will do my best, with many peoples help...
As for no fossil records?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...944C50215B4A7D.f03t03?v=1&t=i3gi3nng&d47ebe31
also at:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...id=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21104798074811

http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha5208.html

Not fossils but interesting: http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/59/15/4171.full
-SamS

No way , no how, can one organization acquire all of the Cannabis DNA from around the world for sequencing . I believe it is way to diverse to ever be figured out in entirety. No fossil records but yet it has been around man kind since the beginning of recorded time . Hmmm something tells me this is going to take a lifetime to just begin to crack , maybe a few generations from now people will be able to look back and laugh as they too will still be lost without a true clue to her origin.

 

[xxPeacePipexx]

Oh I forgot to say : Best of luck Sam and may this journey be a peaceful one for you.

Paleobotany is interesting to say the least. I find it fascinating. But like most of us. I want to see cannabis's fossilized remains in stone, from the earliest of times. Real rock fossils verses the remains considered to be a type of fossil by paleobotany definition. These are not really that old when you look at the remains of other plants that have been fossilized in stone.

We do we lack any fossils indicating its true age and origin on earth or even elsewhere for that matter ? We have nothing beyond the records & notes you shared in depth and this leaves us still clueless in so many ways with nothing set in stone !

Peace and again good karma with this project

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I am not trying to argue at all, I posted the reference because it's title was "New fossil evidence for the past cultivation and processing of Hemp (Cannabis sativa L) in Eastern England", it is the author that called them fossils. You are welcome to contact him.
I am not a paleontologist and was not even sure 10,000 years was needed to be called a fossil. But you are right that I have looked for Cannabis remains in fossils for all my life, or in amber more then a few thousand years old. I do have Cannabis seeds from the 2400 year old seeds from the Scynthian Pazyryk graves found in a leather pouch, excavated by Sergei Ivanovich Rudenko in 1947-1949, and also several different 1000 year old seed batches found in the EU at the bottom of retting ponds, including some mentioned in the article listed above. These materials have not yet had their DNA sequenced, they will soon. We have access to many many others in collections to use for the DNA project. We are working on obtaining the recent Chinese seed finds and the ice maiden seed finds. All these will add to the known knowledge on Cannabis.
-SamS


As well as recent articles like this one recently posted by Chimera:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0110638

Surely I did not come to argue and I ll leave with this said

Cannabis and its history is so unclear despite years of debate within botanical circles), it is believed to have existed for around 34 million years but where are the fossils ?

Without fossils how can anyone say 34 million years? Based on what?

According to paleontologists a preserved specimen is called a "fossil" if it is older than some minimum age, most often the arbitrary date of 10,000 years . Lets see something this old and then you may be on to something new but in the meanwhile its all ready known as you shown with old links .

This may be true, but RCC & MPF did write the best overview on the subject of ancient Cannabis archeological finds, and the IHA published it.
http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha5208.html
-SamS

 

[xxPeacePipexx]

I felt inclined to state I'm not here to argue in a general statement is all due to the nature of this place and its fighters. I do believe we can all learn from another regardless of views or beliefs for that matter.

The references you linked are excellent and I again cant argue but you see my view now as I see yours.

We both know our history and co-evolution with Cannabis well. And all of this this might explain more in due time if we had not had our own true history hidden from us we would already know much more.

The speculation of 34 million years was an estimate based upon the seven shared parasites with Cannabis's "sister group" the Urticaceae- (nettle) family and the lack of any shared parasites with cannabis's "cousin" - Moraceae (mulberry/fig) family. This may be wrong but I could try to reference if you like as their was more to this of course.

The DNA sequencing project will be beneficial like the others. But I simply think we have so much to learn once we open that doorway as its not a dead end we found it type of journey .

Who knows , maybe one day this will reveal that all of our agriculture stems from Cannabis ! Imagine that or Perhaps it will reveal that the Phoenicians brought cannabis to the Americas.

Endless possibilities my friend and this is all I was suggesting when I stated we will never catch em all heheh ..

Have a good one Sam

I am not trying to argue at all, I posted the reference because it's title was "New fossil evidence for the past cultivation and processing of Hemp (Cannabis sativa L) in Eastern England", it is the author that called them fossils. You are welcome to contact him.
I am not a paleontologist and was not even sure 10,000 years was needed to be called a fossil. But you are right that I have looked for Cannabis remains in fossils for all my life, or in amber more then a few thousand years old. I do have Cannabis seeds from the 2400 year old seeds from the Scynthian Pazyryk graves found in a leather pouch, excavated by Sergei Ivanovich Rudenko in 1947-1949, and also several different 1000 year old seed batches found in the EU at the bottom of retting ponds, including some mentioned in the article listed above. These materials have not yet had their DNA sequenced, they will soon. We have access to many many others in collections to use for the DNA project. We are working on obtaining the recent Chinese seed finds and the ice maiden seed finds. All these will add to the known knowledge on Cannabis.
-SamS


As well as recent articles like this one recently posted by Chimera:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0110638



This may be true, but RCC & MPF did write the best overview on the subject of ancient Cannabis archeological finds, and the IHA published it.
http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/jiha5208.html
-SamS

 

[Illuminate]

History in the making it seems.

 

[MJtheIndicator]

I'm particularly interested in drug varieties coming out of Hainan and if there is a possible DNA mirror to Yunnan.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I'm particularly interested in drug varieties coming out of Hainan and if there is a possible DNA mirror to Yunnan.

I have lots of Yunnan accessions collected by Rob Clarke and I a bit.
We will test them.
-SamS

 

[Angus]

I can obtain wild hemp from nebraska if that's helpful. from my observations there are many expressions that are feral. shorter big flower producing plants 5 ft. tall to 12 foot wispy plants. resin production is minimal.
i'm not sure how cannabis got started here but the wild i'm assuming hemp variety grows abundant in the ditches

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I can obtain wild hemp from nebraska if that's helpful. from my observations there are many expressions that are feral. shorter big flower producing plants 5 ft. tall to 12 foot wispy plants. resin production is minimal.
i'm not sure how cannabis got started here but the wild i'm assuming hemp variety grows abundant in the ditches

Sounds interesting. Do you have the seed? Get it!
-SamS

 

[harry74]

Mr Nice has some Papua Nueva Guinea land races, gathered by Scotty himself.


Pd: This post will disappear in 2:00 min.

 

[Skinny Leaf]

Initial methods used to sequence the cannabis genome in 2011 have been replaced with more recent methods. In 2011, 3-5ug (micrograms or millionths of a gram) of DNA were required to sequence a genome. In 2012, methods have been optimized to enable genome sequencing with <10ng (nanograms or billionths of a gram) of DNA. This represents a 1000 fold reduction in the amount of DNA required to sequence a cannabis genome. As a result its likely

2011 Methods cost $200 to make a library and utilized Acoustic Bombardment to fragment the DNA from chromosomes into 500bp fragments ready for sequencing. DNA is fragmented, then end repaired with exonucleases and polymerases. Finally, Primers are ligated to the DNA fragments so they can be PCR amplified and sequenced.

2012 Methods now cost $50 to make a library. DNA shearing, End Repair and ligation have all been replaced with a Nextera transposon method from Epicentre. This 10min protocol is picogram sensitive and can be performed for less than $10 with optimization. DNA purification from cannabis seeds has been described to provide 150ng to 500ng per seed.

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/library-construction-qc/