Cannabis and Silver Thiosulfate Solution: What Growers First Brought Us the Info?

[Douglas.Curtis]

I've personally researched using STS, and have also used it successfully. Most of what I read was simply re-posted without credit. I would like to give credit where it is due, so I'm looking for historical information.


What growers first brought working STS methods to the cannabis community? Does anyone have names and dates, along with the methods being pushed?


Thank You!




This is an Early Dane I used STS on.
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[The_Skunkist]

Source:

https://www.alchimiaweb.com/en/moham-ram-product-1429.php

According to Sweet Seeds, this strain was created to honour the botanist HY Mohan Ram, and especially for his article "Induction of Fertile Male Flowers in Genetically Female Cannabis sativa Plants by Silver Nitrate and Silver Thiosulphate Anionic complex Theor. Appl. Genet. 62, 369-375 (1982) ", in which he explains how to feminise a cannabis sativa plant using silver nitrate and an anionic silver thiosulfate complex. This method, known as STS, is based on reversing the sex of female plants, what allows us to obtain feminised seeds. For this reason, Sweet Seeds expresses its deepest gratitude to Mohan Ram.

Hope it helps , just my 2 cents.

 

[HookahsGarden]

The latest podcast of therealdirt talks about this issue with one of todays preeminent feminized breeders. Nspecta of CSI Humboldt. I think you'll find the topic interesting because he discusses who brought some of the first feminized techniques to the community on the forums.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Awesome contributions! Thanks to you both.


I went looking for this info and started with a search on google. Marijuana Silver Thiosulfate Solution
The top result is my steemit article on the subject. lol Given time restraints and the poor results my search choices were generating, I figured a thread on here would be significantly more productive. I'm off to listen to the podcast, thanks.

 

[JetLife175]

The first person I really saw pushing it in the community was Matt Riot. Say what you want about the guy but he knows his shit.

He was the first I ever saw talk about it and put out a basic recipe for it.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The first person I really saw pushing it in the community was Matt Riot. Say what you want about the guy but he knows his shit.

He was the first I ever saw talk about it and put out a basic recipe for it.

Do you remember when this was? From the podcast, Hibe and Countrymon on CW were talking about it back in 2002. I wasn't looking for this kind of information back then, so I guess I completely missed it. heh

 

[MJPassion]

The first person I really saw pushing it in the community was Matt Riot. Say what you want about the guy but he knows his shit.

He was the first I ever saw talk about it and put out a basic recipe for it.

Do you remember when this was? From the podcast, Hibe and Countrymon on CW were talking about it back in 2002. I wasn't looking for this kind of information back then, so I guess I completely missed it. heh

I do recall discussing this w Matt and quite a few others around '06 on the Skunk Magazine Forums... Not sure where else Matt hung out. Maybe RIU?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Interesting, since CW and OG went down in 2006? Whatever he was posting would have stayed around as one of the only sources.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Apparently Matt Riot still sells a reversal spray. Billed as "not using regular silver nitrate," and is sprayed every day. I'm guessing it contains gib?


I'll keep looking.

 

[Chrondiddle O]

I'm 99.9% sure the first feminised seeds I ever heard of were dutch passion

 

[dezman]

I'm 99.9% sure the first feminised seeds I ever heard of were dutch passion

yes dutch passion and no mercy supply were the pioneers. can't remember which was first. probably dp

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Found a post by Country Mon from CW, and it's the same recipe I've been using. LOL

Originally posted by Country Mon:

First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.


The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.

After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.

So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.

A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.

Effects:

Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.

It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.

When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.

When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.

A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.

Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidently. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.

This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.

If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle.

Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.

Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.

 

[CosmicGiggle]

As a matter of fact, the first online cannabis forum poster informing folks about STS was hybe, on original Cannabisworld.

...... he got in trouble when he started selling the stuff for $100 a bottle when it cost just a lil bit $ to make up the solution and mail it out!

 

[CosmicGiggle]

OK, so the old original Cannabisworld can be found online at Cannabisworld .com.

Here's a link to a poster testing hybe's eliteXelite (STS) from Feb. 2003
https:// cannabisworld.com/index.php?topic=3515.msg313579#msg313579

Hybe was an academic and serious grower/breeder in PNW who went by several different nics online, hib, hibe, eliteXelite, hybe, etc.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Dutch Passion was the first to sell all fem seeds made with STS, at first he made them from Rodelized plants that were slightly intersex anyway, I think it was called Oasis?, Hybe was one of the first selling STS for $100 a liter, but we were the first to use STS, we used it shortly after reading about it in Ram's paper, I and Rob Clarke read Rams paper in 1983 and made and used it a few years later. We were the first to use S1-S4 selfed individuals for breeding single Cannabinoid varieties, to commercialize STS seed and breeding production, but not to sell all female seeds.
At the time I was hoping to combine all female seeds with all sterile plants that could not set any seeds.
We were also amongst the first to turn males to females with ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid). So the male that was female transformed could be tested for Cannabinoid and terpene contents, it worked great to help get an idea what Cannabinoids and Terpenes the male could pass on to progeny.
With all female sterile seeds, then anyone could grow sinsemilla, no need to sex plants, and even if your neighbor had a zillion flowering males you would get no seeds in your sterile all female crop. Perfect for Morocco hash farmers that never see sinsemilla grown in the Rif, just to many male plants.
Anyway, all female is easy, making your all female seeds also sterile I never succeeded with although I tried for 3 years using a method that watermelon seed producers use to make seedless watermelon's. It almost worked but still made white nubbies and a few to a lot of black seeds no matter how I tried or what genetics I used. I only used Diplod males several different ones, maybe Tri or Tetraploids would work? But I wanted a all female sterile plant that would not set seed from Diploid males, like in the real world.
-SamS

 

[frostqueen]

yes dutch passion and no mercy supply were the pioneers. can't remember which was first. probably dp

They used rodelization, NOT STS. There's a big difference.

 

[frostqueen]

Do you remember when this was? From the podcast, Hibe and Countrymon on CW were talking about it back in 2002. I wasn't looking for this kind of information back then, so I guess I completely missed it. heh

This. Countrymon took the study referenced above and developed the technique over a year or so in 2002, using various concentrations on many different cultivars to arrive at the final ratios. Hybe also worked to narrow down the final concentration.

Chimera definitely remembers this. He and somebody called eXe endlessly badgered them about the 'dangers of using silver nitrate' and the irresponsibility of posting such a technique. Remember that, Chimera?

This was because at the time eXe was selling a little bottle of STS (or something like it) for like 100 dollars a pop, and medical patients with plant number limitations couldn't afford that. In light of that Countrymon wrote up a detailed guide and set it loose on the internet as public domain information.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2438344#post2438344

 

[beanz]

I have 22 females atm reversed of all kinds , they had two sprays ....just about to dump pollen . only be using a few of them , was more an experiment .

thing I found interesting , last season I reversed sativa and hybrids on just one spray .I,m wondering has anyone even bothered just doing one spray ? is the 2nd really needed ?

my plants health was really good after the first spray so I did the second spray this time ....reluctantly, wish I would have left a few with just one spray too see results again

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Heya frostqueen, in post #31 from that link you just posted, hibe/eXe/hybe,etc. can be seen taking all the credit himself for getting the info out to the masses!

Here's his post:

"The truth is that eliteXelite, aka hyb, was the person who introduced a spray(eliteXelite hybridization tool) that changed the world of feminizing cannabis, in 2001. Before this, nobody on these boards knew about the profound effects of STS on cannabis.

Hyb/eXe made the discovery through his own cannabis experiments, without even knowing about the 1983 Mohan Ram/Sett article.

The Ram/Sett article was introduced to cannabis forums later, when VicHigh unearthed a copy of the 1983 research, after a fervent hunt for info on the unique NEW technology that hyb was describing. This inspired a worldwide race to experiment with STS(and later,colloidal silver) on Cannabis, which eventually confirmed its efficacy. After almost a decade, STS technology is still regarded as the best method for chemical induction of male flowers on female cannabis plants.

Countrymon and Fet (and now many others)just copy and pasted the 1983 article and the preparation of STS all over cannabis-friendly boards. They generally do not acknowledge hyb's/eXe's groundbreaking discovery and/or product introduction, as this would properly place their contribution as a mere cut and paste of someone else's work.

Now you have the real 'STS on Cannabis' story, from someone who REALLY knows how it happened...and who was really responsible for making it happen.

havagoodone. "

No matter what handle hybe postes under, he always ends with his signature "havagoodone"

 

[CosmicGiggle]

Chimera definitely remembers this.

True dat, Chimera would know!