C99 seedling has a "secondary plant" growing near its stem?

[bigbadbiddy]

Hi folks,

I have a C99 from peakseedsBC in veg atm.

It looks quite funny (sorry for shitty pic, had trouble with the light in a different angle) in terms of overall structure and is not the healthiest or most vigorous looking plant.

However, it is certainly interesting looking and near its stem, a second "seedling" has poked its head out of the soil.


I have seen this behavior before in other vegetables/fruits but usually the secondary plant at some point just started to shoot up for more light, eventually fall over and die.

So far this has not happened with the C99 but the little secondary plant has started to develop small leaves instead. Has been going for about 6 days now.


My question to you guys is if anyone has experience with this in Canna and what I can/should expect. Is this a sign of weakness/undesireable? Or is this something great to look forward to, potentially even for breeding?

 

[WelderDan]

It's a twin. Two seedlings from one seed. One is usually a runt.

 

[The English Cut]

I had this with a Bangi Haze seed last year, the secondary plant was indeed a runt at first, but I kept it and it turned out to be superior than the bigger one in every way. I think it was Tom Hill who said not to ignore the runt in the corner.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

So a twofer and they are not genetically the same but can be very different one from the other?

Very interesting!

Gonna train the bigger one so it doesn't take the light from the runt too much and see what develops.

Thanks folks!

 

[PoweredByLove]

i'm pretty certain that second thing is gonna be a weed.

 

[Nup]

Also had twins from one seed. As said above; keep it!

It can catch up, and may end up giving you two phenos.

 

[Betterhaff]

Gonna train the bigger one so it doesn't take the light from the runt too much and see what develops.

For some reason I can't enlarge the picture but if they are big enough and hardy you might want to truy and separate them as opposed to training. A little more work and space but at least they won't be competing with each other in the same pot.

 

[MrBungle]

I've had 2 pop from one bean before but they were closer together than that, but I suppose its possible to have a traveler.. a true oddity... if I saw one dominant over the other, but both looking healthy over all, I'd watch and see what happens, but if one or both start to look like they are stressed... I'd either try to separate the runt or clone it, then remove it... Or it could be a rogue weed like powered by love says

 

[MJPassion]

I'm for rogue random weed... not of the cannabis variety.

The cotyledons look off as do the first leaves... they don't look like cannabis to me but the pic is a bit fuzzy too.

It kind of looks like cat nip or some other mint family plant.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Yeah but look at the C99 seedling itself.

It looks hella weird as well.
The leaf structure n everything looks nothing like your normal canna variety.

They are either both going to be runty bastards or who knows.

I too subscribe to the philosophy that the ugliest, worst looking runt can sometimes yield unexpected results.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Could be, I have no experience with C99.

Just compared it to the other plants and it looked a lot less ... how to put it ...

The leafs are not very serrated and quite long. It also doesn't grow very bushy and just doesn't look very "cannabis-like" when compared to the other plants.

Definitely the oddest looking plant I have atm.

 

[MJPassion]

If your talking about twins from one seed, it happens from time to time.

If your talking about the seedling that the red arrow is pointing at... it doesn't look like cannabis to me. But as I said earlier, the pic is a bit fuzzy.

Would you please clarify what the arrow is supposed to be pointing at?

 

[MJPassion]

Looks like a normal c99 to me, nothing special or odd about the leaf structure?

I have read that when twins come from a single seed then one of them is a carbon copy of the mother plant. I forget who posted this info but it was here on icmag

Peace

I think whoever posted that BS doesn't have a clue how genetic recombination works.

I mean... Carbon copies dint come from selfed plants so there's no way on earth that a male/female combo is goint to be a carbon copy of the mother.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I'm talking about both

The arrow is supposed to be pointing at the twin (it is a shitty pic, sorry, like I said I had trouble with lighting in a different angle).

But the seedplant itself also looks weird (to me) when compared to the other plants.

Here's an "aerial" shot for some overview.
Number 5 is the C99 with the twin sprouting at the edge.
All plants in the pic were germed and transplanted at the same time. Note the huge differences among the plants.
All 4 remaining Critical Mass plants (1,2,3 and 14) are exceptional as is Skunk (10) and Master Kush x Skunk (9) and G13 x Skunk (12).
Skunk (10) also has very round and thick indica looking leaves. So I am assuming an Afghan leaning pheno. There are 1 or two more Skunks in the lot but none noteworthy so far.

The C99 in question (5) is very weird looking compared to the others, don't you agree?
The secondary plant or "twin" growing near its stem is just the tip of the ice berg I suppose.
Plant 7 is the only other remaining C99. Looked very runty but has started to catch back up.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I think the discussion might be moot soon anyway.

I checked again on them today and they had quite the growth spurt in the last 3 days.

The "twin" however did not and looks about the same as in the picture. The larger seedling did experience a growth spurt and is now covering almost all of the "twin" with its fan leaves.

I think without considerable training or separating the twin, he won't make it in the long run.

But let's wait and see

 

[Arf]

Yeah I had a widow do that recently, a double yolk, they both were runts and died before they got more than a couple of inches tall. Mind you the seed was 15years old!

 

[bigbadbiddy]

The main plant is not really runty at all.

Compared to the other C99 I have left it is certainly not as pretty and bushy and the leaf and growth structure is odd.

But it is about twice as large as the other C99.

Gonna wait and see for now.
The little twin has only 1 pair of leaves, very small but healthy looking.

 

[The English Cut]

I was looking for some pictures of my Bangi Haze twins, here's when I transplanted them from rootrainers to pots. The twins are in the module 2nd from right:

and here they are later on, the runt is the bud at the front:

As you can see, for the first run the smaller plant produced very little, but it smelt sooooo good that after I'd chopped the bigger plant, I let the smaller twin reveg in this pot, then replanted outdoors with a clone of the bigger twin. Smaller one stayed bushy & compact but was all bud, ended up producing better than the bigger one:

 

[Betterhaff]

Something to do with diploid copies of the motherplant due to polyembryony...

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6250577&postcount=302

Is is a perfect example of Polyembryony. One seedling usually the weakest, may be sexual, the others arise apomictically from cells in the nucellus and are diploid copies of the mother plant.

With polyembryony the zygote splits and produces multiple embryos, essentially identical twins, triplets, etc. These are basically genetically identical to each other but different from the mother.


@The English Cut. Where did you get those seed starter pots? I like that they split apart like that.

 

[The English Cut]

@The English Cut. Where did you get those seed starter pots? I like that they split apart like that.

Hi Betterhaff, they're called Rootrainers, made in UK by a couple of different companies, available in Europe to some extent too and thanks to google i now know they're made in canada too. http://www.rootrainersinternational.com/roottindex.html

I like using them but tbh I won't be buying any more - they're not cheap and they are really very flimsy, great design but the plastic they use splits so easily that you have to be really careful handling and storing them if you want them to last longer than a season. Hope that helps.