Buttcrack, the soil grower needs coco growers advice

[Guest]

I just recently switch to growing in coco and sometimes when I feed I get rams heads? I’m thinking it’s over watering? Because a few minutes after I feed they go back to looking just fine and healthy? I read some where that rams heads could also be a indication of some kind of lock out? Can someone please help this newbie coco grower? Here’s more info on the grow, oh yeah these are mother plants or at least future mother s

1. Canna coco medium right out of the bag
2. Tap water 288ppm, ph 8.0 before any nutrients added
3. 3 gallon square pots
4. botanicare line
5. The mix: Pbp grow5ml.,liquid karma5ml.,sm905ml., calmag plus5ml.,hydrozyme5ml. To 1 gallon h2o
6. Nutrient mix after adds: 889ppm, ph6.3 - 6.1
7. So fare for about 2 weeks fed this mix( they seem to really like it other then the rams head thing , other then that they look very lush and green)
8. Leaf temperature 76 - 78degrees humidity40%
9.under 2 400w and a 4’T5 florescent light
10. Hydrohut
11. Unknown hybrid but indica dominate


If any body has a good nutrient program for mothers using botanicare
And a good flower program please add . I am reading the hand water coco thread
And will be done soon so until then any advice will do


Thank you Ic coco growers!

 

[Guest]

here go's some pic's after the ram's heads go away

 

[Guest]

63 views no replys

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

I've been growing for soon 20 years, and I had to look up "rams head" in the dictionary.
You're probably referring to a simple overwatering phenomenon. As the medium gets flooded, not enough oxygen reaches the roots, the whole metabolism of the plant slows down, photosynthesis stops, and the plant lowers its leaves, to save energy.
It shouldn't really happen in coco, because cannot retain enough liquid and the coarse coco fibers creates a 'vented' environment. But if you say it does I believe you. If the effect is only temporary, then its not really a problem, is it?

Lock-outs can have many different symptomes, this doesn't sound like one of them.

 

[EddieShoestring]

sometimes when I feed I get rams heads? I’m thinking it’s over watering? Because a few minutes after I feed they go back to looking just fine and healthy?

i don't understand-maybe they are wilting and the water brings them back to life-
how much are you watering them and how often?

 

[Guest]

Rosy Cheeks - thank you for the reply and the advice 20 years of experiance
vs. my few weeks...... i'll take your advice.

EddieShoestring - i am only watering once a day with about 5 to 10% run off i just measured the run off today and it was a number that my hanna ph, tds meter could not even read maybe that could be one of my problems as well?

 

[Kenny Lingus]

lol! Ram's Horn leaves are usually caused by overfeeding N, or excess salts. (Does not dissappear right after feeding IME)

I'll be a little blunt and say you could be benefitted from better water source and otherwise your plants don't seem to bad to me.


PS! Isn't SM90 some H2O2 product, thus killing whatever good stuff in the hygroozyme and PBP? (Or am I al wrong in this?) Never seen the products but they've been heavily discussed in organic forums...)

 

[Guest]

Hey Kenny, maybe it is time for a water filter... sm-90 is a wetting agent used to foilar and drench almost every plant i came incounter with likes this stuff. thanks for the input.

 

[Kenny Lingus]

I'd prefer a filter if I had more than 0,2EC start water... You're already at an EC of 0,4-0,6 and if the ionic makeup isn't useful to my plants that would only leave me the range of 1,0ms/cm to feed my strains what they need. The salts that are already present will just rob me the opportunity of growing at my very best, but I'll have some decent smoke...-if I'm lucky. The dissolved elements may even be harmful to the regime I've decided to use and hence making my plants die or just plain crappy. And that is not very fun as I wanna get the most from them.
-I'd use regular tap water mixed with RO/DI water... But mainly it will depend on what is present in the water you use. Get an analyzed opinion from a professional growshop/nursery or if not available in our area, ask an aquarium store (say you wanna try to keep an aquarium of plants or a salt water reef, and need to know if the water is ok!)
Many growers can use worse water than it seems like you have, but they need a designed nutrient profile to succeed. (Canna have mixes for districts with special water qualities. -Rotterdam is one I know of, and I beleive there's a Maastricht mix plus some German cities with their own formulas...)

THX for confirming what I just recently heard rumours of... SM-90 a wetting agent. This product was debated in organic hydro forums and a lot of people claimed it to be some hydrogen peroxide derivate that kill EM/BB. I cannot get it though, and for nutrients I'm stuck with common european and local brands, and the few lines in the local growshops: lose to full lines of GHE, Advanced Nutrients, Bio Nova, Plagron, Canna/BioCanna, Bio Bizz.... -And there are also some products from No Mercy, Earth Juice, Growth Technologies, and Excellent. (Guess it's way more to choose from than is ever needed, but it's a bit fun to try out some new stuff once in a while.)

I've used Canna's (Terra, Coco and Biocanna) and Bio Bizz' full series several times (And also in combinations and with other additives). Both these brands and some local general nutes have worked very well. But for Canna I'd just recommend all the boosters/additives, all the mediums, and the coco nutes. (Terra sucked in pots, and Biovega/Bioflores weren't potent enough the first year.) All Bio Bizz products been very fine, but Alg-a-mic had a short shelf life (could be due to less restocking/sales).
-I've grown with General Hydro Europe's 3-part and a few additives too. Very good nutrient deal. Flexible and stable as hell in my case. (Great for both hydro and soil. I usually feed my moms with 3-part GHE nutes...)
-And nowadays I am experimenting with the full Advanced Nutrients 2+ program (I've already had 1gpw with just canna coco on slabs, and even a bit more with Canna Coco and some AN-additives on slabs, but now I like to try something whole new and semi-organic...) I am now in the last half of the fourth flowering week and I must admit I'm a little more impressed with AN than Canna. I have identical clones in 3,5L pots of Canna Coco. They get 2 different brands best nutrient regime at the same pH and EC, and are being fed/watered by hand at the same time. I know that this is nothing to depend upon as it is only a 1 on 1 test of Canna vs. AN, but I do it mostly to check if there's a difference in user qualities....besides, it is a great chance to break myself in on a new nutrient regime before uding it in my automated slab set-up.



Keep the grow going BC

PS! I'd love to say I'll switch to AN, but even if it produces better I may use Canna out of ease, availability, price (larger barrels available).
-i HAVE AD SOME TROUBLES WITH THE AN range and I'm sure it's more to bump into also. I've had products going bad too fast and gritty solutions, to name a few, so it's not very easy to relax with this 2+ system.

 

[redwood-roots]

I'm gonna have to go with Rosy on this one. I've never heard of "ram heads" either, but it sounds as if your coco is retaining water in which case I'd add about 30% perlite to improve the porosity and increase airflow.

 

[-VT-]

If I May....

If I May....

Agreed....SM-90 kills bacteria. However, there is no bacteria in Hygrozyme, so no major issue there IMO (using SM-90 in conjunction with Hygrozyme). I personally think using the two (SM-90 and Hygrozyme...or any other enzyme) simultaneously is superfluous.

Adding perlite is only beneficial if you're inconsistent with irrigation, or are enamored with overfert, that is, in my opinion and limited experience....(I'm new to gowing and new to coco) Coco/perlite retains MORE moisture than pure coco IME....I'm not convinced there is any metabolic benefit to cutting coco with perlite....as for all this talk about "indirect" overfert due to the higher CEC of coco and the wet/dry cycle....well....one could always feed less The key is not to overfert if taking a wet/dry approach IME (the E is for experience)

If anything, you might consider running your pH lower (regarding the Ca in the Cal/Mag+ and the Ca in your hard water). Ca will take up more "slots" in the coco....and if it builds up to toxic levels you could get a lockout. If the plants start getting deep green and droopy (leaves lose turgor), then you've burned 'em (which is not currently the issue, looking at your pics)... brown tips and brown margins is also sign of too much Cal/Mag.....

If you see twisting leaves you need more Cal/Mag (with your source water this is unlikely) Your plants look good from here, Butt Crack

One key to success with PBP and tap (well, one small key) is near-neutral-pH source water. I don't have meters (gonna get one soon hopefully, as it'd make things easier), but I know my tap water pH is near neutral (7.0) after filtering my tap water through a GAC filter....otherwise it's over 8....

With PBP I like irrigating once per day....this helps stimulate microbial activity and nutrient conversion :smile:

 

[20kw dreams]

I would have to disagree with you VT, in that a perlite mixture holds more water. It seems to me perlite mixes are much lighter. IME straight coco in pots can def be overwatered.

I would suggest you reduce or eliminate you Cal-Mag supplement. Your NPK is kind of out of whack using Cal-Mag at 5ml, when you are only running your PBP at 5ml. Too much N, Mg, and Ca causing some kind of mild prob, which will most likely get worse as time goes on. Especially with your alkaline water source, which already has Ca and Mg in it no doubt, as this is the cause for hard water.

Anyways, I would bump the PBP to 10ml, and reduce the Cal-Mag to 2-3ml.

EDIT: No, **** that, I would be running at 15mlPBP Grow + 5ml Cal-Mag easy.