cannabis culture cup approach

[left hemi]

I just read an article over at cannabis culture about a contest they did, where all the weed to be judged was grown by a single grower. this obviously eliminates a lot of variables in the product to be judged, and introduces the possibility of judging categories not possible in the more "open" approach used by other competitions (for example: yield) I recognize this would not be simple to implement. to find a grower with the capacity to handle such a task, who is also trusted by everyone involved. I'm not saying it's a be-all and end all or that the "open" approach is worthless, but there is always room for a discussion of ideas and different approaches (except, perhaps, in the middle east)

 

[Guest]

left hemi, the idea behind the Grower's category of the Cup is that what's being judged is not the strain (hence multiple entries of a single strain from different growers allowed), but rather the growers themselves. The Breeders' categories are the categories in which its the strain that wins.

Also, the Breeders and Growers categories are divided into Sativa entries and Indica entries, and each sample is judged according to a series of parameters which are the same for both categories.

There is also a category for hash.

Just a bit of information useful for anybody who like yourself who wants to offer input for the Cup. :smile:

 

[Dr. D]

i second that Blue, the growers cup is down to there skills with that particular strain...i think thats fairer than one person growing out all strains...

 

[left hemi]

I understand the difference, but I buy strains, not the products of growers, and that is prolly true of most of us here. one thing that matters even to us med users is yield, and I spent more than a little time trying to figure out how to integrate that into a contest. just as there are categories for sativa, indica, and hash, why not have a "uniformly grown" category? please note I was not and am not trying to dis dg and gn's efforts in any way. I was raised to keep an open mind. shit, I even tried to listen to my dimwitted president with an open mind the other night

left hemi, the idea behind the Grower's category of the Cup is that what's being judged is not the strain (hence multiple entries of a single strain from different growers allowed), but rather the growers themselves. The Breeders' categories are the categories in which its the strain that wins.

Also, the Breeders and Growers categories are divided into Sativa entries and Indica entries, and each sample is judged according to a series of parameters which are the same for both categories.

There is also a category for hash.

Just a bit of information useful for anybody who like yourself who wants to offer input for the Cup. :smile:

 

[Guest]

hemi i think u have some valid points but a big part of this particular cup is getting all the individuals to throw down with each other...there is something to be said for being rigorous to ensure uniformity but i think it would change the nature of the competition. in the case of the breeders, though, i think if they are going to bother to send their own stuff in then it will be as good as their strain can produce. like i'm sure soma and BOG and the others aren't going to send something unless its right on, and then if u like it u can get it from them knowing what ur getting. keep it green and stay safe...

 

[mosca negra]

Wow, Thanks BV! In entering the IC Grower's Cup-- Indica, I was trying to nuture the beautiful stain its fullest! Along the entire growth process. The beautiful strain, known as Motavation, was given to me by one of my closest Brothers-- Gerrit from Magus Genetics. This is what I see so many people do here on IC. Grow with a passion that comes from within. Bv, I know you can relate-- I have read your posts. You are one of these people. Heck, I have learned so much from reading IC Mag blogs on a regular basis here... We can all share it each other's glory. Let all keep it real and enjoy our Passion...

Proost! MN

 

[Guest]

Mosca Negra, my congratulations to you for your Cup win. I don't remember having met you there, but all of the winners in each category had exceptional entries, and big props go out to all Magus Genetics produces few strains, all of them excellent, and I'm sure they'll have much success with this new Indica.

hemi, absolutely your entitled to give your input, others have also made suggestions and given ideas. I just wanted to shed some light as to how the IC Cup works...its hard to give constructive input without a grip on how the event is already structured :smile:. You might have known that already, but others who come by this thread may not and now at least they have some background info which makes for intelligent input :wink:

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Probably there is room for many types of contest and comparisons. As a breeder I prefer seeing growers getting some credit for their skills. The Breeders might worry that one person growing the weed could be corrupted. To me having different growers do it is best and of course Breeders want to show their best done right.

If this growing operation was done openly which is tough to do it would be a very fair way to compare. BOG

 

[newbgrow]

IMHO strains should be judged by the people attending these competitions because in the end its these people that will purchase the strains. The breeders should give a load of seeds to certain verified growers running these competitions, there should be at least half a dozen to be fair. These growers grow out the seeds and rate them on yield, and other growing aspects, and the finished product is given out during the competition to experienced smokers who register with the competition, then averaged, and awarded accordingly. This way the results aren't controlled by a small group of appointed peoples, or even just one guy. It's the opinion of the actual potential customers that count.

Just my 420 cents.

 

[Guest]

from what ive read the competetive element sounds like a load of nonsense anyway.i hope to attend next year,meet other growers,learn lots, buy some quality seeds and enjoy the many wonderful social aspects that have been detailed here.i for one couldnt care less about the competition.

 

[Guest]

IMHO strains should be judged by the people attending these competitions because in the end its these people that will purchase the strains. The breeders should give a load of seeds to certain verified growers running these competitions, there should be at least half a dozen to be fair. These growers grow out the seeds and rate them on yield, and other growing aspects, and the finished product is given out during the competition to experienced smokers who register with the competition, then averaged, and awarded accordingly. This way the results aren't controlled by a small group of appointed peoples, or even just one guy. It's the opinion of the actual potential customers that count.

Just my 420 cents.

I see a major flaw in that plan.

Say Bog gave some beanz to ...oh, lets just pick BlueVelvet and Spankin' Elvis. They are both skilled growers and masters of the herb, IMHO. Anyway, yeah, they grow out some Bogglegum ot whatever, and yeah it's great. Problem is, when it gets to the average consumer, maybe there gardening skillz ain't quite up to snuff with BlueVelvet and Spankin'Elvis. So they grow it out, can't duplicate what a master gardener can get, and think it suks rocks. See that's the whole idea behind having a breeders competition and a growers competition. Breeders get to strut their stuff and show off, and the independent growers ( us normal folks) can enter our best efforts to see if it measures up.

And from my understanding, it is not a small group of appointees who judge, anyone can buy an expert judges pass and judge who has the best herb, so the actual potential customer can and does decide. Anyone with actual 420 cup experience please correct me if I'm wrong there.

 

[newbgrow]

I dont know exactly how icmag's cup or the htcc works. But the point is imo to discover the potential of a strain or beans, that is why you have voted 'expert' growers grow them, and for a 3rd party opinion instead of just self-proclaimed by the breeder. While the average person cant emulate professional results, he/she will know that the beans have the potential to reach that.

On the smoke judging thing, you may be right, like I said I have no idea how it currently works. It is also arguable on is it cool if breeders submit an elite pheno of a strain that their seeds don't necessarily represent. (If, for example, someone submits a sour diesel clone, or an elite 1 out of 100 jack herer pheno) Having the breeders grow, then submit a bag of buds to the judges themselves would allow this...

Perhaps you could have all the grower entrants grow the beans and have a general vote on the best strain and best grower, I dont knwo.

 

[The Conundrum]

A very small percentage of people go to these things (Cups and such). Who can afford to go to Europe everytime they want to try a new strain? A "Growers Cup" should be a competition of skills and IMHO must use the same strains as others entered (yeah I'm saying everyone entered in a growing oriented competition should be handed the same Female clones as everyone else in that competition). One strain against others will muddle the results and could mask skills or give a false impression of having them. Think of the IROC race. The drivers use the same vehicle. It is their skills that win the race not a superior car. A "Breeders Cup" should be the best of the best type thing and should include many strains from many Breeders.

 

[Guest]

And from my understanding, it is not a small group of appointees who judge, anyone can buy an expert judges pass and judge who has the best herb

This is correct Stank! Judges' passes are limited in number but anybody is entitled to purchase them, first come first serve.

But the point is imo to discover the potential of a strain or beans

Breeders who submit in that cateogry already know the potential of their strain, and are so convinced of its worth that they submit it as entry to an International Cannabis Competition :wink: What they could discover is how well it goes over with the potential buyers, especially if its a new release or a strain which is programmed for release.
In the Growers' category, as I previously stated, its not the strain that gets judged but the growers skills in cultivating the plant, drying, trimming and curing. The weed itself of course has to catch the Judges' attention if the idea is to place or win, but evaluation is not of the strain, rather of how much and how well the grower got full potential out of the genetics at his disposal. Having been a judge I can tell you that in this category poorly flushed weed, weed so dry that it crumbles coming out of the baggie , badly trimmed weed or harsh poorly cured weed are all things which will affect the vote on that particular entry big time! I saw the most mouth watering looking Growers entries, with the most tempting bouquets, just to light it up and find out it was chock full of chemicals and burning black. Scores plummeted. There were quite a few entries which were poorly cured and flushed, and IMO growers need to give more importance to these aspects of their growing whether for a Cup entry or for their own personal use.

 

[resinryder]

Absolutly xxBluevelvetxx. Does not matter how beautiful it is, if it isn't flushed and cured properly you haven't performed your job to the level it needs to be. To me taste, apperance, smokabilitly ranks just as high as all other aspects from start to finish.

 

[newbgrow]

I dont want to argue about this so i'll give it one last shot.

Breeders who submit in that cateogry already know the potential of their strain,

Right, and what I'm saying is that people BESIDES the breeder should know the potential of strains, so breeders would send xxx amount of beans to other professional growers, and they would grow out and send the best of the buds to the competition. A 3rd party verification, so to speak, of whether or not the results are justified by the beans.

EXAMPLE: Breeder X who advertises his (elite clone) x NL#5 strain, but sends in bud samples from his elite clone.
EXAMPLE#2: Breeder Z has a strain with a 1 in a 1000 rare pheno, where an average person would have to grow out 100 packs to find it. He sends in buds from that rare pheno.

Having 3rd party testers would prevent this, and as you said

they could discover is how well it goes over with the potential buyers

because now we know the product as actually represented in the competition.

As far as the grower's competition, Yes I agree with you. I was simply adding on the fact that the breeder's seeds could be tested from germination with the professional growers in the grower's section. Every grower would grow, say, 15 seeds, from 5 different breeder's entrants.

Or you could, I supposed, just have designated growers grow out breeder's seeds and make it completely separate from the growers in the growing category, it doesn't matter.

The Growers Category would judge how well the growers grow the strains.
The Breeders Category would judge how well the breeder's strains go, which are grown by third party growers.

And that is that.

 

[Dutchgrown]

Anyone ever been to a county fair? Ever see stalls and stalls of Angus cattle, or pigs, chickens...some get a blue ribbon...some get no ribbon at all. But all have been grown/raised by various farmers under varying conditions (maybe some were grown in a barn, while others in a pasture). The IC Grower's & Breeder's Cup is very much like the county fair in that growers from across the globe can enter what they've grown...so that it will be judged by 'other' growers and smokers (judges) and hopefully receive a ribbon (CUP).

Breeders do the exact same thing, except this gives them an avenue to get an assessment by 'other' growers and smokers (JUDGES)...maybe it is a variety available in seed form...maybe it is a variety they are 'working on' and haven't released seeds to....or maybe it's from an elite clone...maybe..maybe..maybe....bottom line is, IS IT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN?? Only the expert judges make that determination.

What is an expert judge? It is someone who is so committed to evaluating the entries that they purchase a judge's pass which entitles them to a sample of each entry (samples which total MORE weight than if they had spent the same amount and went to coffeeshops and purchased locally grown dutch weed.) Why should there be a cost to judge....cause it separates serious judges...those who take the task of judging a step more critical than those who are just handed a free bag of 30-40 samples.

:friends:
dg

 

[Guest]

Dutch, I couldn't have said it better and I'm glad to see I wasn't off base in my statements, I guess you and I think along the same lines :smile:

 

[Dutchgrown]

yes xxblue...we are on the same page But you have an advantage by being there this year and seeing how everything was done and why it was done certain ways. You were a great judge and took it seriously...just like the rest of the judges....it's all about recognizing the grower for having grown something THEY consider 'killer' (and seeing what others think of it) and the breeder's entering what they think is their best...(and finding out how it rates among seasoned/experienced growers/smokers). It's all about the quality of the sample (in every aspect) coupled with the effect when judged.

See you all next year in the dam. Gonna be a hell of a party...again!

:friends:
dg

 

[Guest]

so true Dutch, I think to actually get a grip on the whys and wherefores of the Cup organization the opportunity to actually be there and experience first-hand is important. I took my judging duties very seriously So seriously in fact that at 3 months distance my tollerance is still 3 times what it was before I went LMAO

Can't wait for the next one!