A thought: If I installed a resistor, or bought a power supply that was overload protected, wouldn't I be safe from the chance of the inverters melting? Or is that an incorrect assumption.
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Can you grow with cold cathode computer lighting?
- Thread starter ScrubNinja
- Start date
apples
Active member
Man, all this eletrical bs is bummin me out.
I went to the PC repair shop near my house, and I trust the guy, I go there often. He told me to run them all safely I would need a larger power supply.
I'm just gonna run the 12 bulbs (6 inverters) for now. I need to focus on other aspects of this box rather than trying to start a fire with 20 bulbs.
I went to the PC repair shop near my house, and I trust the guy, I go there often. He told me to run them all safely I would need a larger power supply.
I'm just gonna run the 12 bulbs (6 inverters) for now. I need to focus on other aspects of this box rather than trying to start a fire with 20 bulbs.
ST8DunWSociety
Member
Lol hey guys i didn't mean to drop a bomb out on you, but let me see if can give you a hand again. With all your inverters it's important to remember that with hooking them up it's more important to know whats going on with the inverter than the bulb (the inverter is giving that bulb exactally what it needs so it's going to have a voltage regulator of sorts). Now the bad part is they don't have resistance or the total amp drawl one inverter can pull. But there is light at the end of the tunnel there scrubs. What you need to do is get yours self a DMM (Digital multi meter) or hopefully you have one that can give you amps. On your base power supply hook up one inverter and one bulb... BUT! your going to have to put your DMM leads in series with that circuit (remember me spouting on about that?) That will tell you how much amps one inverter is drawling. From there, once the amps were found, you can then take that and calculate your resistance, V=AxR, and then you can finally calculate the way to squeeze your 12 inverters to your circuit, The good thing is you know your circuit is going to be 12V, from there everything else can be test for number. Remember to also get your amps upon start-up and finally once warmed up and stabilized, the first couple seconds of start up you will have a load spike from your inverters demanding power to crank up those CCFLs.For you issues with the lights being on / off and the fans me on always. You can run two sets of wires off your PSU, one for the fans, one for the lights with a timer on your lights. They do have small digital or analog timer for this purpose. If you can't find one you can just make one with a regular wall one and a relay,With just looking at how many cathodes you have and inverters, your probably going to need a pretty big power supply. When you look at the case of a computer power supply you notice it was say 12v 28 max amps, or something along those lines. So unless each one of those inverters is only pulling 1a a piece, your total amps in the circuit would be 12 if they were all wired in series, which could cause some ill willed effects, but figure out what your amp drawl per inverter is first. The fan controller, sounds kind of like a resister, i'm guessing though, more specs / pictures if you don't have it aready would be handy (i'm too lazy to look right now, just got off work and my feet are cold).
On and on we go, Thermal protecters can be an assest, but if you have internal circuit protection on your PSU, i wouldn't worry about it (the way that works anyway is when you do have too much of a drawl, or a short, which is nothing more than an epic drawl, it sees that and acts the same way as a protected wall outlet, you can, once you figure out what your amps are and how much juice you need, can but a small 12v circuit breaker that is rated just a couple amps more then what you need on starting demands).
Ok did i miss somethign? anyway StealthDragon! - Sorry if you explantion was a little of a mystery for you. So you have two fans that are rated 12v at .2amps or 200mh, and you want to stick it on a 5v PS (getting tired of saying PSU, so PS stands for power supply) So we're going to work some number backwords to figure out the resistance! so R=V/A, R=12/.2 Resistance is 60ohms per fan. Now that you know your resistance, your going to change your Voltage, let see how this will effect your total amps in your circuit with just one fan. A=V/R, A=5/60 or A = .083, hmm not much going on right? lol, So lets take your two fans and wire them in parallel to get the most bang for your buck, R1xR2/R1+R2, 60x60/60+60, 3600/120 = 30 ohms, So back to the Ohms law V=AxR, A=V/R or A=5/30 or A=.16 total circuit amprage, which is still below the 2 amp max on your PS. So get-her-dun. WHAT THIS MEANS! Your fans are going to me spinnin slower then they would at 12V keep that in the back of your noodle. To prove this we're going to change 5 volts to 12 volts and see how much amp draw your fans will have. SO A=12/30 or total circuit amps = .4 This why when you change the volts on motors you change the speed.
Oh and back to your resister question scrubs, if you add a resister to the circuit, your changing the total resistance of the circuit, it' doesn't do anything for circuit protection, Why it works on the computer power supply is that when you do have short that 10 ohm 10 watt resister goes "MEZ HUNGRY Nom nom nom nom" Now to clearify some mis-stated facts. Most computer power supplies does have a built in circuit protection. It's called a GFI (actually it's called something else, but i'm not going there right now) what it does is sences an abnormal spike in energy and then goes into thermal protection mode and cuts all power to the PS untill it cools off. The resister helps take so much demand off the GFI. But the GFI still functions the same way it would (you have to turn off / unplug the computer power supply untill everything is kosher again.) I wouldn't be really conserned about something fucking up and destroying your pad as long as your not trying to hotwire all that shit straight to the wall outlet. Power supplies are ment to fail safe, and if you need an extra bit of reasurance, like stated above use a circuit breaker, or if your really cheap, almost any time of fast blow auto fuses will work too!
Ok i'm done, i need to get going.
On and on we go, Thermal protecters can be an assest, but if you have internal circuit protection on your PSU, i wouldn't worry about it (the way that works anyway is when you do have too much of a drawl, or a short, which is nothing more than an epic drawl, it sees that and acts the same way as a protected wall outlet, you can, once you figure out what your amps are and how much juice you need, can but a small 12v circuit breaker that is rated just a couple amps more then what you need on starting demands).
Ok did i miss somethign? anyway StealthDragon! - Sorry if you explantion was a little of a mystery for you. So you have two fans that are rated 12v at .2amps or 200mh, and you want to stick it on a 5v PS (getting tired of saying PSU, so PS stands for power supply) So we're going to work some number backwords to figure out the resistance! so R=V/A, R=12/.2 Resistance is 60ohms per fan. Now that you know your resistance, your going to change your Voltage, let see how this will effect your total amps in your circuit with just one fan. A=V/R, A=5/60 or A = .083, hmm not much going on right? lol, So lets take your two fans and wire them in parallel to get the most bang for your buck, R1xR2/R1+R2, 60x60/60+60, 3600/120 = 30 ohms, So back to the Ohms law V=AxR, A=V/R or A=5/30 or A=.16 total circuit amprage, which is still below the 2 amp max on your PS. So get-her-dun. WHAT THIS MEANS! Your fans are going to me spinnin slower then they would at 12V keep that in the back of your noodle. To prove this we're going to change 5 volts to 12 volts and see how much amp draw your fans will have. SO A=12/30 or total circuit amps = .4 This why when you change the volts on motors you change the speed.
Oh and back to your resister question scrubs, if you add a resister to the circuit, your changing the total resistance of the circuit, it' doesn't do anything for circuit protection, Why it works on the computer power supply is that when you do have short that 10 ohm 10 watt resister goes "MEZ HUNGRY Nom nom nom nom" Now to clearify some mis-stated facts. Most computer power supplies does have a built in circuit protection. It's called a GFI (actually it's called something else, but i'm not going there right now) what it does is sences an abnormal spike in energy and then goes into thermal protection mode and cuts all power to the PS untill it cools off. The resister helps take so much demand off the GFI. But the GFI still functions the same way it would (you have to turn off / unplug the computer power supply untill everything is kosher again.) I wouldn't be really conserned about something fucking up and destroying your pad as long as your not trying to hotwire all that shit straight to the wall outlet. Power supplies are ment to fail safe, and if you need an extra bit of reasurance, like stated above use a circuit breaker, or if your really cheap, almost any time of fast blow auto fuses will work too!
Ok i'm done, i need to get going.
Cool bro cool. Well I guess you have answered everything as well as can be. I think the problem now is me. I need to go through that slowly and do it one step at a time, but it seems so overwhelming when read in a block. I think I have adhd or whatever. I've never been diagnosed but it's becoming apparent. 
:
So.... I think the best way for me to proceed would be to take some lights and inverters to my brother. He has a clamp meter, and I can show him this thread and your excellent breakdown, just so there is no crossed wires (get it, get it??) or info mismatch.
Thanks st8, for real. It probably seems like you haven't helped my particular circumstance, since I am running off crying to my bro, but you have helped, immensely. I just wish I didn't smoke so much weed.
I do have a digi multimeter (not sure if it's one like you mention) but I've never used it, so that will be another weeks reading to understand - I don't expect you to explain all that, it's not your duty. So it just seems no matter which route I go, it turns into reams and reams of the exact opposite of building this thing. So hopefully with my bro, your posts, and a clampmeter, in the same room at the same time, I can advance.
Thanks buddy and btw I do remember your old account - I think we even talked about converting PSUs. Anyways, cheers bro.
Oh woops, I will also take my PSUs to my bro. Yes, I do have an unknown PSU in that spare computer, it's probably better. I don't know how good it is but in testing I just ran the whole computer, and hooked everything up and couldn't detect any obvious signs of overload.
:So.... I think the best way for me to proceed would be to take some lights and inverters to my brother. He has a clamp meter, and I can show him this thread and your excellent breakdown, just so there is no crossed wires (get it, get it??) or info mismatch.
Thanks st8, for real. It probably seems like you haven't helped my particular circumstance, since I am running off crying to my bro, but you have helped, immensely. I just wish I didn't smoke so much weed.
I do have a digi multimeter (not sure if it's one like you mention) but I've never used it, so that will be another weeks reading to understand - I don't expect you to explain all that, it's not your duty. So it just seems no matter which route I go, it turns into reams and reams of the exact opposite of building this thing. So hopefully with my bro, your posts, and a clampmeter, in the same room at the same time, I can advance.
Thanks buddy and btw I do remember your old account - I think we even talked about converting PSUs. Anyways, cheers bro.
Oh woops, I will also take my PSUs to my bro. Yes, I do have an unknown PSU in that spare computer, it's probably better. I don't know how good it is but in testing I just ran the whole computer, and hooked everything up and couldn't detect any obvious signs of overload.
apples
Active member
I'm one of those people who really hates tedious tasks like trying to peel a sticker off its backing or tape for that matter.
RAWR!!!!
Sorry bad cellphone pics.
Weather stripping around the door for a nice seal. Also culked all seams b4 going around with reflective tape.
The fan I was gonna use decided to die today so I ordered some nice silverstones 1 for the cab 1 for my actualy PC. Just need to get another timer and surge protector. Oh, and a latch to keep the door shut.
RAWR!!!!
Sorry bad cellphone pics.
Weather stripping around the door for a nice seal. Also culked all seams b4 going around with reflective tape.
The fan I was gonna use decided to die today so I ordered some nice silverstones 1 for the cab 1 for my actualy PC. Just need to get another timer and surge protector. Oh, and a latch to keep the door shut.
ST8DunWSociety
Member
Hey another bit of warning with induction probes, aka Das Clamp, with the amount of current you have going on it won't be enough to get a real accurate reading..... i'm sorry i keep destroying your dreams. But look as you can tell i don't mind explaining, as a fact of the mater just someone enjoying / kind of half understanding what i'm saying is a real pleasure. The last time i tried going over this, i kind of got the dear stuck in the headlight type responce, then following "my computer fans are working so i'm doing it right"
But hey, i'm going to take it a little bit farther for you. If your meter has an Amp mode, or a big as A on it you need to set up a circuit let this
This will tell you how many amps your inverter is drawling and you only need to know it for one inverter, trust me if i had one at hand i would do it for you. Figure this out, post the shit and tell me how many total lights / inverters you have (i'm guessing 12)
Look i don't get many reason to even explain my interest in electricity or circuits, i love it and i'm going to go back to school for electrical engineering so i can go on learning the REALLY deep shit. This is the basics we are touching on. If you really want to put your brain in a bunch open one of them inverters up and look was going on. Now thats the shit i'm into. I don't mind helping and i really want to see how well this will work out for you, i'm always more interested in the things that aren't normal and thing people tell you you can't do Thus why i'm St8DunWSociety!
But hey, i'm going to take it a little bit farther for you. If your meter has an Amp mode, or a big as A on it you need to set up a circuit let this
This will tell you how many amps your inverter is drawling and you only need to know it for one inverter, trust me if i had one at hand i would do it for you
. Figure this out, post the shit and tell me how many total lights / inverters you have (i'm guessing 12)Look i don't get many reason to even explain my interest in electricity or circuits, i love it and i'm going to go back to school for electrical engineering so i can go on learning the REALLY deep shit. This is the basics we are touching on. If you really want to put your brain in a bunch open one of them inverters up and look was going on. Now thats the shit i'm into. I don't mind helping and i really want to see how well this will work out for you, i'm always more interested in the things that aren't normal and thing people tell you you can't do Thus why i'm St8DunWSociety!
hehe ok cool. I see that diagram, yup I can do that easy. I checked my multimeter, yup it has A's. I like where this is heading
Just not sure which one to switch it to? Thanks brah. There is a lot to be said for the good feelings brought about by helping people too. As well as getting to laugh at our general incompetance! (edit) Also I note that there's no inverter on your diagram, so I assume I attach the probes between the PSU and the inverter. (edit) that was a dumb question, of course I do.
Also, is there a correct orientation (pos/neg) to connect the MM's probes into the circuit, or either way is good?
Looking great Apples! Hang in there, one day we will have plants in these fuckers. I sure hope they grow after all this.
Just not sure which one to switch it to? Thanks brah. There is a lot to be said for the good feelings brought about by helping people too. As well as getting to laugh at our general incompetance! (edit) Also I note that there's no inverter on your diagram, so I assume I attach the probes between the PSU and the inverter. (edit) that was a dumb question, of course I do.
Also, is there a correct orientation (pos/neg) to connect the MM's probes into the circuit, or either way is good?
Looking great Apples! Hang in there, one day we will have plants in these fuckers. I sure hope they grow after all this.
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ok, small update,not much to see. but I'm making progress! almost there.
before foiltape
after foiltape
look! look! a plant under ccfls! it's just a temporary test though...just seeing if I can get some stretch out of this damn gdp, lil hoe is pissing me off.
I still need to work out 2 8"x6" soil containers to fit in there (short enough to fit under the light bars) I'll probably need to build them though. Once I figure out the soil containers I got 2 overvegged superskunk plants to throw in there that are to big for my other PC, I plan on transplanting them at an angle and lst'ing them, I was going to do 4 containers on each side dr. bud style, but the clones are taking to long. I'll probably veg a little to see the potential of the lights and to redevelop the roots into the larger containers, then it's flower time!
Looking good apples! Foiltape is the greatest thing since birthcontrol!
Scrub nice looking setup there man! I love that overhead view, almost makes me dizzy.
before foiltape
after foiltape
look! look! a plant under ccfls! it's just a temporary test though...just seeing if I can get some stretch out of this damn gdp, lil hoe is pissing me off.
I still need to work out 2 8"x6" soil containers to fit in there (short enough to fit under the light bars) I'll probably need to build them though. Once I figure out the soil containers I got 2 overvegged superskunk plants to throw in there that are to big for my other PC, I plan on transplanting them at an angle and lst'ing them, I was going to do 4 containers on each side dr. bud style, but the clones are taking to long. I'll probably veg a little to see the potential of the lights and to redevelop the roots into the larger containers, then it's flower time!
Looking good apples! Foiltape is the greatest thing since birthcontrol!
Scrub nice looking setup there man! I love that overhead view, almost makes me dizzy.
canna cola
Member
ScrubNinja:
Change the positive lead on you meter to the other socket and switch the meter to the 10A setting marked red, connect positive to positive and negative to negative to your inverter the way ST8DunWSociety has explained.
If the reading shows as less than 200mA then you set the meter to the 200mA range to get a more accurate reading, always start at the highest range when you don't know how much voltage or current you are measuring and then reduce as necessary to get a more accurate reading.
Nice box Apples.
Change the positive lead on you meter to the other socket and switch the meter to the 10A setting marked red, connect positive to positive and negative to negative to your inverter the way ST8DunWSociety has explained.
If the reading shows as less than 200mA then you set the meter to the 200mA range to get a more accurate reading, always start at the highest range when you don't know how much voltage or current you are measuring and then reduce as necessary to get a more accurate reading.
Nice box Apples.
Canna, excellent cheers. This has really been getting me down lately so I haven't been thinking or even looking at it. When I realised st8's computer/internet must have finally died like he warned about, it was like "this is just so typical" lol. I hope you can make it back, st8! You will always be remembered by the ccfl gang!
I will get on that soon. And I'm going to assume I have to plug the red lead back into the one in it's in in the photo, to take the more accurate reading. Hopefully once I get that number it will all make sense to me. But I'll post it all here.
Stealth: very nice. I have 2 seeds pushing the surface
I will get on that soon. And I'm going to assume I have to plug the red lead back into the one in it's in in the photo, to take the more accurate reading. Hopefully once I get that number it will all make sense to me. But I'll post it all here.
Stealth: very nice. I have 2 seeds pushing the surface
Cool, appz. This will give us an early perspective on how they handle flower. Right on.
ST8DunWSociety
Member
Hey bro all is not lost! lol see the problem is now i'm sharing a comptuer and you know, illegal stuff, things of the suchs, so security is a top priorty because of this. Canna is right. Move your probe to the 10a, see what your reading if it's below 1 amp switch the probe to the lower hole (which states fused ma, so on and so forth). It doesn't matter which direction the leads are facing sence your are messuring current, think of it like a water meter, the little electrons are all happy and excited to be moving though your multimeter and the meter is, in a way, a wheel spinning around mesuring how many electrons are flowing through it, thus why you need to have it wired in series (look back at my diagram). Figure this shit out, give me your readings and we will get this solved!
And this brings me to another basic electrical theory to note! You can't have amps with out voltage, but you can have voltage with out amps! This is the difference between potential energy, and static energy, With electricty it, is in some ways related to water, with Voltage being How much water your pushing through a hose, and amps are how fine or large the stream is, tazers are like 10,000 volts, but like 10mahs, (i'm guessing but you get my drift) it hurts like hell, but won't kill you. Now 36volts is the threshold at which you will more than likely get killed if you complete the circuit. Sorry, psyco babble.
G'luck
And this brings me to another basic electrical theory to note! You can't have amps with out voltage, but you can have voltage with out amps! This is the difference between potential energy, and static energy, With electricty it, is in some ways related to water, with Voltage being How much water your pushing through a hose, and amps are how fine or large the stream is, tazers are like 10,000 volts, but like 10mahs, (i'm guessing but you get my drift) it hurts like hell, but won't kill you. Now 36volts is the threshold at which you will more than likely get killed if you complete the circuit. Sorry, psyco babble.
G'luck
Hey guys sorry for the delay in this! I have got one bulb, one ballast. On the 10A setting, the reading I get flickers between .4 and .5, mostly .5. The bulb only half lights. I didn't get a startup measurement because it's the fine measurement we need, right?
So I've replaced the probe to the regular bit, but which setting do I switch it to? Like, what "o'clock" on the dial cos there are multiple instances of numbers, lol. I switched it to 2000m in the top left section, but the meter just fluctuates when it's not connected, and goes straight to -1 when it's connected. No light. Doesn't seem right? Or do I want the 1000?
Edit: lol that was the wrong section wasnt it
Well, stuck again
by the way, the total lighting will be 12 bulbs, on 12 inverters. Thanks.
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Lord Doobie
Member
LMAO!
Hilarious pics, doods...Better leave some room for your plants
Scrub, be very careful with those settings. You can blow the bulb without it ever lighting...not even a poof...I've blown stuff up myself (not paying attention)...Maybe try calling an licensed electrician and ask
Hilarious pics, doods...Better leave some room for your plants
Scrub, be very careful with those settings. You can blow the bulb without it ever lighting...not even a poof...I've blown stuff up myself (not paying attention)...Maybe try calling an licensed electrician and ask
hey scrub, my electrician friend says to just overpower everything. then if the draw is quite high you equipment will still handle it. sorry this is not very scientific. this friend of mine does setups for concerts, he does the stage and lights and speakers etc...
lol cheers Lord D. It should be simple enough when I (meaning they) get these numbers worked out. I didn't panic too much about it half lighting, as they can take quite a barrage - check em out in sound activated mode on youtube. I tried it just with the hum from my computer and you'd think it was gonna explode the way it was strobing, but this is the benefit of the cold cathode design, apparently. But yeah, not too sure about my experience. I'm sure someone will enlighten if that's normal.
Bootz, just saw your reply now, the problem with that is, I'm *thinking* I should be switched to the A section right? on the right side of the dial. Well it seems to me that 200 m is the highest. I mean, 20 m has gotta be lower, and it goes into micro then, or whatever that backwards u is. Mu?
Edit: here is a pic of the dial again so it's on this page. (tryin to make this easier on everyone! lol)
Edit: I thought I better check and well, the light is actually only half lighting when it's wired directly to the psu now :/ I will check some things but I thought I better post that in case anyone gets confused. Cheers.
Bootz, just saw your reply now, the problem with that is, I'm *thinking* I should be switched to the A section right? on the right side of the dial. Well it seems to me that 200 m is the highest. I mean, 20 m has gotta be lower, and it goes into micro then, or whatever that backwards u is. Mu?
Edit: here is a pic of the dial again so it's on this page. (tryin to make this easier on everyone! lol)
Edit: I thought I better check and well, the light is actually only half lighting when it's wired directly to the psu now :/ I will check some things but I thought I better post that in case anyone gets confused. Cheers.
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Okay so here is where I'm at after the above edits:
I had 2 "strings" of 4-pin molexes coming out of the PSU, if you recall. So I chopped the molexes off one string, and did the above stuff, and as mentioned, the bulb half lights.
I attached the same bulb and inverter to the other string of molexes, via the included bitspower leads/switch , and it runs fine.
So basically I might go have a pipe or eight.
I won't touch a thing until someone suggests something, lol.
I had 2 "strings" of 4-pin molexes coming out of the PSU, if you recall. So I chopped the molexes off one string, and did the above stuff, and as mentioned, the bulb half lights.
I attached the same bulb and inverter to the other string of molexes, via the included bitspower leads/switch , and it runs fine.
So basically I might go have a pipe or eight.
I won't touch a thing until someone suggests something, lol.
