Canna Coco PK required?
- Thread starter I°ON_Marx
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Ca++
Well-known member
Canna coco feed is quite low in K.
Signs of low K typically start with burnt tips. Often mistaken for nutrient burn from over feeding. After this, different plants might show in different ways. Some will show the burning along the leaf margins, while others will show stripes on lower leaves, that might be mistaken for Mg. Soon enough, you would see both, but which comes first isn't written in stone. By this point, you are getting into trouble, and should be thinking about 50ppm more K, at least.
Signs of low K typically start with burnt tips. Often mistaken for nutrient burn from over feeding. After this, different plants might show in different ways. Some will show the burning along the leaf margins, while others will show stripes on lower leaves, that might be mistaken for Mg. Soon enough, you would see both, but which comes first isn't written in stone. By this point, you are getting into trouble, and should be thinking about 50ppm more K, at least.
Canna nutes work real well together if u use the pk at the right time u will see the difference its not essential but I always use pk.i would also think of using canna boost as well.the boost from first sign of flowers and the pk once the flowers start to spiral round the stems(week 5 on a nine weeker)all strains are different tho so u must take into account flower time.76
Ca++
Well-known member
The P doesn't really need boosting, and doing so may cause problems. There is enough in the A&B, and it just lingers in coco. So you would need reasonable run-off, and never get to the point where they actually needed watering. Such a dry-back will push the P too high.
iirc the P is about 70ppm, and the K 180ppm. Which might be better at 250ppm. It seems LED lighting has increased the demand on K, or the water isn't getting to the extremities. The K is canna coco feed isn't double that of the Ca, which is often thought of as a minimum ratio. So water hardness may also factor in, where more Ca is making it hard for the K.
It's a bit to think about.
If you give us the spec of your K bottle, We can give you an idea of it's usefulness. It's nice to get the K available in advance, as the plant will store it. It's canna in particular that runs low K, from what I have seen. As it's the same food for grow and bloom, iirc.
iirc the P is about 70ppm, and the K 180ppm. Which might be better at 250ppm. It seems LED lighting has increased the demand on K, or the water isn't getting to the extremities. The K is canna coco feed isn't double that of the Ca, which is often thought of as a minimum ratio. So water hardness may also factor in, where more Ca is making it hard for the K.
It's a bit to think about.
If you give us the spec of your K bottle, We can give you an idea of it's usefulness. It's nice to get the K available in advance, as the plant will store it. It's canna in particular that runs low K, from what I have seen. As it's the same food for grow and bloom, iirc.
@Ca++ you are talking the talk so may I have your opinion on what I'm currently doing please? I have Mills Basis nutes which A and B add up to 3-4-4 (if I can do that?) and it recommends usage from start to finish. I'm using the hempy grow system with minimum runoff and have had some excellent results so far but I was wondering if that's good enough? It seems far to easy and I was wondering if there's room for improvement, cheers bud 
Ca++
Well-known member
There is always room for improvement
If you are just adding the labels together for that 3-4-4, then that's not quite right. If you put a 1 and a 3 together, you get 2 not 4. However, you do have twice as much of it, so it's 4 going in the tank.
I will say that one again. if you add 1ml of 10% and 1ml of 30% together, you have 2ml of 20%
If you have excellent results, you might be better leaving it alone
If you are just adding the labels together for that 3-4-4, then that's not quite right. If you put a 1 and a 3 together, you get 2 not 4. However, you do have twice as much of it, so it's 4 going in the tank.
I will say that one again. if you add 1ml of 10% and 1ml of 30% together, you have 2ml of 20%
If you have excellent results, you might be better leaving it alone
I°ON_Marx
New member
Thanks for the replies guys. I disappeared for a while, the aliens kidnapped me... sorry! 
So the pk of Canna coco, or any agent containing pk, will contain more phosphorus than I would need for my current Canna coco A+B+Canna coco Calmag mix. I only looked at nutrient solutions containing potassium, but they all contain additional nitrogen, phosphorus and other micronutrients. E.g. 40 g/l potassium and 12 g/l nitrogen. How harmful or beneficial is this amount of nitrogen to me during flowering? Also, if this nutrient solution is suitable, how many milliliters of potassium do you recommend for the Canna family?
So the pk of Canna coco, or any agent containing pk, will contain more phosphorus than I would need for my current Canna coco A+B+Canna coco Calmag mix. I only looked at nutrient solutions containing potassium, but they all contain additional nitrogen, phosphorus and other micronutrients. E.g. 40 g/l potassium and 12 g/l nitrogen. How harmful or beneficial is this amount of nitrogen to me during flowering? Also, if this nutrient solution is suitable, how many milliliters of potassium do you recommend for the Canna family?
Ca++
Well-known member
Potassium nitrate I'm guessing? I would have to look it up.
K puts pressure on N, and N is usually lacking in bloom feeds. I think it's reasonable in canna, but nothing like the 190ppm many studies point towards.
A bit of P won't hurt, and can aid pH stability. The canna recipe is time served, so certainly isn't terrible. Some studies have found some pot plants to grow bigger buds, with diluted potency with 90ppm P. The coco is about 62? though, and just gathers in the coco. I would rather avoid the old high P wisdom. 60 is plenty, especially in coco.
K puts pressure on N, and N is usually lacking in bloom feeds. I think it's reasonable in canna, but nothing like the 190ppm many studies point towards.
A bit of P won't hurt, and can aid pH stability. The canna recipe is time served, so certainly isn't terrible. Some studies have found some pot plants to grow bigger buds, with diluted potency with 90ppm P. The coco is about 62? though, and just gathers in the coco. I would rather avoid the old high P wisdom. 60 is plenty, especially in coco.
dramamine
Well-known member
Judicious use of Potassium Sulfate is a good way to add some K, if needed. You get a little sulfur along with it, but if I remember right, Canna is pretty low in sulfur, so that would be a good thing to bump up a bit too. Dry potassium sulfate is cheap and will go a long way.Thanks for the replies guys. I disappeared for a while, the aliens kidnapped me... sorry!
I°ON_Marx
New member
This is what is written on the bottle: 40 Potassium, 12 Nitrogen (g/L) I don't like to say the brand because it is country and region specific. Won't this amount of nitrogen cause elongation during flowering? Canna Coco A+B made them stretch a lot anyway. Then it might be more worthwhile to add phosphorus in addition to potassium, based on what you have described.
Ca++
Well-known member
Potassium nitrate lists 13% N and 45% K with some tolerance. Suggesting they dissolved near 100g in about 900ml. I'm not sure if it's that soluble, as I have never looked. There will be solubility tables around for it though. Oh, wait, found it. Sorry about that. 100g in a liter is no problem, even at freezing. By a nice 20c, you can get 300g in there.
They used to associate N with stretch, but in latter years P has taken the title. Low N will inhibit stretch, but only because it inhibits the plant. It knows from low N, that it needs to hurry, not spend time growing more. You get an all together smaller plant, with less aspirations in life
I think N gets a bad reception on forums. Studies show we need a good bit more than bottles tend to give. Canna about 130ppm? Some uni's run 200, and 165 is a low number when looking at groups of studies. That's quite a gap you can fill, without expecting negative consequences. In reality, you could expect a gain from it.
They used to associate N with stretch, but in latter years P has taken the title. Low N will inhibit stretch, but only because it inhibits the plant. It knows from low N, that it needs to hurry, not spend time growing more. You get an all together smaller plant, with less aspirations in life
I think N gets a bad reception on forums. Studies show we need a good bit more than bottles tend to give. Canna about 130ppm? Some uni's run 200, and 165 is a low number when looking at groups of studies. That's quite a gap you can fill, without expecting negative consequences. In reality, you could expect a gain from it.
I°ON_Marx
New member
I found a modest dosage guide. Do you think this suits me?Potassium nitrate lists 13% N and 45% K with some tolerance. Suggesting they dissolved near 100g in about 900ml. I'm not sure if it's that soluble, as I have never looked. There will be solubility tables around for it though. Oh, wait, found it. Sorry about that. 100g in a liter is no problem, even at freezing. By a nice 20c, you can get 300g in there.
They used to associate N with stretch, but in latter years P has taken the title. Low N will inhibit stretch, but only because it inhibits the plant. It knows from low N, that it needs to hurry, not spend time growing more. You get an all together smaller plant, with less aspirations in life
I think N gets a bad reception on forums. Studies show we need a good bit more than bottles tend to give. Canna about 130ppm? Some uni's run 200, and 165 is a low number when looking at groups of studies. That's quite a gap you can fill, without expecting negative consequences. In reality, you could expect a gain from it.
Dosage: 2-3 x 10-20 l/hectare. Concentration: 1-2 %
Ca++
Well-known member
If you are unsure how to do this, it might be better to stick with the canna program, and see if it works for you. Whenever I do a new build, I like to run with a standard feed regime. To see if it works, or what my plants want differently.
IIRC canna use quite a bit of PK, for a short duration. That has been the thing most people change. Giving about half as much, for longer. Or am I getting confused. It's so long since I followed their guide.
Guides in hectares are not usually the concentration we use. They tend to be surface dressings or foliar applications.
40g in 1000ml is about 4% K, so 1.2% N.
A ml of that per liter, would give you 40ppm K and 12ppm N.
That would increase the K of their combined grow&bloom food, in line with bloom foods of other brands. Though even then, it's on the low side for other brands, and your plain waters EC starts to play a part. You could easily need 2ml/L , and a touch of Mg, if your water is 0.4 or more.
IIRC canna use quite a bit of PK, for a short duration. That has been the thing most people change. Giving about half as much, for longer. Or am I getting confused. It's so long since I followed their guide.
Guides in hectares are not usually the concentration we use. They tend to be surface dressings or foliar applications.
40g in 1000ml is about 4% K, so 1.2% N.
A ml of that per liter, would give you 40ppm K and 12ppm N.
That would increase the K of their combined grow&bloom food, in line with bloom foods of other brands. Though even then, it's on the low side for other brands, and your plain waters EC starts to play a part. You could easily need 2ml/L , and a touch of Mg, if your water is 0.4 or more.
