Burma ('Myanmar') - Three killed as troops battle protesters (two monks among dead)

[Harry Gypsna]

intelligence has nothing to do with how you accomplish a task, it is more about what you`are capable of doing..... you can teach a monkey how to do something a certain way and you can teach 3 different monkeys the same way of doing it and all can do it the same, just they will learn at differing speeds.... Intelligence isnt learned its something you have in whatever degree nature blessed you with....
Plently of highly intelligent people in history im sure when there were no written languages, Grammar is not a sign of intelligence.
anyway im off, Ive got no problem with you fella so be lucky

 

[oldpink]

sgt I suggest you back off your soap box, I'm getting fed up with you hi jacking threads
any more and your in the cooler for a bit

OP

 

[GOT_BUD?]

sgt I suggest you back off your soap box, I'm getting fed up with you hi jacking threads
any more and your in the cooler for a bit

OP

I gotta agree man. You're letting it get out of hand. Just step away from the keyboard for a few days. Smoke some pot, have some sex, and come back with a better attitude before something bad happens. Like you getting banned for being a douchenozzle.

 

[Guest]

For having a difference in opinion? I will keep it to myself and keep truth where it belongs -- out of the history books if you'd like to continue the status quo. I've got this nasty case of intolerance for tyranny, and I am sorry if I get carried away sometimes. It is very difficult when you are personally attacked by a select group of people intolerant of views other than their own... If I'm wrong -- call me crazy, if you disagree, do so respectfully, and perhaps even indicate why you disagree and we can have a thoughtful discussion.

 

[nycdfan042]

^^ OP you gonna let this guy TRY you like that??? you gave him a wonderful opportunity to chill out and he steps up right to your face OP? you gonna let him do that? this guys basically sayin " i dont care about your second chance, im doing what i want when i want" and theres no consequence??? ive seen others get banned for farl ess..OP ice this fool

 

[Guest]

That was an apology...

In response to the post directly below me, I'd note that I stated that I was sorry for getting carried away, which I will acknowledge I do on occasion.

 

[nycdfan042]

^^ oh it didnt appear like one

 

[GOT_BUD?]

For having a difference in opinion? I will keep it to myself and keep truth where it belongs -- out of the history books if you'd like to continue the status quo. I've got this nasty case of intolerance for tyranny, and I am sorry if I get carried away sometimes. It is very difficult when you are personally attacked by a select group of people intolerant of views other than their own... If I'm wrong -- call me crazy, if you disagree, do so respectfully, and perhaps even indicate why you disagree and we can have a thoughtful discussion.

Even you have to realize you're getting carried away. I've looked in on several threads, and you just keep going on about how bad the US is. OK. We get it. You're mad at the US for their reprehensible foreign policy. Everyone knows it. You should also know that we will not be allowed to have thoughtful discussions involving politics because people get way too embroiled for their own good. You are proving that point beyond a shadow of a doubt, especially since you seem to be carrying this attitude into every thread. The Mods have stated very clearly that political threads are not going to be tolerated because of issues like this. And I for one am very surprised the Bush setting up for war with Iran thread has lasted as long as it has.

I respect your opinion, but jesus man, enough is enough.

 

[nycdfan042]

yeai myself want it closed down too and i made it..i made the thread to hear people viewpoints but its pretty loud and clear so we can delete it now...im sorry i made it...and i appologize dearly to the staff if it created any stress or problems..frrom now on im stickin to erb related stuff where i feel i have more experience. Talking about your political view or opinions on life is usually met with rudeness and harrassment so its basically futile... props to everyone seeing thru the BS tho...

 

[BadKarma]

Lip service was given to this at the U.N To bad thats probably all it will be is lip service. I have contacted my Government monkey about showing support for the monks. Dought it will do any good. Its a sad day in this world when you kill a monk. I hope they get the Karma they have asked for.

 

[Guest]

You have to admire those monks, the guy in front of the Chinese tank, etc. Those folks got nads the size of Alaska. Nothing but their beliefs and desires and they stand up to certain punishment, injury, torture or death. Wheither you believe in their cause or not, you got to admire them for their Lougrew balls.

 

[ngakpa]

come on people, just ignore sgt. if he is annoying you, that way the thread doesn't have to descend into inane bickering - it's not difficult

the reason I am posting this stuff is to draw attention in a few more peoples' minds to what is going on in Burma

I am not aware that the American government or agencies thereof played any part in installing the present military junta in Burma - nor indeed that the US has any role in maintaining its presence, or anything to gain whatsoever by doing so...

perhaps you could tell me how it could possibly be in the interests of the USA to prevent Burma becoming a democracy, (and thereby contributing to regional stability and a resumption of normal trade relations???)

Burma - An Introduction
http://www.burmacampaign.co.uk/aboutburma.html

Brief History of Burma
http://www.burmacampaign.co.uk/aboutburma/briefhistory.html



.......

BURMA: BRITISH AMBASSADOR COMMENTS ON SITUATION (26/09/07)

The British Ambassador in Rangoon, Mark Canning, commented on the situation in Burma, in an interview on BBC Radio 4 on Wednesday 26 September.

Interviewer:
Well Britain's Ambassador in Rangoon is Mark Canning and I spoke to him in the last hour about the demonstrations.

Mark Canning (British Ambassador in Rangoon):
Today has been an extraordinary day, a very emotional day. We've again had thousands of people marching, despite a very heavy security presence. The day opened with a show of force from the government. There were troops stationed around town and in certain areas. We had further arrests overnight. A curfew was put into effect and the question then was whether the demonstrators would be intimidated off the streets or if they would continue. And, despite tear gas being used against a number of the monks and a number of people being quite severely beaten, they have persisted in their demonstrations. They have marched in big columns throughout various areas of the city. At one point we had almost ten thousand of them outside this Embassy. There was a nucleus of monks and it is the monks that have led this from the outset; perhaps a thousand monks with probably eight or nine thousand civilians, many women, many students. They were entirely peaceful. They stopped, many of them, outside this Embassy and cheered. They were being followed by four military trucks but the military did not stop them marching. Clearly there's been some serious and disturbing violence today. As I said, monks were beaten. There were a number of volleys of gunshots above the heads of the demonstrators and reports of one dead but we haven't yet been able to confirm that. But the marchers have persisted, as I've said.

Interviewer:
Have you seen or heard the gunshot yourself?

Mark Canning:
I haven't myself but we've had several people out on the streets today and so we've been able to confirm what I told you. We've not been able to confirm the death of one person, no.

Interviewer:
But they've reported back that there are signs of the regime growing more violent in its opposition to the demonstrations?

Mark Canning:
Yes, well many people have been surprised at the last few days when the marchers have been allowed to go about their business. I mean obviously that's exactly what they should be allowed to do but today the government has clearly decided to show its steel and they have issued some fairly draconian warnings. We have obviously condemned the use of violence. The Foreign Secretary, the Prime Minister have both made statements today. We believe that the demonstrations have been disciplined, completely peaceful and that violence would only make matters worse. And our position is really that the government needs to take on board what these demonstrations are genuinely about. They're about deep, deep economic hardship and political frustration. This is not some foreign inspired plot. It's a consequence of the misery in which many of the people of this country have lived for so many years. So they need to sit down and argue with the opposition, with the ethnic minorities, and think about how these root causes can be healed.

Interviewer:
Is there any sign at all that the regime is willing to do that? I mean presumably you've been urging them to do these kind of things in the past?

Mark Canning:
Well what we're doing now is designed to build the pressure and to, we hope, make them come to a realisation. History has tended to show a lack of compromise as you know but we believe that in some respects what we're seeing now is the emergence of a different Burma. It's hard to believe what's happening on the streets when you contrast it with say three weeks ago when single individuals who were protesting against economic hardships were being scooped up and arrested and yet now a short while later you have all these thousands of people marching throughout the major cities, and it's not just this city. It's been happening in Mandalay and elsewhere.

Interviewer:
There had been an assumption that the regime would be unwilling to act against the Buddhist monks because they play such an important part in Burmese society and yet from what you've been describing - the use of teargas and possibly worse - there don't seem to be any qualms.

Mark Canning:
Well I mean you're quite right. These are revered and respected figures and the factor you just described perhaps explains why they have been slower to use violence than many people thought they might be but there is no doubt that the fundamental calculation on their part is national security, survival of the government, and ultimately they will put that ahead I think of doing violence to the monks.

Interviewer:
Aung San Suu Kyi was seen briefly earlier in the week greeting the demonstrators yet there are now reports that she may have been taken to prison. Have you heard anything?

Mark Canning:
We haven't had any confirmation of that. I mean all we have seen is her road, University Avenue, heavily cordoned off today. Well of course we're aware of those rumours but again we're not able to confirm them.

Interviewer:
Have you yourself had meetings with any people within the regime?

Mark Canning:
Well I travelled 500 miles yesterday up to the new capital called Nay Pyi Taw and met with ministers up there and made clear the sort of points that I've made to you, that violence is going to make things much, much worse and they need to think through what this is all about and address the underlying causes that are forcing people - and the word is forcing because people have their backs to the wall economically - it's forcing them out onto the streets.

Interviewer:
You've been describing what's been happening in terms of the demonstrations today. What are your fears for what might happen next?

Mark Canning:
Well the fear of course is that the government will look at what's happened today and will assess that the measures that they took today to station troops and use tear gas and to arrest a few of the ringleaders have not been sufficient to choke off the enthusiasm and the commitment of the people that are marching on the streets. So the fear of course is that they make a calculation that something additional is needed to intimidate people away from what they're doing.

 

[ngakpa]

Myanmar junta raids monasteries
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070927/tpl-uk-myanmar-43a8d4f_3.html


As Burmese troops open fire at monks, China and Russia block global sanctions

http://www.guardian.co.uk/burma/story/0,,2177868,00.html

Julian Borger in New York, Ian MacKinnon in Bangkok, Ian Black
Thursday September 27, 2007
The Guardian

Burma's military rulers were facing calls from around the world last night to show restraint in their treatment of pro-democracy demonstrators, but China and Russia blocked more punitive measures.

After troops in Rangoon opened fire on monks and their supporters on the bloodiest day of the week-long protests, the UN security council held an emergency session to consider a joint call for sanctions from the US and the European Union.

George Bush announced new sanctions on Tuesday and European ministers said they would consider toughening the existing package of EU sanctions, as Gordon Brown had demanded.

But any suggestion of global sanctions against the Burmese regime was blocked by China and Russia, who had tried to halt last night's council meeting.

Ultimately they agreed to a watered-down security council press statement expressing "concern" and urging "restraint especially from the government". A UN special envoy, Ibrahim Gambari, left New York for Burma last night without knowing whether he would be allowed entry by the government. The security council statement, drafted by British officials, called for the Nigerian diplomat to be admitted "as soon as possible".

The British ambassador to the UN, John Sawers, warned the junta that "the age of impunity is dead and people will be held accountable for their actions they take" a reference to potential prosecutions for crimes against humanity.

China and Russia, who have long defended the Burmese regime in the UN, made it clear they would resist any deeper UN involvement, on the grounds that it would represent interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign country.

"Sanctions are not helpful in the situation there," China's UN representative, Wang Guangya, said, who called the situation "complicated". "As far as China sees it ... there are some problems, but these problems at the moment do not constitute a threat to international and regional peace and security."

In Rangoon, the tension was palpable as troops filled the streets and ringed pagodas that had served as gathering points. According to local reports at least two monks and a civilian were killed, although authorities only confirmed one death.

Governments are desperate to avoid a repeat of the Burmese bloodshed of 1988, when 3,000 students and monks died in a pro-democracy uprising. "We call on the authorities to stop violence and to open a process of dialogue with pro-democracy leaders, including Aung San Suu Kyi, and representatives of ethnic minorities," said a US-EU statement at the UN.

The EU's Portuguese presidency warned that the junta faced tougher sanctions "should they resort to using violence against unarmed and peaceful demonstrators". Existing EU measures include a travel ban on Burma's leaders, an arms embargo and a ban on military cooperation, but no economic sanctions.

Diplomats and analysts said China's role was crucial since it - along with Russia - recently vetoed a security council resolution condemning Burma. China is Burma's biggest economic partner and supplier of defence equipment. Burmese oil and gas are vital for China's economy. Burma is a vital market for goods from China's Yunnan province.

Alexander Downer, Australia's foreign minister, said: "I think economic sanctions as such would have absolutely no impact, except perhaps on the living standards of a number of ordinary Burmese, although we have virtually no, or minuscule, trade with Burma. China is the country that at least has the potential to have the most leverage over the regime there."

The crisis brought demands for action. "The military government in Burma must be told in no uncertain terms that there will be dire costs if they repeat the violent repression as in 1988," said Amnesty International. "China, as a permanent member of the UN security council and as a government with political influence over Burma, has a critical role to play, and so do Asean [the Association of South-east Asian Nations], Japan and India."

Last night the monks pledged to intensify their action. "If they won't engage in dialogue we will increase the momentum of our protests," said a spokesman. "We have 10,000 monks and 50,000 laymen ready to march."

 

[nycdfan042]

simply unbelieveable.....i fear the worst is yet to come....how can you hurt a monk..or drop tear gas ona monk...i meani can understand if youe hurling rocks..or molotov cocktails....but dayum ....reading this makes it hard to try and have a positive perspective or appeal a optimistic view for successes or opportunity....

 

[ngakpa]

raids on monasteries continue throughout Burma
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070927/tts-uk-myanmar-ca02f96_2.html

bear in mind, the hundreds of monks who have now been arrested will no doubt be subjected to appalling abuse and torture, for which the junta is well-known

http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/aboutburma/humanrights.html

 

[ngakpa]

Demonstrate in solidarity with the Burmese people

The Burmese Community in London are holding a demonstration outside the Burmese Embassy in London every day from 12-1pm.
Please show your support if you can.

Embassy of the Union of Myanmar
19 A CHARLES STREET
LONDON W1J 5DX

Nearest tube: Green Park

For campaigns and actions in other countries, please check here:
http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/links.html

 

[DogBoy]

Lets hope Gordon Brown is elsewhere then. God forbid our UK politicians get involved.

I find myself astounded that this is even being continued after pretty much the whole world came out in support for the protesters. I believe the armed forces were, this morning, blockading the monks in their temples to keep them from generating any more support. I hope the silver lining to this is no more monks are brutalised but cant help feeling sorry for the effective house arrest.

Please continue with the updates. It's great to see the galvanising effect on our community. for once we seem to be all supporting the same thing.

 

[buzzy]

Yo sgt.stedanko, you need to chill. I agree with ya views mate, but just be more chilled...

Or go to cannabis.com, they'll love you there...

 

[Chamba]

when are the majority of posters in this thread going to learn to ignore posts that they disagree with?

actually there's nothing wrong with a slightly off topic rant or tangent...that's what stoner's do...but if you have the thread's direction on your mind then do yourself, your reputation and the thread a favour by ...

1) don't kill the messenger, debate the message ..if that's too hard then..try a bit of satire...

or

2) ignore posts you disagree with or take offence at


and the thread will be better for it

...after visiting Paris do you tell everyone about the dog shit on the sidewalks or the rude waiters ..or do you tell them about the sights you saw at the Louvre..the great wine you drank..the Eiffel tower etc?

this way the thread continues on it's course.......otherwise it becomes the way it is......a negative, dog shitted sidewalk

try to ignore comments you disagree with ..if not choose your words carefully

I suggest everyone go back and edit out any negative sentences ...then you will see the difference.

you have a choice...take the HIGH road or the dog shitted road

anyway I would hardly blame the USA for today's problems in Myanmar...blame the money and power hungry army generals who run the country supported by countries like China and especially Singapore....

there's nothing worse than people who blame the US for ALL the world's problems..well, there is...the ones who take offence at the slightest hint that the Land of the Free could be in any way guilty of doing anything wrong and rush in to depend with blind nationistic fervor ...lol

the fact is the US is the Alpha dog at this moment in time....as bad as they are, can you imagine any other country being a better choice....Russia?....China?....a coalition of hardline Muslim countries?....etc etc..sheesh...I shudder at the other choices

 

[BadKarma]

More deaths today. Being x military the thought of killing a monk protesting turns my stomach.