Bulb/ballast forensics - any help?

[whythefnot]

I have 2 400w digital ballasts and bulbs that were donated to me about a year and a half ago. I had never used them until recently, and I don't think they had been used very heavily before I got them but I don't have any hard info on that. One has been running for almost 2 months without a problem, and is still working fine. The other ballast/bulb had been running for about 2 weeks when I decided to take their light cycle down a few hours in preparation for flowering starting later this week.

The lesser-used ballast (a 'welthink,' about the most generic brand you can get) never turned back on. I opened the ballast to look for any sign of a short, and found nothing. No black marks, no smell.

Here's where things get a little confusing for me. When I swapped the bulbs, neither lamp would ignite! I check all the power cords and even swapped out the socket on the ballast in question, no luck. The ballast doesn't warm up or make any noise when it's plugged in, other than a very light crackling sound one time as it's being plugged in (normal for a device with power flowing through it).

So it would seem that both my ballast and my bulb are dead. The bulb itself looks to be in great condition, and it couldn't have more than about 6 months of wear on it. I'll admit, it was probably time for a replacement but I'm cutting whatever corners I can just to get this grow off the ground.

I don't have a multimeter but I'm not above buying one. It seems like I need them all the damn time these days.

I'd just like a second or fifth opinion before I start shelling out money for both a replacement ballast and a bulb.

 

[amanda88]

Take the ballast to a repair shop,

theres not much in a ballast that the average Joe can do

just ensure theres no oil leakage out of the capacitor

often the fault lies in the input circuit

good luck

 

[whythefnot]

Take the ballast to a repair shop,
just ensure theres no oil leakage out of the capacitor

I didn't think digital ballasts had oil-filled capacitors, but I'm probably wrong about that.

good luck

Thanks, I'll probably just order one of those $40 mag kits. I've never had a single problem with them in the past.

 

[Jhhnn]

From your description, you've done the right things to determine that you have 1 good ballast & 1 good lamp. That's it.

Like a lot of other consumer grade electronics, digital grow light ballasts are basically disposable, not built to be repaired. It may have an internal fuse but they're often soldered to the board. Even then, it may just blow a new fuse.

FYI, Old school magnetic ballasts have the same guts as commercial luminaires and are often repairable with a little savvy & a few tools. They only have 3 parts.

 

[whythefnot]

FYI, Old school magnetic ballasts have the same guts as commercial luminaires and are often repairable with a little savvy & a few tools. They only have 3 parts.

I've repaired a half dozen or so magnetic ballasts of all sizes over the last 10 years, as well as building a few from kits. I had never used a digital ballast before (never saw the point), but these two were gifted to me from a novice grower in a non-med state who decided it wasn't worth the risk anymore. When I moved across the country, I had to sell all my big stuff, but I kept these 400's for getting a small room going later.

It's frustrating that it didn't even make it til the first day of flower, but it was free. So no big loss.


It just seems very, very suspicious that they would both blow at the same time. Since I made the original post, I remembered that when I set up the first ballast (the one that is still working) the bulb in question didn't work with it, but it worked fine with the ballast that's now broken. So there is still a chance the bulb is good, but I should probably replace it anyway.

Well, shoot. Thanks guys.

 

[Jhhnn]

I've repaired a half dozen or so magnetic ballasts of all sizes over the last 10 years, as well as building a few from kits. I had never used a digital ballast before (never saw the point), but these two were gifted to me from a novice grower in a non-med state who decided it wasn't worth the risk anymore. When I moved across the country, I had to sell all my big stuff, but I kept these 400's for getting a small room going later.

It's frustrating that it didn't even make it til the first day of flower, but it was free. So no big loss.


It just seems very, very suspicious that they would both blow at the same time. Since I made the original post, I remembered that when I set up the first ballast (the one that is still working) the bulb in question didn't work with it, but it worked fine with the ballast that's now broken. So there is still a chance the bulb is good, but I should probably replace it anyway.

Well, shoot. Thanks guys.

End of life cycling w/ HPS lamps can be hard on ballasts-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-vapor_lamp#End_of_life

Lamps are cheap. In your situation, I'd buy 2.

 

[whythefnot]

I think I'm gonna buy 3, and two more mag ballasts. Money was real tight last month but another windfall came through, so I'm using it to hook up my grow. Right now I'm just trying to decide if the third is gonna be a 400 or 600. Probably gonna shoot for the 600, since this shipping time is going to let my plants grow even bigger before I flower them. Building new rooms is always so exciting!

 

[RustyShcklfrd]

No chance your timer is effing with you? Did you take that out of the equation?

 

[whythefnot]

No chance your timer is effing with you? Did you take that out of the equation?

Oh yeah, I plugged directly into the outlet, reset the gfci, everything you can think of.

I decided on just getting 2 more 400w. From experience I've learned that things are just easier when all your lamps are the same size.

 

[moses wellfleet]

What brand bulbs are they, a while back some bulbs did not give consistent results with digital ballasts although they worked fine in mag ballasts?

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh yeah, I plugged directly into the outlet, reset the gfci, everything you can think of.

I decided on just getting 2 more 400w. From experience I've learned that things are just easier when all your lamps are the same size.

Makes sense to me. If it all works as planned, you might want to take a look at the 315w CDM systems down the road. Pricey, but pure dynamite for small growers. I shit you not. I replaced a 1000w system w/ 630w of CDM & couldn't be more pleased.

 

[whythefnot]

Makes sense to me. If it all works as planned, you might want to take a look at the 315w CDM systems down the road. Pricey, but pure dynamite for small growers. I shit you not. I replaced a 1000w system w/ 630w of CDM & couldn't be more pleased.

Nice. I was really looking at them, and I probably spent at least 12 hours shopping and trying to piece together a vertical system for a reasonable price but I can't shell out that kind of cash right now. I'll run through these bulbs and then think about upgrading once I can afford it. Thanks.

 

[whythefnot]

What brand bulbs are they, a while back some bulbs did not give consistent results with digital ballasts although they worked fine in mag ballasts?

I have no way of knowing at this point. They were given to me in a cardboard box that says 'HPS Bulbs' in sharpie lol. All the rest of the equipment was el-cheapo so I'd assume it's like an Apollo or some other super-low-price brand (doesn't look exactly like Apollo tho). I can post close-ups of the bulb if anyone cares to see it, but I think I've gotten the answer I was looking for. First mag ballast will be here on thursday, then bulbs will arrive shortly afterward. Thanks, guys.

 

[whythefnot]

It was the ballast. I got a replacement mag kit in the mail today, wired her up and the bulb in question not only works, but burns brighter than it did with the digi (from my perspective, anyway) and is noticeably brighter than the existing bulb. Glad I bought a few more.

 

[aridbud]

There are two types of capacitors used in HID ballasts: wet and dry capacitors. Wet capacitors or oil filled capacitors can be found on some of the older, lower wattage ballasts but, due to the superior performance of dry capacitors, have become virtually obsolete in the horticultural industry.

 

[whythefnot]

There are two types of capacitors used in HID ballasts: wet and dry capacitors. Wet capacitors or oil filled capacitors can be found on some of the older, lower wattage ballasts but, due to the superior performance of dry capacitors, have become virtually obsolete in the horticultural industry.

So, just to be clear, digital ballasts also use capacitors the way magnetic ballasts do, and they are both made similarly?

 

[whythefnot]

I tried the 'broken' ballast with the new bulbs today -- fired right up. So instead of having a broken ballast and a broken bulb, I have a working ballast and a working bulb. Go figure.

 

[whythefnot]

Actually, since I ordered 2 more ballasts and 3 new bulbs, I now have 4 working ballasts and 5 working bulbs. WTF?

 

[yocs]

sorry op, I can't help you much on your problem. But I just wanted to air my recent ballast situation.... These new cheapo digi ballast are definitely not made to be repaired. I recently bought a 400 watt kit (mh, hps, timer, hangers, ballast, and hood). It worked for two weeks when it just stopped. I changed the fuse and it blew it immediately. So I called the company who put me on hold for a tech who didn't say anything other than " sorry I'm sending replacement". I was like cool, ima try n get this thing working again so Il have a back up. Upon open the ballast I was shocked to find it was encased in hard wax or plastic. Like they just poured melted plastic on it and let it harden before they closed the ballast box. Anyway long story short theres no way this thing would ever be able to be worked on.

 

[Jhhnn]

sorry op, I can't help you much on your problem. But I just wanted to air my recent ballast situation.... These new cheapo digi ballast are definitely not made to be repaired. I recently bought a 400 watt kit (mh, hps, timer, hangers, ballast, and hood). It worked for two weeks when it just stopped. I changed the fuse and it blew it immediately. So I called the company who put me on hold for a tech who didn't say anything other than " sorry I'm sending replacement". I was like cool, ima try n get this thing working again so Il have a back up. Upon open the ballast I was shocked to find it was encased in hard wax or plastic. Like they just poured melted plastic on it and let it harden before they closed the ballast box. Anyway long story short theres no way this thing would ever be able to be worked on.

Yep. Dunno why, but electronics guys call it potting compound. It stabilizes components on the circuit board(s) & helps carry heat to the case to be dissipated.

Even w/o that, a lot of electronic boards are robot assembled using surface mount devices that are extremely tiny & hard to work with in a repair situation. It's not like electronic ballast makers publish schematics or troubleshooting guides for techs, either.

I highly recommend Best Buy as a place to recycle any sort of electronic doodad absolutely at no charge. Their policy is great in that regard.