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Luther Burbank
Little less strength than I'm running. 2T or 1oz per gallon, so difference of 1/200th and 1/128th. Either way the stuff has a kick for less than 1% dilution.
D
DoubleDDsNuggs
If I were to choose the 100% oil then what would I use to emulsify? I can just mix with water?
I have run it up to 12ml/litre to treat RA as a soil drench...even at 2ml/litre i successfully treat leaf spot/rust...but 5ml/litre is very effective forthe brand of neem oil i use..
cyat brings up some good points...but overall i see neem tree as a potent plant just like cannabis so it can be manipulated to suit many applications...and just like my cannabis i like PURE...
dish soap works..not detergent
for small quantities using a blender/mixer can work if used ASAP...
mine comes emulsified already..
cyat brings up some good points...but overall i see neem tree as a potent plant just like cannabis so it can be manipulated to suit many applications...and just like my cannabis i like PURE...
dish soap works..not detergent
for small quantities using a blender/mixer can work if used ASAP...
mine comes emulsified already..
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Luther Burbank
Nah, it's an oil so you need some sort of surfactant to break it up. Dr. Bronner's soap will work, but there's some debate over whether or not that will strip the waxy cuticle off the leaf over time. I personally use a product called Therm-X, you can pick it up from groworganic.com - it's an extract of the yucca plant. You should need a ridiculously small amount per gallon, like 1/8 of a teaspoon, but I've never had luck with the recommended amount and usually use more. Another option is something like soapnut powder which you can acquire rather cheaply online and which has insane saponin content.
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DoubleDDsNuggs
Thank you everyone for your help! It was much appreciated!
Kygiacomo!!!
AppAlachiAn OutLaW
u can also use protekt to emulsify it and at the same time the silica will help ur plant to have thicker steams and resist pests,disease and drought better..a win win
use a smoothie maker or hand blender to mix it with water + a little soap or emulsifier.
This is Coot's neem oil foliar recipe as i have it written down.
4 tsp neem oil
2 tsp protekt
1 gallon H2O
1/4 cup aloe
Add protekt and neem together (i use shotglass), mix until emulsified.
Get 1 gallon lukewarm water (hot or cold water will cause neem to separate)
Add emulsified neem and aloe to water
shake shake shake shake shake
foliar
4 tsp neem oil
2 tsp protekt
1 gallon H2O
1/4 cup aloe
Add protekt and neem together (i use shotglass), mix until emulsified.
Get 1 gallon lukewarm water (hot or cold water will cause neem to separate)
Add emulsified neem and aloe to water
shake shake shake shake shake
foliar
G
Guest
I use the neem meal in my medium and bypass all the mess. Never experienced a taste in any of my flowers.
Use a blender or hand blender. Turn blender on with water, throw in Lecithin granules. It will emulsify immediately. Add Pure Neem Oil. Makes an emulsified concentrate that will be stable at room temp. Adjust next feed to compensate for the foliar P in Lecithin. Good luck. -granger
Former Guest
Active member
Wow. it's strange seeing these threads from the old me. The plants just got harvested and are drying right now. I would confidently go out on a limb and say that there is no taste in the buds as the neem meal didn't do as advertised for fungus gnats. I tasted a leaf before I pulled the plant and all I taste is lemon terpenes. I should probably add that the plants were not sprayed with neem at any point.
During the grow, I learned about different brands of neem and quality so could this be due to using Down To Earth brand meal and/or maybe under application at 5 lbs per 32 cuft?
would I have gotten better results using more or a different brand?
thanks all for the tips on soap nut powder, CC's recipe reminder now that I have the potassium silicate, and other well stated opinions
During the grow, I learned about different brands of neem and quality so could this be due to using Down To Earth brand meal and/or maybe under application at 5 lbs per 32 cuft?
would I have gotten better results using more or a different brand?
thanks all for the tips on soap nut powder, CC's recipe reminder now that I have the potassium silicate, and other well stated opinions
Let me toss this out--
Of the many components/compounds in neem, if we examine the uptake and fate of Azadirachtin...specifically the residue on roots, leaves and stems at different time intervals after application in soil, we get a very interesting story.
Abstract from the study that accompanies the above charts--
"A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A) was applied to the soil around the root system of potted aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) plants. The uptake, translocation, persistence and dissipation of the chemical in the plants were studied. The effect of foliar residues of AZ-A on two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) populations was also evaluated. The compound was taken up by the root system within 3 h and translocated in the stem and foliage within 3 days, confirming that AZ-A is systemic. The peak concentrations (μg/g, fresh weight) of AZ-A occurred at 10 days post-treatment, and were distributed in roots, stem and foliage in the ratio of 8.1:1.0:2.3, respectively. The rate of dissipation of AZ-A from the matrices was moderately rapid, and the residual concentrations on the last day of sampling (50 days post-treatment) in roots, stem and foliage were in the ratio 2.7:1.0:1.2, respectively. Control of mites by AZ-A residues in foliage was statistically significant, and the bioactivity declined within 30 days. The final residue of AZ-A in the soil after 50 days was about 25% of the initial value, with a half-life of dissipation of about 26 days."
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/026121949500026I
This study used a wettable powder form of Azadirachtin--I wonder what the numbers would be if Neem was applied routinely (root and/or foliar spray) and/or continuously (soil amendment).
A study I would love to see is what effect do neem components have on cannabis? After all, there is more than just "Azadirachtin"--
"The main limonoid that it contains is azadirachtin but it also contains azadiradione, fraxinellone, nimbin, salannin, salannol, vepinin, vilasinin, etc. There are three other active constituents in the oil - nimbin, nimbidin and nimbinene plus bitter principles, tannins, flavonoids and sesquiterpene derivatives."
Of the many components/compounds in neem, if we examine the uptake and fate of Azadirachtin...specifically the residue on roots, leaves and stems at different time intervals after application in soil, we get a very interesting story.
Abstract from the study that accompanies the above charts--
"A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A) was applied to the soil around the root system of potted aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) plants. The uptake, translocation, persistence and dissipation of the chemical in the plants were studied. The effect of foliar residues of AZ-A on two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) populations was also evaluated. The compound was taken up by the root system within 3 h and translocated in the stem and foliage within 3 days, confirming that AZ-A is systemic. The peak concentrations (μg/g, fresh weight) of AZ-A occurred at 10 days post-treatment, and were distributed in roots, stem and foliage in the ratio of 8.1:1.0:2.3, respectively. The rate of dissipation of AZ-A from the matrices was moderately rapid, and the residual concentrations on the last day of sampling (50 days post-treatment) in roots, stem and foliage were in the ratio 2.7:1.0:1.2, respectively. Control of mites by AZ-A residues in foliage was statistically significant, and the bioactivity declined within 30 days. The final residue of AZ-A in the soil after 50 days was about 25% of the initial value, with a half-life of dissipation of about 26 days."
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/026121949500026I
This study used a wettable powder form of Azadirachtin--I wonder what the numbers would be if Neem was applied routinely (root and/or foliar spray) and/or continuously (soil amendment).
A study I would love to see is what effect do neem components have on cannabis? After all, there is more than just "Azadirachtin"--
"The main limonoid that it contains is azadirachtin but it also contains azadiradione, fraxinellone, nimbin, salannin, salannol, vepinin, vilasinin, etc. There are three other active constituents in the oil - nimbin, nimbidin and nimbinene plus bitter principles, tannins, flavonoids and sesquiterpene derivatives."
In the context of neem meal I think this is not an apples to apples example, exp without knowing the process in which it was made.
Neem meal used in low to moderate amounts as a soil condition does not bring the same concentrations when it is used in an oil for use in pest removal.
Not to dismiss the point that azadirachtin is systemic, but knowing this Washington state still allows the use of it.
I personally won't use neem oil in flower, however I do top dress and make teas to start off my flowering pots before each run, and I have no apprehensions in regards to using it in a tea at those times as well.
I bloody hate paywalls. Sci-hub is redirecting me to Google Scholar (useless), libgen has nothing. God forbid I don't pay for a 20 year old article. Go science!....
Meanwhile, the government of Canada is giving out articles for free to anyone with a name and email address? I'll post it up if it works.
Hard to put that study in context without some idea of the application rate. Good support for the systemic nature of neem, possibly negative if adverse health effects come to light. If I remember correctly, neem seed meal has <300ppm of azadirachtin after oil processing, and presumably low levels of other limonoids.
Attached a report I found while poking around for the one linked/quoted by E420.
We do not discuss preparations of seed cake, the rest product after oil extraction, since the active ingredients are mostly removed from this material and the effects on mammals are usually little pronounced.
Meanwhile, the government of Canada is giving out articles for free to anyone with a name and email address? I'll post it up if it works.
Hard to put that study in context without some idea of the application rate. Good support for the systemic nature of neem, possibly negative if adverse health effects come to light. If I remember correctly, neem seed meal has <300ppm of azadirachtin after oil processing, and presumably low levels of other limonoids.
Attached a report I found while poking around for the one linked/quoted by E420.
We do not discuss preparations of seed cake, the rest product after oil extraction, since the active ingredients are mostly removed from this material and the effects on mammals are usually little pronounced.
Mike-they emailed me the report this morning (requested yesterday). It is over 1meg in length (scanned doc) but in the mean time, here are "snapshots" of the dosage and conclusion info --
Dosage info starts at the bottom of the 2nd column.
BTW...the level of azadirachtin in Neem Cake can vary--it can be as low as 500 ppm with some over 3000 ppm. Most Neem Oil start around 3000 ppm. So in context of neem cake vs neem oil, we are talking apples to apples...orange to oranges (fruit salad anyone?)--half life is half life.
Dosage info starts at the bottom of the 2nd column.
BTW...the level of azadirachtin in Neem Cake can vary--it can be as low as 500 ppm with some over 3000 ppm. Most Neem Oil start around 3000 ppm. So in context of neem cake vs neem oil, we are talking apples to apples...orange to oranges (fruit salad anyone?)--half life is half life.
Agree....but azadirachtin is azadirachtin...and the science is the same for both (systemic, half-life, etc). Just like "nitrogen"--urea or blood meal, both are high in Nitrogen (just different ppms).
neem meal tea as a soil condition is used at 1/4 cup in my garden.
If I use a tea to directly effect pests through introduction of neem to the root system I use at least a 1/4 cup per gallon.
Application and use is scalable, in living soil gardens you go light to use it as a preventive in case your environment becomes imbalanced and the use that would cause a like results as far as concentration is for when you already have an outbreak.
an ounce of prevention (proactive measures in properly balanced systems) is worth a pound of cured (using anything after you have an outbreak is going to have some undesirable effect on overall result beyond the extra labor needed to yield the same result)
If I use a tea to directly effect pests through introduction of neem to the root system I use at least a 1/4 cup per gallon.
Application and use is scalable, in living soil gardens you go light to use it as a preventive in case your environment becomes imbalanced and the use that would cause a like results as far as concentration is for when you already have an outbreak.
an ounce of prevention (proactive measures in properly balanced systems) is worth a pound of cured (using anything after you have an outbreak is going to have some undesirable effect on overall result beyond the extra labor needed to yield the same result)
