Broad mite IPM using a DIY essential oil mix, neem and conserve sc

[Bird of Hermes]

Looking for advice or input on making a preventative IPM strategy for broad/cyclamen mites. Room has been empty for 2 months so this isn't about knocking down a big infestation but want to develop a strategy to prevent future attacks. I took Buzz's advice and put some African violets in my room and have seen no activity for almost a week so I'm sure their gone but can't be sure they won't come back. Going to be alternating between a diy essential oil mix, neem and possibly conserve sc. All listed mixtures will be done in 1 gal mixes with RO water.

All 3 mixtures will start off with a base mixture for foliar sprays that I derived from posts by Who Dat Is(aka WDI) and is as follows:

5ml Dr Bronners sals suds
15ml soybean or canola oil
1/4 cup aloe Vera juice
A pinch of yucca extract powder
5ml seaweed extract
2ml pro tekt silica
Coconut water, though I'm unsure if he used a extract or regular water and the dosage so might skip this

The essential oil mix will either be a 1:1:1 ratio of cinnamon, rosemary and eucalyptus oil at 2-10ml or build a soils essential oil mix. Have heard the BAS mix can burn stuff easily so not sure about it.

The neem oil mix will be Einstein oil at 15-30ml unless there's a better neem oil then Einstein oil. I'm open to advice on that but heard it's the best.

The conserve sc idea came from many hours of scouring the web. On a forum that will not be named I saw a lot of people swearing by it for russets and figure it it kills them it should take out broads too. Supposedly the much higher ratio of spinosad(20x higher than others) and additional strain is supposed to make a night and day difference compared to Monterey, captain jacks ect. It's pricey but a lot of people seemed to have success and can be used into flowering at low dosages. Although I prefer not to spray anything at all once buds form.

Anybody have any thoughts on using this as a preventative IPM for broads? Any ratios that look way off or other essential oils that I should use? Also seen people dust their whole plants with diatomaceous earth in veg and stopping before flowering. Any ideas on if that would be a good idea? Seems sketchy but I've seen pics of veteran growers doing that in veg. Have decided not to use chemicals like avid, forbid ect since this is in a room I sleep in. Might still get predators but would have to constantly order them so want to try the foliar sprays first

Sorry for the long post and I'll be very grateful for any input on this

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

If you're only treating mums, go ahead and use neem. I, and an increasing number of other growers, have problems with the azadirachtin in neem oil. Using it on vegging plants will put aza in your end flowers at harvest. Diatomaceous earth is best used by mixing it in soil. It's super lightweight, stirs up with gentle breezes, sticks really well to trichomes and is a nasty lung irritant. Best not to scatter it around the room.

I hope someone chimes in with helpful advice. I'm interested in solutions for this issue myself, for future reference.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

If you're only treating mums, go ahead and use neem. I, and an increasing number of other growers, have problems with the azadirachtin in neem oil. Using it on vegging plants will put aza in your end flowers at harvest. Diatomaceous earth is best used by mixing it in soil. It's super lightweight, stirs up with gentle breezes, sticks really well to trichomes and is a nasty lung irritant. Best not to scatter it around the room.

I hope someone chimes in with helpful advice. I'm interested in solutions for this issue myself, for future reference.

Hmm well that gives me pause on the idea of using neem so will forgo that for now glad I haven't ordered any yet. Yeah I thought the diatomaceous earth idea sounded a little off and I'm using hempy buckets with perlite and hydroton so probably don't need anything there either. With how fine it is I could see it causing white lung or something similar eventually if you breathed in enough of it.

Have you heard of essential oils causing any issues in vegging and building up nasty chems in the plant like the neem seems to be doing? Found another one that seems to be deter broad mites earlier and it's pure food grade orange oil. The kind with pure d-limonee that's made from the rinds.

I'll scratch out neem and de from my mix don't want to take any health risks or make stuff taste really bad. Hopefully the essential oils are ok to use if not I can just stick to the basic mix that WDI uses with the Bronners soap and soybean/canola oil providing a barrier hopefully. Thanks for the warning on the neem and de Douglas

 

[redlaser]

I had mites show up about a month ago, and tried paraffin oil every three days for about 95% success rate. 30 ml per gallon.

I had better success with Castille soap at 90 ml per gallon of unscented along with .05 milligram citric acid powder.
That’s a rough copy of a company’s pesticide who’s name escapes me now.

These weren’t broad or cyclamen mites though that I had

 

[panick503]

Do you ever positively id the bugs with a microscope? If they were there in big enough numbers to make the plants sick, you definitely would have seen them

 

[Bird of Hermes]

I had mites show up about a month ago, and tried paraffin oil every three days for about 95% success rate. 30 ml per gallon.

I had better success with Castille soap at 90 ml per gallon of unscented along with .05 milligram citric acid powder.
That’s a rough copy of a company’s pesticide who’s name escapes me now.

These weren’t broad or cyclamen mites though that I had

Did you have russets maybe? I'd assume that whatever works on one micro mite would work on the others except the bigger spider mites though I'm just guessing here. I've only had experience with thirps before my recent broad mite nightmare and the thirps went down easy with Monterey spinosad.

Castille soap and citric acid power seem cheap enough I'll order some up and try that in rotation with the other foliar applications. Will experiment on small sections of plants and make sure I'm not burning anything. Thanks for the recipe red

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Do you ever positively id the bugs with a microscope? If they were there in big enough numbers to make the plants sick, you definitely would have seen them

With a 60x magnifier they looked exactly like pics of broad mites. Could have been cyclamens but I've seen many pics of both mites and they were spitting images of broads. Russets have a more worm like body and that's definitely not what I saw. They also moved rapidly which leads me to be more positive of the broad mite diagnosis. Damage was mostly confined to the buds with shriveled brown and purple pistils and deformed flowers.

I chopped and got rid of everything without seeing the eggs so can't be sure they weren't cyclamens but like I said they looked just like broad mites. They were running around everywhere so I got plenty of good looks at them. I tried fighting them with several hot air treatments of 120F for 3hrs and applications of big time exterminator. But after they kept bouncing back I just got rid of everything as fast as I could so I begin the 2 month down period where I had nothing at all in the room. That's coming to a end soon I'm at 8wks and am just trying to make a preventative IPM to hopefully stop them from reestablishing again.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

I've had African violets in my room about a week and I see nothing crawling on them so I'm fairly certain they starved to death and hopefully painfully so. Spider mites can go into diapause but I've found no info on the web saying that their smaller micro cousins can. I've found info that states they can't and even a usda report(from 1933 lol) where they did a 2 yr study. It specifically says they don't go into diapause/hibernate, hide in soil or planters and require "living plant tissue and hosts" to survive. It's a old report but seems pretty scientific so I'm hoping it's correct cause if so they've definitely starved by now.

Here's a link to that report if anybody's curious the info I'm citing is almost halfway down the page
https://archive.org/stream/cyclamenmitebroa301smit/cyclamenmitebroa301smit_djvu.txt

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

This IPM is for veg only, correct? Personally, I fix everything in veg and never spray anything in flower. The key is to determine the breeding/hatching schedule and kill repeatedly. Kill after hatching and before breeding, until all the eggs have hatched. Regular mites are 3-4 days after hatching before they can breed, what's the russet/broad mite breeding cycle?

HEPA class filters on your intakes. Freshly showered, wearing freshly laundered clothing when you check your garden. Outside infection sources nuked. Should I happen to get infected during a flowering run, choices are to let it run or chop and restart. ALL of what you mention will make nasty tasting cannabis.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

This IPM is for veg only, correct? Personally, I fix everything in veg and never spray anything in flower. The key is to determine the breeding/hatching schedule and kill repeatedly. Kill after hatching and before breeding, until all the eggs have hatched. Regular mites are 3-4 days after hatching before they can breed, what's the russet/broad mite breeding cycle?

HEPA class filters on your intakes. Freshly showered, wearing freshly laundered clothing when you check your garden. Outside infection sources nuked. Should I happen to get infected during a flowering run, choices are to let it run or chop and restart. ALL of what you mention will make nasty tasting cannabis.

Oh yeah I'd only spray stuff in veg and stop a week before flipping to 12/12 do you think stuff would still make it taste nasty if I only did that? I can do everything but guarantee there's nothing outside in my yards coming from my neighbors. I have a pretty old dog so don't feel comfortable spraying the yards with anything and see him eating grass at times when he has a upset stomach. Plus a few of my immediate neighbors have flower gardens including a 90yr old lady. Theoretically I could hop the fence and destroy everything but I'd be the world's biggest asshole and she'd probably call Leo on me lol. Plus I see her out there all the time enjoying it I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I did that. That's basically the issue here I can't control what's coming from neighbors so I'm just wondering if I can spray in veg. If even spraying essential oils in veg will make the buds taste awful I wont. Thanks again for the advice douglas

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Although the conserve sc should be able to be used early in flower like the first week or two but I'd never spray anything once buds form both for the taste concern and bud rot potential. I'm not sure how fast the cycle is for russets/cyclamens but they live 30-45 days so it's longer then the broads. I'm positive they were not russets I got very good looks at the adults. Can't be sure they were not cyclamens without seeing the eggs but they looked identical to broads. I'm 99% certain that's what they were and the damage was consistent with broads.

Broads have a very short lifespan males live 5-9 days and females 8-13. Eggs hatch in only 2-3 days and females lay up to 76 eggs which explains how my infestation spread like a wildfire within a week or so everything was decimated. Since I couldn't be 100% certain they weren't cyclamens I've waited 2 months to account for their longer lifespan but like I said they looked just like broads under 60x.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

With eggs hatching in 2-3 days, I would personally spray every other day with water/ethanol for up to 45 days. One ounce of ethanol per gallon of water and HUGE ventilation. (Anything other than a few plants will encroach on flammable vapors)

Your goal is to kill all hatched mites before they can lay eggs.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

With eggs hatching in 2-3 days, I would personally spray every other day with water/ethanol for up to 45 days. One ounce of ethanol per gallon of water and HUGE ventilation. (Anything other than a few plants will encroach on flammable vapors)

Your goal is to kill all hatched mites before they can lay eggs.

Are you suggesting I do this as a preventative during vegging or only if I find them again? I got nothing going on now and following buzz's advice some African violets I put in the room show no signs of infestation.

When you say ethanol are you talking about 91% iso or do you mean something like this? The iso is much easier to source at Wal-Mart but would have to order the ethanol.

https://www.amazon.com/Laboratory-G...e=UTF8&qid=1524965953&sr=8-3&keywords=Ethanol

Thanks again for the help brother I'll take all I can get I don't want to go through that hell again.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Pretty sure you meant ethanol though and if so I'll order some up. Actually that link I posted just now was lab grade but just found this food grade stuff. Does this stuff look good?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076JKTHK...VH&pd_rd_r=BJ4WVS4CARK2CCYHDPS1&pd_rd_w=jfr9L

Edit just had a brainstorm isn't everclear pretty much close to pure ethanol? If so the specs liquor store in my town probably has some.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Everclear works fine, and yes this is only for veg when they're found. I believe in checking plants every day for issues and treating accordingly.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Sounds good I know 5% alcohol solutions can hurt stuff but at the roughly .75% solution you're reccomending it shouldn't hurt at all. I figure it's ok to use a foliar mix of the yucca, seaweed, aloe vera and pro tekt as a plant tonic to keep a good leaf sheen would help. Might experiment with a small plant using that same mix with the canola oil, rosemary oil and Dr bronners and see if it burns anything or makes stuff taste weird.

I'll stick to the base foliar tonic for the main crop though and only spray in veg. If I find anything I'll use the ethanol mix you suggested thanks man.

 

[Bird of Hermes]

Found some info in the broad mite sticky about conserve sc being effective.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228387&page=6

It's pricey but I'm going to add it to my arsenal for sure. Can use it in rotation with the ethanol mix that Douglas recommended as a take down spray if I find them attacking again. Might even spray it preventatively during the first grow after I start back up. Thinking about picking up mycostop to toss in the plant tonic spray I pilfered from WDI's posts to prevent powdery mildew.

 

[igrowone]

i've done some mite stomping with essential oils, they do work and very benign aspects
was killing mites deep in flower, got my buds and tasted just fine
recommend a good applicator tip, that makes life much easier

 

[Bird of Hermes]

i've done some mite stomping with essential oils, they do work and very benign aspects
was killing mites deep in flower, got my buds and tasted just fine
recommend a good applicator tip, that makes life much easier

Nice I'm definitely picking up some rosemary oil may also get some orange oil d-limonene, clove and peppermint oil but here that rosemary is the best so starting there. In fact I think you told me just that in a previous thread if my memory is correct lol.

I'm still trying to decide if I need a cheap electric hlvp paint gun for a finer mist or if a pump sprayer would be good enough. The 1 gallon pump sprayer that I'm looking at has a adjustable nozzle on its want so I'm assuming I could get a pretty fine mist. Probably gonna opt for a cheap pump sprayer unless the paint gun is a lot better. I only have two small 8sq ft cabs so don't need a big fancy fogger or anything.

 

[igrowone]

Nice I'm definitely picking up some rosemary oil may also get some orange oil d-limonene, clove and peppermint oil but here that rosemary is the best so starting there. In fact I think you told me just that in a previous thread if my memory is correct lol.

I'm still trying to decide if I need a cheap electric hlvp paint gun for a finer mist or if a pump sprayer would be good enough. The 1 gallon pump sprayer that I'm looking at has a adjustable nozzle on its want so I'm assuming I could get a pretty fine mist. Probably gonna opt for a cheap pump sprayer unless the paint gun is a lot better. I only have two small 8sq ft cabs so don't need a big fancy fogger or anything.

good memory, rosemary is supposed to be the deadlier of the bunch
and i feel you on the applicator, a nice small one that lets you do a 360 degree of coverage
haven't shopped for one until i need it, but been mite free for years now
they CAN be beaten