Can Mg def do this?

[Ziggaro]

Hey guys, I started having a problem about 2 weeks ago but it didn't affect growth any so I didn't worry about it. It started with the tips of my top leaves turning yellow and curling slightly. The bottom growth seemed unaffected at this point.
I went on vacation for 10 days and asked a fri.end to water for me. He seems to have kept up on his work, and everything seems fine except the ppms are a little low. I noticed that the top leaves have progressed a little to show the yellow tips, plus a little below the tip there are small rust spots on the. The bottom leaves also show necrosis on the ends and halfway down the margin, and interveinal chlorosis. Heres the info, and pics follow. Thankyou for all your help!!

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing? Nirvana WW
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants? 2 months
How Tall are the plants? 22 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? just turned lights a week ago to flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) n/a
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 1plant per 5 gallons pot
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using? 3-1 FFOF-Perlite
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? none so far besides yesterday when I came home and saw the leaves and gave it small doses of stuff. 1/4 tsp meta-k, 1/4 tsp calmag, 1/4 tsp bloom 1/4 tsp catalyst-- Not sure that was the right choice atm. However, I tranplanted them into the FFOF mix a little less than a month ago so I figured I needed a little something..
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? Measured runoff with 50 ppm tap water (sits out) and comes out at 350.
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.6
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Pen, calibrated right before use.
How often are you watering? about every 5 days when the pot is light
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? yesterday as mentioned previously
What size bulb are you using? 600 watt
What is the distance to the canopy? my friend let it get all the way to 12" away when I was gone, but usually its at 18-20" with air cooled hood.
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 30%
what is the canopy temperature? 75
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 65-80
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) ~265 (stanley blower)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? there is a floor fan blowing at the plants
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? I let it dry between waterings
Is your water HARD or SOFT? pretty soft- 50 ppm
What water are you using? tap sits out 24hrs
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? I took 4 cuttings total over the last 2 weeks
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? none
Are plant's infected with pest's? no

heres the progression of the yellow, and you can see near the tip the rust spots forming on the margin


heres the bottom most leaf. the one on the other side doesnt look as bad, and the set above these only shows slight interveinal chlorosis near the base


here it is from the top. the color is a tad distorted because of the flash, which makes it look a bit bluish

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, you need to add some more cal mag, use around 1 tsp per gallon or 1/2 teaspoon per gallon every watering.

It is a magnesium deficiency.

 

[Ziggaro]

Is it possible this could be toxic salt buildup or nutrient burn? The reason I ask is because the necrotic tissue in the picture is curled under. The plant has been in the soil for a month now and i just water with plain 50 ppm water or a tsp of Catalyst mixed in sometimes.
and my pen reads the ppm solution ok..but it will read 10-20 off and i've never tried another meter so i don't know how accurate it is.

i did water it with 1 tsp/gallon of calmag+ so we'll see what happens. I marked the bottom most unaffected leaf for reference (unaffected except for the main blade tip) so i will know if it spreads

Also- the topmost leaves of the plant has the "Claw" look and I haven't added any nitrogen. The leaves near the middle of the plant are very dark green, but the top is lighter. Could stored nitrogen be doing this? Or would you say its likely that my PPMs are higher than my meter says?

sorry for all the questions i hope you can help me
thanks again

 

[MynameStitch]

That is because the tissue where it yellowed was sucked dry by the plant, that is dead tissue left over that happens a lot, not just with a magnesium problem, but with others like nitrogen deficiency's and such. That is normal for the plant to be darker green and lighter at the top, the top newest leaves always have a lighter tint to them and when they get bigger they get darker, but as for the clawing, sounds like you maybe over watering them.... how often are you watering?
You got a picture of the claw look?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Is it possible this could be toxic salt buildup or nutrient burn? The reason I ask is because the necrotic tissue in the picture is curled under.



Also- the topmost leaves of the plant has the "Claw" look and I haven't added any nitrogen. The leaves near the middle of the plant are very dark green, but the top is lighter. Could stored nitrogen be doing this? Or would you say its likely that my PPMs are higher than my meter says?

I would like to agree with you and support your ponderings.
I have cut this stuff with 50% perlite for some HB's and they still showed symptoms of overfert in the beginning but straightened out as time went by. Even at this diluted rate, they provided everything till the cycle's end.

Mg is an extremely slow moving macro and it's crucial to have the proper pH range for its correct absorption thru all stages if its life. An mg deficiency usually bares its face on the newer growth. The fan leaves on the main cola starts turning a lime green either due to insufficient amounts in the medium or a lockout. However, the symptoms shown by the bottom leaves on your plant are in fact caused by high levels of nitrogen in MG soil. I've had leaves do the same thing even with 1:1 ratio perlite:soil but as stated above, they straightened themselves out as they grew bigger and received no additional feedings. This is partially strain dependent, since they were HB f2s.


I used only tap water, pH 6.8 out of the tap, sufficient levels of mg and ca present. I had always thought my tap water was the culprit but in fact was my chosen medium. I tried MG afterwards and have had success.

I strongly advise against feeding them right now as i'm
almost certain that they will experience a severe nute burn.

Good luck.

 

[Ziggaro]

thankyou for your considerations, though I do not believe nute burn to be the culprit. I fed a mix (1/4 tsp meta-k, 1/4 tsp calmag, 1/4 tsp bloom 1/4 tsp) on the 10th, I checked pH on the 11th, and the 12th gave 3/4 tsp/gallon. If nute burn was the problem, I believe the problem would have sped up significantly as burns take no time at all to procure. My tap starts at 50 ppm, so I do need to supplement and I haven't because I was in rich soil. Another thing is WW is a socalled "hungry feeder" so although I did consider nute burn I am no longer considering it. Toxic salt is still in the back of my mind, but my PPM meter doesn't support either hypothesis.

How long should it take for this to stop spreading completely? It looks to be slowing down at the bottom, over the last 5 days the necrotic leaf has progressed a little further to halfway down the leaf which seems too slow to be a burn. The new leaves still have lighter colored tips, though.

and the curling problem yeah i believe it was overwatering since i did put water through the pot 3 days in a row..i think its going away
heres a pic anyhow

 

[sirgrassalot]

Hey they're starting to look nice. I think they'll take off now.

I'm sending this girl into the chamber to flower starting this long weekend.

 

[Ziggaro]

Nice lookin girl, sirgrassalot. whats up with the top leaves? or is that flash?

I would like to agree with you and support your ponderings.
I have cut this stuff with 50% perlite for some HB's and they still showed symptoms of overfert in the beginning but straightened out as time went by. Even at this diluted rate, they provided everything till the cycle's end.

... However, the symptoms shown by the bottom leaves on your plant are in fact caused by high levels of nitrogen in MG soil. I've had leaves do the same thing even with 1:1 ratio perlite:soil

seems like you are saying i use MiracleGrow soil..which I don't.
I'm using Ocean Forest soil and its been a month since I transplanted into it

 

[sirgrassalot]

I did use the hot shoe & the MH is on in that pic from earlier today. Here's a better colour representation of my ladies. Straight from the camera with the internal flash no hot shoe. The light green is from the new growth & it's lights out 6/18 so it gets cool around her for a while. I happened to be in the mood last night so I was up doing her watering/feed @ 2:30am. Playful girl I topped her once, tied her down & pinched her. She still loves me.

Fresh picture see how she's perking up after a nice drink with a fish twist.

She's growing like a triffid 15 hrs after water & feed. 8ish hrs after first picture in earlier post.
Her sisters are pretty too.

 

[Ziggaro]

so sirgrassalot..i don't mean to be rude but do you have any information to contribute? I'm still looking for answers right now like..how long will the Mg take to translocate in the plant? I added calmag 4 days ago and haven't seen improvement.. after that post whatever u like but right now you're making the thread cluttered.
peace

 

[sirgrassalot]

Yes more than a thumbs up...do you see my first pic - it had been watered 6 hrs before snap shot - she how she's droopy like yours! They shape up as pictured in my later images. It's all there for you.

Isn't that cal mag already working, I posted they looked good since the brown tips looked much better in the second pic you posted. Cal mag is suppose to fix that. My girl had been sprayed with Epsom 2 weeks ago that shows improvement of mg deficiency within 2 days.

Maybe you can tell me how to do the thumbnail picture so I'm not so intrusive.
Can they match finger prints from a monitor?

 

[MynameStitch]

The leaves that are already affected will not recover zigg, look for the growth above it not to mess up or get affected.

 

[Ziggaro]

ahh, alright. so far so good then the new leaves seem to have chilled out with the tips
thanx again!!

 

[sirgrassalot]

I got the thumbnail down.

I had to make way for that big girl. Sweet

 

[Ziggaro]

Hey stitch, thanks for helpin me with that problem I think its all cleared up now, but I should have been thinking what else it was gonna need when I saw my runoff tested at only 350 ppm

I looked in today and the the leaf has some reddish going on at the margin tips like a K def. And the leaf stems have always been a little red on top, but it has progressed to the underside and petiole meaning some kind of deficiency

I know what I'm gonna feed it, I am just not sure what amounts to feed and I didn't wanna make a new thread to ask :/

The plant is just over 2 feet tall, 2.5 months old and I plan to give it EJ 1 tsp bloom, 1/2 tsp meta-k, and 1 tsp catalyst in 1 gallon water
Think this is too little? Bottle recommended "normal" doses of bloom and catalyst are at 1 tbs/gal, with meta-k at 1 tsp/gal so i'm using a little less than half strength

Peace

 

[Ziggaro]

So I had to water today and decided I would give them that EJ mix with some calmag. The soil runoff test on my hanna ppm meter was 320 ppm before nutes, 650 ppm after nutes.
is 650 too much ppms for soil?

 

[MynameStitch]

Na, that sounds about right for the size of the plant, but you should know in a day if it's burned which I highly doubt. they are a little over 2 feet tall right?

 

[Ziggaro]

I have some new pics, and unfortunately it seems like the problem is spreading fast. I feel like it is a K def, but I don't know if it spreads this fast (no sign of it 10 days ago, unless symptoms mixed with mg) and i fear lockout of some sort. i also still have a little curling going on with my lateral branches
help i don't want stress hermies like last time!! :'(













this is the other thing i've been worrying about. it only shows up on some of the lateral branches, not all. sometimes on one shoot and not another on the same branch..

 

[gratefuldawg]

Kinda looks like a little bit of nitrogen defic too. Not sure if you want to use Earthjuice bloom just yet..has no N.

 

[sirgrassalot]

Kinda looks like a little bit of nitrogen defic too. Not sure if you want to use Earthjuice bloom just yet..has no N.

I concur mine drinks fish up to 2 weeks into flower mixed with the PBP Bloom.