bubble bucket problem , stich ??????

[GreenBowlsmoker]

ok i am useing 5 gal buckets with air stone's . i first filled and added 3-2-1 of general hydroponics solution per every gallon of water . ph was arounf 6.2.
plants took off and looked great , sence then when the water gets low i take a gallon of water and add 3-2-1 , to the gallon and feed all 4 plants with the same gallon . i am noticing yellow spots that just start in the middle of the plant on several branches . also some of the top leaves are curling inward alot , kinda cupping . also the leaves look a bit washe dout or something i will try to add pics. thanks for any help
oh and also .

1. i am doing my first grow . so dont bash me to hard please ( trying to learn )

2. at the moment i cant afford to go get the ph testers and ppm tester, when i did the buckets i thought i would have planty then work slower down. so again i will get them asap, and i know the importance of them.








What STRAIN are you growing? / the church ( fem )

What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) / seed

What is the age of your plants?/ 27 days old

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants
in? / veg

What Technique are you using? bubble bucket ( 5 gal with airstone )

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) cley pepples

What is the Water temperature?/ not sure will check tonight

What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? / G. H. P ( 3-2-1 ) tsp per gal

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using?, not sure

What is the pH of the "Tank"? 6.8 using a ph test solution , i dont thing it is right on cause it goes by color and my res water is not clear .

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? n/a

When was your last watering? added a gal between all 4 plants

When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)

What size bulb are you using? 400 hps

What is the distance to the canopy?/ 2 1/2 feet

What is your RH Factor? 49 %

What is the canopy temperature? 82 ,deg ( f )

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) 74 - 84 deg (f)

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) a 100 cfm 4 " for the grow room with a 4 " multi elbow intake at bottom of room , then another 100 cfm 4" sucking thru a cool tube , and also a 4 " intake comeing from the cooler attic

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? / a small rotating fan on med just barley moving the stems around

Is your water HARD or SOFT? hard 7.8

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched / nope

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? / nope

Are plant's infected with pest's/ nope


this is the plant that is washed out and curling .

this is a shot of the ( washout looking ) leaves

this is a nice fatty ,that is starting to show yellow spots .

this is a shot of the above plant ,

and this is a pic of one that seams to be doing fine .

 

[jekyllandhyde]

top off with water not nutrients...do you have a tds pen? you want your ph at 5.9-6.0 in veg...6.8 is way to high

 

[MynameStitch]

Jekyll is right, your ph is off.

ALso your canopy temps seem to be bothering a few of the plants, see the first 2 pics how the leaves are curling upwards? That is from raidant heat, dry heat causing the leaves to curl upwards.... You either move the light up a bit or try to get your temps stable and keep it under 80.

The 3rd pic looks like either you dropped water with nutrients on it, or it's bleached a bit....

Are you using a thermometer to test the temps?

Your better off using pH meter or strips rather than the ph liquid test kit.... You can't use nutrients to top off it to control the pH either, you will have to get pH up and down for that....

when water goes out of the bucket when the plants remove it, adding more nutrients when you do not know how much they took out can lead to burning them, which is why it's important to get a TDS pen, which you already know the importance....

Adding water and just a little amount of nutrients is reccomnded when they suck the water dry.... add pH adjusters to adjust the ph, your pH needs to be 5.5 to 6.3....

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

wow , never in my wildest dreams did i think i would get a response that quick, i mean damn guys and gals you guys rock . i will get a test pen asap , can you recommend one that works well and is on the lower budget level.

also it might be very well me dropping nutes on the leaves .


ok so dont top off with more water with nutes in it . just plain water . so just for my learning benefit . the first time when i did the (3-2-1 ) x 5 ( 5 gal buckets ) , that was enough nutes for how long ???
again thanks guys , that still blows my mind how fast that was .

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

if u look at the last pic the top left and bottom right leafs have that wierd scaring thats in the second pic...

stich is right about the temps. seams just a tad uncomfortable to them, although the plants look faaaaaanntastic to me.

i use the solution ph for testing. i usualy shoot for a piss-orange when in hydro.

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

lol , as i sat here i realalized you answered that already , i wont know that in till i get a test pen .

hummm, ok plain water for now . i was figuring that as they sucked up the water they took the nut's with it , thus replace it with the same,

 

[MynameStitch]

No, you can add some more nutrients, but the reaosn why I said do not add to much, you do not know how much they are taking out of the water when you need to top it off, thus I do not want you to burn them, but I also do not want them to be underfed either, so it's hard to tell without a TDS pen, so what I would do when you top it off with water..., I would had 1/2 teaspoon per gallon to start out with, that way you will know if it's to much or to little, you are going to have to find out the hard way without a TDS pen..... much better to under fed them than over fed them.

If you just use plain water your PPMS will drop and they will end up being under fed.....
Hanna, oakton, they all pretty much make good pH pens..... and TDS meters...I would not get a combo cause if one goes out your shit out of luck, better to buy TDS and pH pen separate. You do not need something expensive, just something that will be accurate and will work for some time

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

awesome, thanks everyone, and stitch your ) complete guide to sick plants has been a great tool when one wants to learn , i have spent hrs reading it and would like to say THANK YOU .

here are a few more shot , do you think they are ready for topping ?? i plan on only veging for a month may be a bit more, box is 28'" deep, 52 " wide, and 72 " high , so i dont want them to stretch to much , also i am running them 24 straight no night cycle , should i give them some rest ??

 

[MynameStitch]

I would honestly change that lighting cycle, my grows consisted of trying to mimic the outdoors as much as possible, and weaning the light cycle down as if the seasons changed worked very well for me.

I also got a question, have you changed out the nutrients in that bucket lately?

Also did you mist your plants, or drop some water with nutrients on those lower leaves that you know of?

if you are only going to veg them for a month, go ahead and top them, but wait 1 to 1/2 more weeks before putting them into flower if you are going to top. I would not throw her in flowering right when you top her..... you don't want them to try to heal the cut and switch over to bloom at the same time.

If you have not changed out the water in your buckets I suggest you do so now and replace with clean nutrients. LEFt over salts will sit in the bucket everytime they remove nutrients from the water, when this happens it's like there "waste" the stuff they do not use and buildup causes problems.

I would recommend changing out the res/bucket water every 2 weeks max.

A TDS/pH pen is most defiantly needed if you wanna stay hydro; sooner or later you will run into problems, you are very lucky you are not having more issues

Thank you, I am very glad ya like it! Tanks very much for the compliment

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

i haven't changed the bucket water at all, just refill them when they get low.

so i can get salt build up huh, ok ill make a special note of that , also i am change out all 4 buckets and adding new nutes ,.


also i do mist the plants about 3 times a day , but with plain water, but it is very likely that when i was adding more ( water and nutes ) that the where spilled onto the leaves.

also i toped them and removed some of the big fan leaves , thus to give more direct light to the innards of the plant , i will add pictures later.

i am going to then imma be changing some water and nutes, and then every two weeks after that they will get a change out . i will take some pic of my baby's after i topped them .

 

[MynameStitch]

You were better off moving the fan leaves than removing them at this age... those leaves act as a storage for there food and when you remove them you take away stored nutrients..... paper clips work good to keep fan leaves out of the way......

It does look like thos white spots on the lower leaves, looks like you got nutrients/water spilled on them.
The round dots help give it away too.

I would stop misting your plants; they do not need it now. I find misting your plants when they are in hydro a big waste of time; hydro works so much quicker than soil and the nutrients are more available to the plant quicker in hydro than soil; so misting/foliar feeding works better in soil imo.

Your plants are too big to be misting anyways.

 

[SensiMilla024]

Your gonna need that Ph meter real soon. . . .tds you can deal without for now.

Looks like your doing well blind tho.

anyways. . . .i've spent money on PH meters, alot. It's a waste to spend

100 bucks on something you use maybe a total of 30 seconds a day.

Here is one that I am using now . . . .the pen is cheaper than most replacement

electrodes and it works GREAT!!

If you goto your local phish store I'm sure you can find these cheaper.

http://www.petsolutions.com/default.aspx?ItemId=10600160&EID=10600160&SID=FROOGLE

It's also wise to get the calibration solution. . . .i believe that Pen is a one-point calibration

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

ok well i went to take a smoke break , and fell asleep , lol
so i will be changeing water tomorrow .

also yea stitch , when i take the plants out of there buckets for photos , i let the roots drip dry a bit then move the hole lid of bucket to another bucket ( no water ) and then i can take good pics. so between puring thru the rocks to feed them and carrying dripping plants over top , im sure it is just as you said.

and SensiMilla024, thanks man thats awesome price , i called the local hydro store . and wow . and hummm they want 3x's that amount for a ph pen .
so this is a great price for my low budget . thanks bro , and your church is looking great . my friend is also doing ( church ) we have started saying to one another ( let us prey ) .

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

ok , i waited a day ater topping them and then i tyed a few branches down ward and to day they have taken a new shape . also yesterday i changed and refilled with new nutes , got some ph down and im right at 6.0 , some some ph test strips to hold me over . also wile changeing the water i washed out and rubbed everything clean inside of bucket, ( washed with water only) , and it was pritty clean , all tho i could see when there water line was and it was in fact a bit salty looking . good call stich .

so yesterday was a good day for the room . plants look like they are loveing me for it . i will post some pics of how i tyed the bigger branches down tomorrow . but for now here are some of the plants that got toped

 

[HeadyPete]

Hey Green Bowl, I think your plants look real good. once you correct the few minor issues, you will be golden.

I think I've seen that scarring on my OB1 mom and clones, seems to happen after you clone and I think it is a result of the lack of roots at the beginning, leading to that leaf fading pattern. Later upper growth looks good, like my plants did, so I wouldn't stress about it. Thrip damage can look kinda like that too. Thrips are tiny mobile little creatures that can and will run fast when you try to find them. look for tiny whitish yellow little guys like a tiny piece of rice, and they will move when you disturb them. If you have thrips (i don't think you do), Spinosad is the cure. Organic, fast and safe to 1 day before harvest. PM me if you need more thrip info.

I have the Milwaukee PH40 - $70 and it works great. Not sure about that pen you were recommended, but it is probably fine. Remember, you get what you pay for and an inaccurate pen is no help at all.

When the plants take up water, they use some nutes but not all. what is left becomes unbalanced which is why you must change rez and nutes and re balance every two weeks or so. You will learn how much to top up with in between changes - depends on how much your plants used and this is where the TDS pen comes in handy.

Ya know I think your plants could use a little more fert in the water. There is no tipburn on your leaf tips, which tells me you can increase ferts a little. You want a couple millimeters of crispy burn on the leaf tips to indicate optimum amount of nutes (for this phase of growth - different phases require different amounts)

Good luck

 

[MynameStitch]

There ya go man; that's how ya tie them down right

Petey explained it very well and gave some solid advice there.
Dude you are doing very well for going blind..... seriously it's rare we see peeps who grow with out TDS meters and there plants are as good looking as yours.

See how much of a difference a few days make when you are in hydro and you fix the problem? Soil takes about a week before issues show and issues to be fixed, depending on the severity... nutrient burn can happen in a day or 2 though if ya fed them a lot.

Hydro rocks!

 

[GreenBowlsmoker]

pete ,
thanks alot , but how much more should i add ?
all i use is general hydroponics , and i use 3-2-1 x 4 . its a 5 gal bucket but not filled all the way .

#1. so should i just use more and ( if so how much more ) of what i have or is there something that is recommended that i should use as well ???

also on that note , the second time i fed them i was , and used a tbsp and not a tsp, noticed after i did the first plant , so it was the only one that got over nuted and its the best looking plant i have ( the bushy one ) , i call it blooming onion . lol pic below

#2 . is it to early to start tyeing down my plants ??? i tyed a few down and was advised to not start tyeing them down this early on . and to wait till there about a foot tall then put a ( string checkerboard ) about a foot above the buckets , and let them grow thru it , then once there thru the screen a good little bity, you then cut all the taller branches where it makes the canopy even . does this sound about right ,

#3 . also i am wondering about something , im sure its just where the plant is and where the light is but id rather make sure , why would one side have pencil size long branch's and the other have very then short branchs , ?? a pic below .

thanks for all the help guys and gal .
p.s. stitch , so funny on the other post where the guys says ( jesus christ ) your a girl . seams people dont do research .lol




here are some of the the tye down pics , and the one that is growing uneven , lol









and here is the one that is growing funny ( i think )

 

[MynameStitch]

I would keep it to where it is now; and adjust it when they get bigger; right now the feeding is just fine; it has a nice green color not to dark and not showing any deficiency's any little amount of nutrients the plant WILL show you it even if its spotting.. so keep your feeding the way it is for now...

Your plants are not too young to be tied down either; they are just at the right height and age.

Sometimes that is the way the plant grows; it may have been getting more light than the others if something was reflecting the light; or it's just the plants genes.

LOL, well I only tell peeps I am female when they call me a guy; so they do not get made fun off; in the past when peeps called me a guy or a dude someone always comes out and says stitch is a female or chick or some other word and the person always feels bad... so I tell them before someone else does.....

 

[HeadyPete]

I give my plants a quarter turn clockwise every day so they receive even light. If I ever get more space I have a design for a motorized turntable that slowly turns when the lights are on, so all plants and nooks and crannies get even light.

#2 - You have two techniques confused, LST and SCROG. LST is tying down the tallest branches continuously till flowering so they are always even. When the tips are even then they receive even growth hormone. Consequently the buds grow even and evenly big. There is no cutting in LST. You just tie the tallest branch down to the others until you are ready to flower. Branches may require support when buds get large.

SCROG is where you train a plant to grow horizontal under a screen, and the side branches are evenly spaced up through the screen. You can trim the tips if needed. Each bud is now supported by the screen.

Here is a couple past posts describing LST:

Nice job! I applaud your commitment. Quite a crop! What is she and how was it?

I was just reading back. Please keep in mind if you add more light then your plants will require more food. The more light energy a plant receives, the faster the metabolism runs, the more water and food they need, and obviously this applies the other way too. Sometimes you see peeps feeding massive and they are growing under 150hps or CFL and they are burning them good. Your nute usage will go up when you go to 1K.

If you want to maximize your bud per plant look into LST and you can half the number of plants and double your yield. Plants grow way more bud when all the side branches are trained to grow up, creating many budsites, plus the even height branches (and future buds) all grow at the same rate - no one branch dominates like the main stem of a naturally upright growing plant. Also you get less lower scraggly popcorn bud, or none at all if you prune all the weak scraggly branches off 2 weeks after 12/12. By bending and training the main stem to grow horizontal, all the side branches now grow up toward the lights. Bend when plants need watering - this is when they are most soft and pliable - less chance of breaking it. If you break one, splint and tape it and it will heal just fine. You can space them evenly in a screen for support before they start budding up. I prefer less plants, but bigger, longer veg, LST and that means less soil, nutes, water, work etc and more buds.

Good luck!

Hey,

Sounds like you are setup.

You can start LSTing as soon as your plants are big enough to have some stem to bend over and secure. If you want more height when LSTing just let em grow up, no need to untie what you have already trained. Just let the horizontal main shoot grow vert again and keep all the tips at the same height as each other by pulling down any that get taller. By keeping the tips all even as they grow you negate the plant hormones which tell the tallest tip to dominate and grow fastest. When all the tips reach desired height, switch to 12/12 and you are golden. Don't forget to factor in the stretch of the plant when you switch over. If any branch gets too tall, LST it back down again. All the tips are getting the same grow hormones and grow at the same rate. Same applies when the buds start growing. They will all grow as nice even colas. The essence of LST is to keep all the tips at the same height as they grow.

I defer to Stitch on hydro nutes and hydro in general. Listen to her, especially since you used the tbsp instead of the tsp.

Take it easy

 

[MynameStitch]

Petey,that was the only thing I never did and I regretted it; I never turned my plants when I was growing them, never thought about it and I am sure it would have increased my yield a bit and kept the plant the same shape rather than taking shape where the brightest light was..... I hated removing my plants for pics cause when I brought them out to inspect them and get them fed there shape was weird from being in the same place and the light was not moved; so that was one thing I completely over looked in my grows