bud growth very sparse

[jcdem]

so i'm about a month into flower and most of my buds are looking decent but some of the newer growth is looking very retarded... i haven't changed any of my procedures but i did think they might have been getting too hot, but now even branches that are farther away from the light are experiencing the same problem.

for what it's worth i'm using a blend of ocean forest, black gold, and light warrior, with down to earth 4-8-4 that i added once i switched them over to flower. i water when the soil is dry down a few inches or the plant starts to droop, which ends up being every couple of days. the temps are not very high as my room temp stays around 65 and i have about 100cfm of circulating air and a 150w hps. these plants were all started from bag seed.






here you can see the rest of the buds look alright, don't they? actually it's a little hard to tell in the pictures, but they look much more normal, but still a little thin.

 

[stinkyattic]

Heat stress, insufficient pot size, and N overdose are possible contributors, but there would be other symptoms too if that was it- upturned leaf edges on the tops closest the light, odd lockout symptoms on the low leaves indicating soil chemistry was going bad due to not enough medium, etc....

But more likely is that you have a light leak that you did not previously catch. Those plants look re-veggy to me, with their long, thin, barely-serrated upper leaves.

Also, 65 degrees is on the cold side, even for 'night'. But that's your room... what's the actual high/low IN the flower chamber, right at the canopy?

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, I agree with stinky on this one,,,, we need more information so we can help you fix your problem.......



ARE YOU USING?

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?


HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics

How long has this problem been going on?
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...)
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How tall are the plants?
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using?
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.)
What is the Water temperature?
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy?
What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple?
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?
What is the pH of the "Tank"?
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment?
When was your last watering?
What is your water temps?
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)?
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?
Are plant's infected with pest's

 

[jcdem]

SOIL:

How long has this problem been going on?
about 2-4 weeks, whenever the buds began to develop. the lights were switched to 12/12 on march 22.

What STRAIN are you growing?
bag seed, some from local weed, others i brought back from belize.

What was the establishing technique?
from seed

What is the age of your plants?
planted on jan 22, so almost four months now.

How Tall are the plants?
12-20" but they have been tied down and around because i'm limited on space

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
late flower

What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
i believe it's called lst (pulled and tied over with bread ties)

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
one plant per pot, 8x8x8"

What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
about even mixture of ocean forest, black gold, light warrior.

What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
added down to earth dry 4-8-4 fert when i transplanted into the current pots and switched to 12/12. not sure how much i added, maybe 1/4 cup into each pot. plants seemed to love it because they quickly turned greener and had a growth spurt.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
no clue, never measured

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
no clue, never measured

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
n/a

How often are you watering?
when the soil is dry, which is about every 3-4 days.

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
only added the dry fert when i transplanted for flower.
What size bulb are you using?
150w hps.

What is the distance to the canopy?
no less than about 4" from the bulb (fans are right behind the bulb so it stays pretty cool in there.

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
never measured, but i live in a fairly humid area.

What is the canopy temperature?
never measured, but since room temp is 65 i would say between 75-85

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
not sure

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
100-175cfm

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
fans are right around canopy height, see pics.

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
no, i let it get pretty dried out.

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
hard.

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
tap water, filtered through a pur/brita carbon filter.

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
i prune some of the lower leaves from time to time. just snipped off some of the severely retarded growth because it wasn't going to become anything.

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
nope, and everything's been organic.

Are plant's infected with pest's?
there are a few tiny flies or gnats, but they appear to do no harm.

 

[jcdem]

today i had to trim a few of the buds off because they seem to be done and are drying out on the plant! i'm not sure what the hell is going on here because everything started out so well and now i'm getting all kinds of retarded growth and buds maturing mcuh faster than others.

i've also recently trimmed many leaves and tiny bud growth from the bottom parts of the plants because some of the upper parts are getting so dense i'm starting to worry about rot. i get pretty good airflow though, and hopefully this will improve it while focusing the plant on the larger growth on top.

the buds i picked are sparse and tiny, but i figured if i didn't get them off now they would go bad? not sure how that works, but most of the hairs are clearly orange, though it may not show in the pictures.



this plant is also turning hermie because i noticed what i thought was a ball and when i picked it off out came a premature seed. what the fuck, is that due to stress? not even all of the buds on the plant are doing that and in fact there are a couple other buds on that plant that are some of the best looking.














i don't think the hairs on this one are really that orange. it's probably just the hps light overpowering my camera's flash. i'm going to take another look once the lights go out though. however the leaves actually seem to be drying out or dying, no?

 

[stinkyattic]

What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
added down to earth dry 4-8-4 fert when i transplanted into the current pots and switched to 12/12. not sure how much i added, maybe 1/4 cup into each pot. plants seemed to love it because they quickly turned greener and had a growth spurt.
.

There's one big red flag. You want to WITHHOLD Nitrogen in flower, rather than administer a big wallop right at inception. Those plants do show some classic symptoms of N overdose. I'm not sure what the composition of that dry fert is, as in how fast the nutes are released etc., but when you say you don't know how much you added that's worrisome too. Did you follow the instructions on the package? And what is the target crop that it is intended for?

 

[spyvsspy]

I'm with stinky- the 2nd, 3rd and 4th picture down look like big time N overdose. Crazy claw action. Also, not knowing your pH and how much fert you added isn't good either. A couple years back I had a plant that I accidentally added WAY too much N at the beginning and didn't mess with the ph- kind of an experiment and it looked a lot like your pictures........... just food for thought

 

[MynameStitch]

Time to flush out your plants with a lot of water dude...... how big of pots are you using?

 

[jcdem]

damn! i was loosely following the thread in the organic soil growers forum for moonshine mix, which i thought was a very easy to maintain mix because the pH is supposedly very stable and you don't have to use much fert. i added the dry fert according to directions, ~1/4 cup per pot, which doesn't seem like much in pots this large (as i said, 8x8x8"). it's supposed to be fert for flowering anyway (very similar to what the guys in the moonshine mix thread were using), and i haven't added any since the one time right when i upgraded to these large pots and switched to flower. all i have added since they've been flowering is use filtered water.

what i don't get is why some buds look alright, while others are completely fucked, even on the same plant.

if i flush out with water what exactly is the process? and will it help now, this late in the grow?

 

[VDRIP]

looks like to me its the lights to far away
i have some that are like that not enough light <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[jcdem]

looks like to me its the lights to far away
i have some that are like that not enough light <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

the light is so close at times that i have noticed it burning leaves. i'm also cramped for space so i try to get all of the buds as close as reasonably possible.

i don't think light leaks are the problem because the box is tucked away in my closet and i have checked for leaks before.

 

[stealthballer]

not going to get into all the other things, but red hairs do no indicate ripeness.


you need to listen to the people that told you to flush the soil do it right now, don't think about it for a few days go do it now.

 

[SmokeyPufmaster]

Over fert, Plus they look like an equatorial sativa. Those strains don't always do well indoors, with hps lights. Cool temps also for a sativa.

 

[stealthballer]

some of those pics look like a reveg plant

 

[snottyp]

man those girls are just too damn close to that light. look at them they are twining and curling and drooping. its probably gets wicked hot in there. move that thing farther away and or get some wind kicken through there asap. and dont wait till they droop to water them!!! thats called stress. just make sure the soil is moist. you dont need to let it dry out and than hammer it with water. remember heat and drought stressed plants are very vulnerable to water stress. it looks like shes a thin leaved girly girl by nature, but man shit should not be drooping and twisting like that. if you want more fruit on her in the future, work on getting a sick root system first

 

[jcdem]

ok so i'll give flushing a try. will this be just like flushing normal plants at the end of their flower cycle?

 

[jcdem]

Over fert, Plus they look like an equatorial sativa. Those strains don't always do well indoors, with hps lights. Cool temps also for a sativa.

the seeds did come from belize

hmm this might also explain why i feel like the plants looked better when i was first vegging them under CFLs.

 

[stinkyattic]

In my experience, pure sativas have fed at a lighter rate than indis and hybrids in my garden. Combined with the 'hot' soil and the dry fertilizer addition, to me, that confirms a serious overfert.
Excess N and light leaks both cause the plant to make single-bladed 'stress leaves' in flower, because they signal 'GROW' not 'FLOWER ALREADY DAMMIT!'.

 

[asdfqwerty420]

the seeds did come from belize

I think maybe your light cycle is not accommodating these foreign chicks. You should have given them more dark hours (11/13) That could explain the reveg. Go read that bigass sativa thread and tell me what you think.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=36181&highlight=ultimate+sativa