Can an old potent strain lose potency

[Roadblock]

The strain is White Rhino which Ive had for 20yrs, only cuttings.

I got it back from a friend I gave it to 5 years ago and did a run it looked healthy no issues other than a few spider mites , ran a 9wks flower and the potency is nowhere near what it was before, it's not as sticky with less taste, I'm running CMH 600s with plenty of light, temps have been all in range right through the grow, there were no setbacks or hold-ups they powered of and did their thing only no potency.

My question is can a strain lose potency over years of cuttings when it appears to be very healthy, can the nutrient values cause a potency drop?

 

[Loc Dog]

I have heard of dudding in clone strains, but wonder if it is broad mites. You really need to search damaged leaves with microscope to find them, and totally fuck over the plants. I had to use Snypes neem method to get rid of them, then took cuts and started over. Have heard of people getting them over and over in their grow space. I only had them once from having plants outside.

In GG4 group there was a lot of discussion about tobacco mosaic virus, but think it was ruled out.

Might want to look at some of these articles - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clone+stra...romentp&ia=web

 

[moose eater]

Changes in quality or content of amendments, changes in water, etc. 'Genetic drift', in my understanding, is slower when going clone to clone over time (I have some 20-24 yr.-old mothers here that I've kept going for these years; Sensi Seeds California Indica <24-yrs.-old> and Greenhouse original Super Lemon Haze <about 20 yrs. old>, to name a couple). That said, I think genetic drift is possible.

I -can- assert that the best genetics can have varying outcomes, crop to crop, based on fertilizer, ph, and other environmental factors.

 

[Loc Dog]

Changes in quality or content of amendments, changes in water, etc. 'Genetic drift', in my understanding, is slower when going clone to clone over time (I have some 20-24 yr.-old mothers here that I've kept going for these years; Sensi Seeds California Indica <24-yrs.-old> and Greenhouse original Super Lemon Haze <about 20 yrs. old>, to name a couple). That said, I think genetic drift is possible.

I -can- assert that the best genetics can have varying outcomes, crop to crop, based on fertilizer, ph, and other environmental factors.

Regarding PH, I once ruined a crop by calibrating my cheap yellow tester to only 7. I had to keep readjusting it, and wound up the batteries were dying, and giving progressively worse readings. I then learned to calibrate with 7 and 4.

 

[BobChronic6505]

Is getting it tested an option for you?

 

[Dropped Cat]

I flower a cut of sam's thunk ten years now, and can say environment plays a crucial role in consistency.

Many growers can confirm that a cut vegged under sunlight can re invigorate a constricted cultivar.

Opens it up, so to speak..

 

[Roadblock]

What it turned out to be was the feed, it was too high in N during bloom, went again with cuts of them and with the right feed the strain was ok again.

 

[Switcher56]

What it turned out to be was the feed, it was too high in N during bloom, went again with cuts of them and with the right feed the strain was ok again.

Quite possible...

Perhaps unrelated, this was posted in a different thread which I believe may be of some value based on your discovery (feed). I grow 2-3 strains at a time, normally 2.

This discussion takes place every now and again and they always go full circle. The good thing about 'em, it refreshes the site

IMHO it is and always has been a decent investment (relatively speaking), considering the overall savings one can enjoy, not to mention in "most" cases better quality than what is available legally. It then becomes a moot point.

It was also discussed and proven that PAR meters are not necessarily out of reach ($). Now if I had a commercial grow, then I would be seeking experts advice (Shane) what is out there for the best bang for your buck. e.g you don't necessarily needs to drive your Rolls to the corner store for a qt of milk.

I will be starting my next grow last week of Aug. After rereading this thread I am going to try something different this time around. I will flower @650 for a couple of reasons, gained from experience. I was getting some light bleaching, nothing serious just the tips and a few leaf edges about 2mm and, not all girls were affected, besides genetics (where everyone falls to) it could also be their diet and perhaps to some extent, tent management.

When I said for a couple of reasons, one is the way grow (manifold technique), where I do not need the penetration of conventional LST growing, as I don't do SCROG. So I played with my light last run. I come to find out by increasing the height of the light, I had a better "overall" coverage (broader) and although not of the same intensity (umol (center of tent)), the change of height did not diminish the lights intensity significantly. IOW, the change was non linear, in favour of a slight increase in intensity, although the center of the tent decreased. That is where broader comes into play. As the light is focused in a narrow beam, increasing the height, one would expect an increase on the periphery, which it did. This discovery (by accident) could not have been accomplished without a PAR meter, regardless of price.

 

[Stizo]

Chimera discusses and gives a comprehensive explanation of genetic drift on the pot cast on soundcloud. It seems it's widely misunderstood. Environmental factors and nutrition definitely play a role. An obvious example is certain varieties changing colour in different temperatures. Like taking a landrace out it's point of origin and growing in a completely different setting. The plant is not going to have the same attributes and characteristics. Some will be there and some will niot.

 

[CrustyCruz]

Many growers can confirm that a cut vegged under sunlight can re invigorate a constricted cultivar.

Opens it up, so to speak..

Scientists can confirm also.


If indoor bros hardened their plants with leaf temp:

Wouldn't fix the other dozen issues making their strains unrecognizable though.
​​​​

 

[CrustyCruz]

What it turned out to be was the feed, it was too high in N during bloom, went again with cuts of them and with the right feed the strain was ok again.

Elevated N kills metabolome quantity, not quality.. PK is what wrecks the strain.

 

[f-e]

Outside with lots of root space can reset a plant somewhat. We may need to prepare the plant for this, with gradual introduction to that natural environment it's not adapted to live in anymore. It may well get bleached by the UV levels present, which is the death of tissue grown in a manner so different to how the plant evolved, it can't survive outside. These are huge clues to the fact that sending them back where they came from, will reactivate dormant capabilities.

20 years of captivity is a long time. How many cutting only plants do we have from the 90s? They are a reason to get excited, because few make it to such an age. There is also the chance he swapped it. Like the proverbial goldfish that dies while the owner is on holiday. Or the side by side where a cutting comes from a wayward branch. 5 years away.. it's a while.

As it looks okay, it probably is. Old stock wants to flower. It may harden off, refusing to grow, as it just wants to bloom. Then rooting becomes an issue. Once rooting takes a while, your plant is no longer viable. You want the fastest rooting, vigorous growing plants, as a sign they are healthy. If they are falling behind right away, that plant isn't what is used to be.

Plant looks alright though... it just needs a few months to learn it's environment again. Presuming nothing has changed.

 

[Great outdoors]

I have certainly seen this before. After a certain amount of years a strain can lose its former glory. 20yrs is a long time. Especially if you kept cloning from clones and didn't keep mother's multiple years.

 

[Roadblock]

I have certainly seen this before. After a certain amount of years a strain can lose its former glory. 20yrs is a long time. Especially if you kept cloning from clones and didn't keep mother's multiple years.

Never kept mothers must have been 500 times at least clones from clones. Was only selecting for the most vigorous starts and uniformity eliminating the cows and calves, I worked it out Ive had the White Rhino for 22 yrs.

 

[Dropped Cat]

Never kept mothers must have been 500 times at least clones from clones. Was only selecting for the most vigorous starts and uniformity eliminating the cows and calves, I worked it out Ive had the White Rhino for 22 yrs.

That's good, which White Rhino do you keep anyway. I wonder.

I hold the Afghan T female cross, and it is all good.

 

[10ftclone]

potency comes from seeds. clones have always lost all potency. its not live.

 

[f-e]

Wuuurt?
Clones are the same plant. Very much alive, and people keep them 20 years or more. That is crazy talk

 

[10ftclone]

well nobody asked about seeds.

 

[Gene.bank.uk]

Never kept mothers must have been 500 times at least clones from clones. Was only selecting for the most vigorous starts and uniformity eliminating the cows and calves, I worked it out Ive had the White Rhino for 22 yrs.

I can’t believe you have this strain I have been looking for this since 2003 literally the whole reason I started collecting strains but have never come across it again I would give one of my limbs for a cutting if that lol for you to have cutting of it for the last 22 years is amazing I had her from 1999-2003 and that was the last I have seen of her and I am still searching and am determined to find her again your a very lucky man to have her and well done for keeping her around for so long wish I could say the same lol I adore this strain so much it’s my all time favourite can’t beat it hands down number 1 in my book