California - AUMA qualifies for November ballot, now known as Prop 64

[oceangrownkush]

"AUMA is considered a massive disappointment by many long-time activists in terms of criminal justice and true cannabis reform. So much so, that California NORML hasn’t fully endorsed the proposition, calling it about as conservative as it could be without defeating the very purpose of legalization. Ellen Kemp, the Deputy Director of California NORML says it’s merely 60% legalization."

http://www.charlogreene.com/feature...ervative-measure-only-offers-60-legalization/

"It does not bring me any joy to have to write this. I was hopeful that by this time in the quest to legalize cannabis in the State of California that we would have a general consensus on at least one somewhat reasonable initiative effort for 2016. Alas, we are nowhere close; and the initiative being touted by the Napster himself, Sean Parker, is an unacceptable 62 plus page regulatory nightmare that will tie the hands of our industry for decades to come. Yet somehow folks in this industry are looking to this well-funded over-privileged cannabis “reform” Act as some inevitable thing that is just going to happen. So I would like to be the first to step up to tell Mr. Parker, his buddy Justin Hartfield of Weedmaps, and anyone else supporting this stupid waste of time, money, and resources to politely, “GO FUCK YOURSELF.”

http://reformca.org/freedom/2015/12/11/dear-sean-parker…-go-fuck-yourself….-love,-weed/

AUMA is basically cut and paste from Washington's I-502, which as some of you may not know has recently completely destroyed the Washington medical cannabis community. Please everyone vote NO and tell your family and friends to vote no. Just like Washington's red law the people pushing it are promising it won't affect medical Cannabis, but because it mentions and alters Prop 215 law while simultaneously having a clause that the California legislature can alter any language of the law with a simple 2/3rds majority vote it absolutely has the potential to become a 100% replacement of the 215 culture in CA - and if we know anything about politicians it's that they love to control shit and fuck shit up.. Don't trade your protected medical Cannabis rights for medical Cannabis privileges subject to revocation by the state at a whim.. VOTE NO ON PROP 64

 

[Oakhills]

It is too restrictive. Six plants can equal 24 grams or sixty pounds depending on the grower. Limiting the amount of strains sucks too. What if I am breeding six females with six different males, I'd be over the limit? Also, the medical restrictions imposed will be crappy too. This bill is way too regulated...

 

[yesum]

Yea the numbers are ridiculous but if you go over the limit it is a $250 fine only. Still far better than now. Vote yes yeehaw.

 

[iBogart]

Ya'll wanna go through this again? https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=326866

Listen to me, faggot, THIS LAW DOES LIMIT MEDICAL PATIENTS TO ONE OUNCE, so FUCK OFF.

It limits you to an ounce on your body when you leave your house. You can keep all the cannabis that your plants produce on your property. Cities can not ban personal indoor grows. I believe green houses can be considered indoor if they are locked and secure

.CULTIVATION: Adults could cultivate up to six plants and possess the marijuana from these plants at their residence for personal use (Sec. 11362.1(3)). No more than six plants per residence. (N.B: this differs from the new limit for medical users under MMRSA, which allows 100 square feet of growing space per patient, with collective gardens of up to 5 patients). All plants and harvested marijuana in excess of one ounce must be (1) kept with the person’s private residence or on its grounds, (2) in a locked apace, and (3) not visible from a public place. (11362.2). Violations of (1) –(3) are punishable as infractions with a maximum $250 fine. Cities and counties may regulate and prohibit cultivation outdoors, but cannot completely prohibit cultivation inside a private residence or accessory structure that is “fully enclosed and secure.” (11362.2(b)).

It protects prop 215 although there will be a new 15% excise tax on rec and medicinal. If you get your state card you are exempt from the 8% state sales tax.
MEDICAL USE. - SECTION 5.

The initiative does not alter the protections of the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 (Prop 215) allowing medical use of marijuana (11362.45(i)). Physician recommendations must conform to minimal standards already established under MMRSA and current medical marijuana legislation (11362.712).

ID CARDS: Qualified patients must possess state ID cards if they want to be exempted from the 7.5+% sales tax currently imposed on marijuana sales (34011(g)). However, they will be subject to a new 15% excise tax and a $9.25/ounce cultivation tax. No card is required to enjoy other legal protections of Prop. 215. The cost of the state patient ID card is limited to $100, or $50 for Medi-Cal patients; free of charge for indigent patients (11362.755); this is a reduction from the prevailing fees in most counties. Identifying information in the ID cards is made subject to the Confidentiality of Medical Information Act (11362.713).

 

[oceangrownkush]

It requires Cannabis to be transported in fucking armored vehicles. And anyone without a locking trunk is boned per the DUI rules. Convoluted, overly restrictive, incoherent authoritarian pandering.

 

[jump /injack]

Prop 64 will do away with medical marijuana, Prop 64's wording very carefully says that, it will change to the dictates of the California Legislature that just gave California gun control like New York's but the Legislators are by the same law allowed concealed carry. Anything the changes Prop 215 in any way is a no starter, no one trusts any Democrat politician, why would anyone let a politician have any say so on their medicine. Fuck them, all taxes ever derived from Cannabis should be gone into its medical usage, this is not for a bunch of profligates that can't even stop 50% of our water flow into the ocean during a drought.

 

[oceangrownkush]

Let's sort out this MMRSA beast before we invite globalist investment to California. MMRSA HASNT EVEN TAKEN EFFECT YET YOU FUCKING PIRATES

 

[armedoldhippy]

It requires Cannabis to be transported in fucking armored vehicles.

source? not YOU...and i would not have a vehicle that i could not lock the trunk on. a locked tool box in the bed of a truck would probably suffice...

 

[Uchi Mata]

The status quo:
-Anyone in the state can become a patient easily.
-Patients can buy good MMJ for approximately $200-$440/oz.
-Patients can have up to 8oz total, with 1oz on them.
-Patients can grow 6 mature or 12 immature.
-Patients can combine their limits relatively safely up to 99 plants.
-Patients can vend their excess to dispensaries.
-Caregivers can have an unlimited number of patients.
-Local authorities often ban or limit outdoor growing.

With MMRSA/AUMA, we gain the right to:
-Purchase cannabis without a recommendation.
-Conduct a for-profit recreational grow if we can show residency before 2015 and obtain landlord permission, local/county permission, and state permission.
-Conduct a for-profit medical grow if we can obtain landlord permission, local/county permission, and state permission.

We lose the right to...
-Grow 6 mature or 12 immature and combine plant limits (now limited to 6 per residence).
-Have over 5 patients/500sqft.
-Vend excess product to dispensaries.
-Participate in the industry if we have a felony drug conviction.

Wholesale prices will drop, quality will drop, and retail prices will rise:
-Growers will need to be permitted and licensed by the state and county/local authority, along with any number of other government agencies. This adds to grower overhead.
-Due to zoning restrictions, growers will have to rent industrial/agricultural property. Landlords must give permission and competition for limited space will be high, so price per square foot will go up (currently $12-$14/sq ft in Adelanto). This adds to grower overhead.
-Track and trace costs will add to grower overhead
-Local authorities can add taxes (currently $25/sq ft in Desert Hot Springs).
-$9.25/oz state tax on growers, plus $2.75/oz tax on leaves
-Grower to distributor: Transporter takes a percentage
-Distributor to testing: Testing facility takes a fee
-Distributor to dispensary: Distributor takes a percentage
-15% excise tax on consumers
-7.5%+ sales and use tax on consumers
-This all adds up to some very high prices and some very low quality as mega-growers come to dominate the market. Ever smoke Colorado rec weed? Prices are East Coast black market level and quality is...bad.

Conclusions:
-These laws ask me to either grow my own (but no more than 6 plants, and not outside, and no selling any to recoup the costs) or buy shitty mass-produced hydro for exorbitant prices.
-It prices the small grower out of the market. Not explicitly, but given the framework of the law you're crazy if you think you're going to make money in the legal market without some serious capital.
-It makes it no more legal to grow or smoke cannabis (CA MMJ is already de facto legalization), and in many cases makes it less legal.

Why would you vote to 'legalize' something that's already more legal than you're voting to make it? Vote down AUMA and move to force a restructuring or repeal of MMRSA.

 

[iBogart]

The status quo:
-Anyone in the state can become a patient easily.
-Patients can buy good MMJ for approximately $200-$440/oz.
-Patients can have up to 8oz total, with 1oz on them.
-Patients can grow 6 mature or 12 immature.
-Patients can combine their limits relatively safely up to 99 plants.
-Patients can vend their excess to dispensaries.
-Caregivers can have an unlimited number of patients.
-Local authorities often ban or limit outdoor growing.

With MMRSA/AUMA, we gain the right to:
-Purchase cannabis without a recommendation.
-Conduct a for-profit recreational grow if we can show residency before 2015 and obtain landlord permission, local/county permission, and state permission.
-Conduct a for-profit medical grow if we can obtain landlord permission, local/county permission, and state permission.

We lose the right to...
-Grow 6 mature or 12 immature and combine plant limits (now limited to 6 per residence).
-Have over 5 patients/500sqft.
-Vend excess product to dispensaries.
-Participate in the industry if we have a felony drug conviction.

Wholesale prices will drop, quality will drop, and retail prices will rise:
-Growers will need to be permitted and licensed by the state and county/local authority, along with any number of other government agencies. This adds to grower overhead.
-Due to zoning restrictions, growers will have to rent industrial/agricultural property. Landlords must give permission and competition for limited space will be high, so price per square foot will go up (currently $12-$14/sq ft in Adelanto). This adds to grower overhead.
-Track and trace costs will add to grower overhead
-Local authorities can add taxes (currently $25/sq ft in Desert Hot Springs).
-$9.25/oz state tax on growers, plus $2.75/oz tax on leaves
-Grower to distributor: Transporter takes a percentage
-Distributor to testing: Testing facility takes a fee
-Distributor to dispensary: Distributor takes a percentage
-15% excise tax on consumers
-7.5%+ sales and use tax on consumers
-This all adds up to some very high prices and some very low quality as mega-growers come to dominate the market. Ever smoke Colorado rec weed? Prices are East Coast black market level and quality is...bad.

Conclusions:
-These laws ask me to either grow my own (but no more than 6 plants, and not outside, and no selling any to recoup the costs) or buy shitty mass-produced hydro for exorbitant prices.
-It prices the small grower out of the market. Not explicitly, but given the framework of the law you're crazy if you think you're going to make money in the legal market without some serious capital.
-It makes it no more legal to grow or smoke cannabis (CA MMJ is already de facto legalization), and in many cases makes it less legal.

Why would you vote to 'legalize' something that's already more legal than you're voting to make it? Vote down AUMA and move to force a restructuring or repeal of MMRSA.

Lots of opinionated assumptions.


As a consumer, here is what I'd like to see:

I want quality control, as in a grow facility that is inspected for proper conditions and cleanliness.

I want the product tested for pesticides and other chemicals. I want accurate concentration information.

I want organic product tested and inspected and held to the same standards as any other organically grown produce.

I want to be able to grow my own for my own personal use

I don't want the city or county to tell me I can't grow in my house for my own personal use.

The market will be so competitive in California, I would only expect top quality product sitting on the shelves. Anything less, and the people won't buy it, they'll grow their own.

It's clear choice for me this November. California is going to rock the foundation once the media reports legalization has passed in this great state. It won't matter who the president is. They're a lame duck first day in office cause we just bucked the system!

 

[Uchi Mata]

Lots of opinionated assumptions.


As a consumer, here is what I'd like to see:

I want quality control, as in a grow facility that is inspected for proper conditions and cleanliness.

I want the product tested for pesticides and other chemicals. I want accurate concentration information.
-Colorado has this. It doesn't help. The stuff you can buy will be hydro grown, non-flushed, machine-trimmed, and uncured. It's all about cutting overhead.

I want organic product tested and inspected and held to the same standards as any other organically grown produce.
-This would be nice, but it won't happen. It's contingent on national legalization, in which case we wouldn't need this law anyway.

I want to be able to grow my own for my own personal use
-You already can.

I don't want the city or county to tell me I can't grow in my house for my own personal use.
-They technically can't right now, though some have tried.

The market will be so competitive in California, I would only expect top quality product sitting on the shelves. Anything less, and the people won't buy it, they'll grow their own.
-Look at Colorado. Highly competitive, very low quality product.

It's clear choice for me this November. California is going to rock the foundation once the media reports legalization has passed in this great state. It won't matter who the president is. They're a lame duck first day in office cause we just bucked the system!
-Anything over 99 plants is subject to a federal raid at any time. They've played nice with CO/WA/OR, but once California drives their small growers into the black market there may be a change of tune.

Another aspect that worries me is that we're ceding power to the legislature. The language of the bill allows them to change it any time or any way they see fit without a vote. MMRSA was unconstitutional, but AUMA just goes right ahead and gives them the power to do that legally.

 

[subrob]

The impact we can have as a community voting this down far outweighs any other impact it will have..
I used to be the "vote yes no matter what cuz it's better than now" guy...and be pretty vocal and steadfast about it...but guys like mean Mr mustard finally wore me down...
This is the beginning of a new war...and the better ground we start with the better we will do in the long run...and it's gonna be a LONG war for control...
The people who smoke my herb are going to smoke my herb no matter what..I won't lose a single solitary person..
But I don't like politicians giving money to people who have spent a billion fighting cannabis only to pull strings last minute and reign their puppets in and start giving orders

 

[subrob]

I should clarify
I have no idea what mean mr mustard thinks about this
I was referring to earlier arguments and the fact his approach and logic wore me down

 

[redlaser]

Well now I'm wanting to hear mr. mustard's take on all this.

I can understand that if your from a state with no medical cannabis program that this would sound better than nothing, but if you are in California you should be able to get a recommendation if you want one. Maybe your primary doctor won't write one but it doesn't have to come from him.

 

[redlaser]

Far better for 215 patients?

 

[iBogart]

The impact we can have as a community voting this down far outweighs any other impact it will have..
I used to be the "vote yes no matter what cuz it's better than now" guy...and be pretty vocal and steadfast about it...but guys like mean Mr mustard finally wore me down...
This is the beginning of a new war...and the better ground we start with the better we will do in the long run...and it's gonna be a LONG war for control...
The people who smoke my herb are going to smoke my herb no matter what..I won't lose a single solitary person..
But I don't like politicians giving money to people who have spent a billion fighting cannabis only to pull strings last minute and reign their puppets in and start giving orders

Everyone is not going to get everything they want on the first go. Look where we've come since 1996. This a progression. Get it? This is not the internet where you're programmed at the click of the button to be instantly gratified. AUMA is a good law. Not the best, but a good law in which we all SHOULD be able to comprise on.

The politicians you speak of are not all the same ones in office. They change, and with them their policies. A dead horse point, but we need to keep voting in people who favor legalization and eventually our sacred herb will be treated like tomatoes. That process too is a progression.

 

[oceangrownkush]

No one I suggesting legalization has to be perfect, but it has to be better than this. This is not legalization this is state authoritarian theft and bribery. DENNIS PERON author of Prop 215 recently spoke public ally against AUMA if that tells you anything!! 215 was written to be UNFUCKWITABLE by the legislative body by design, AUMA is written to be complicit with legislative tinkering by design and alters prop 215 by voter initiative to allow this tinkering to bleed into prop 215 rights, literally signing away medical rights in exchange for medical privileges.

 

[paladin420]

As long as our enemies are writing the rules we growers will lose in the long run..

 

[ashna]

Do MMRSA/AUMA give any protections for employment and residence? I found nothing in any of the summaries on them.

ie under the current MMJ, your employer can fire you if you have THC metabolites on a drug test with no recourse, and your landlord can evict you if you're caught smoking. Sure, it's nice to be able to carry an ounce on you, but can smoking this semi-legal substance still get you fired?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Do MMRSA/AUMA give any protections for employment and residence? I found nothing in any of the summaries on them.

ie under the current MMJ, your employer can fire you if you have THC metabolites on a drug test with no recourse, and your landlord can evict you if you're caught smoking. Sure, it's nice to be able to carry an ounce on you, but can smoking this semi-legal substance still get you fired?

Specifically mentions that employers can still drug test for hiring, firing, etc. No mention of landlords, meaning they still have that power since it's their property.