breeding....

[3RD_Rail]

i have a breeding question for you....

if i make a cross (BB X WW) i need to back cross those seeds to the original line before outcrossing again?

BB X (BB X WW)? is it acceptable to back cross using the male (BB X WW) X BB?

i will have to use F2's for the backcross...instead of a "cubing" type of affair with a clone...will the results of one of the above be acceptable for outcrossing a second time?

IF

the results of the crossing are better than my F3's (i.e. more vigorous, more potent/better high, better flavor, better yield, better growth profile, faster maturing, etc.)...

AND

i have a second set of crosses, say BB X (BB X ROM) that are also better than my F3's...

can i cros those two lines, and call that a "new" strain?

e.g.

[BB X (BB X WW)] X [BB X (BB X ROM)]

OR

[BB X (BB X ROM)] X [BB X (BB X WW)]

ALSO

what about a parallel line cross like [WW X {WW X BB)] X [BB X (BB X WW)]? is that a "new" strain? what should i use to stabilize a cross like this?

just the best single plant i have available from making the crosses?

I know all this is just a theory and i should use the best plants available to me from my limited space and ability to test, but some insight may prove beneficial.

thanks,

3RD Rail

"Knockin' your ass out since way back"

 

[Guest]

my advice is wait till you have a specific goal in mind and it will all fall into place.
BB and WW are both fairly stable as i understand it (ive never grown either)
so an F1 hybrid is an option and you can bx from there to either parent--
just as long as you have a specific goal in mind.
if there is no method to yer madness you will be wasting time and space ($)
so what is the goal? if you just want a stable 'bbxww' hybrid,
you first need to make the initial cross to see how dominant each parent was
in the f1 population. this will give you a much better idea of where to go with the line.
best of luck and keep us updated on yer progress take care

 

[fjällhöga]

what cap said , try to get an image of what you want from the strains to be/do ....
just my 2 c´s
Fj

 

[Closet Funk]

Goals are important as for selection. Make your hybrid cross between two strains and make seeds. The two parent plants should be plants that you liked anyways. Now you got F1 seeds (not true F1's). Grow those out and select your best female and male(s). Now you can find what traits you like. The F1 seeds will show traits from both parents but more dominant then recessive. Say for example your White Widow x Blueberry cross worked out. The F1 generation will show plants that resemble some White Widows and Blueberry parents. Some will show a 50/50 of traits from both plants. Other traits can show up too. Say you select a nice female that resembles your White Widow mother but has the blueberry color and taste. Choose her and cross her with a choosen male plant to make seeds for the F2 generation. Sometimes if you have a few nice males it's good to mix all the pollen together and pollinate, this way there is more variation in the F2 population. Now you make your F2's and grow them out. This generation will show alot more variations and you can begin to choose your favorite traits. One thing you can do is choose your favorite female and backcross her to an F1 male or the original father you used in the hybrid cross. This will be considered as your Bx1 cross. The same method can be used to backcross again. Inbreeding or Backcrossing can result in stable strains if you got the room to grow out tons of plants to choose your best. Some keep inbreeding further down past the F2 generation. Some say if your growing lots of plants usually the F2 generation will show what your looking for. From thier you backcross to lock down traits. Read Marijuana Botany and The Breeders Bible and you will get a more understanding of breeding. I'm still learning too and this info may not be 100% correct.

 

[3RD_Rail]

thaaaannnnks man!

there was another thread where people were breaking out the cool pictures so i hopped over there and basically paraphrased what was said above.

the goal from the above was to get a non mutie blueberry-ish population. basically to improve the finicky nature of the blueberry with out taking away the taste or coloring. i have had some very fruity WW crosses and other people had reported good results with that cross. the same goes for romulan (which was one of my favorite plants and had purple stems that i would like to keep in the population).

So, basically i am looking for a fruity tasting plant; that turns blue late in flower and has purple stems already; with a heavy glandular resin coating; that does not contain lots of mutants and is not prone to hermie; that grows vigorously and yields decently; with a respectable finish time; that is not overly nutrient sensitive, and OH YEAH it would not hurt my feelings any if it gets me REAL HIGH (both in the head and the body - maybe even a little hallucinogenic).

but i think i will need to run several parallel lines to make this thing that i will be calling DARKSEID or DARK ANGEL if/when it is ever finished. (i think Dark Angel with be a more sativa version) i will also be looking to make a totally sativa plant with no blue coloring called SNOW ANGEL and a totally indica plant called 3RD RAIL.

that's the goal, probably will not be able to finish even one.

these are just for friends and family, but i want to say that "MY" plants are as good or better than some/most/all of what is commercially available (i want to say that, but i guess that wont necessarily make it true....)

later

the rail

 

[shasta]

BB x WW

BB x WW

Rail,

I'm planning a similar cross, not really to breed a stable strain but to make seed and smoke...I'd appreciate any input you care to offer....

Small grow=three plants/organic soil
One Female Seeds WW and two DP BB
Hope for one male and one female BB

If either BB a male I get blue widow and BB seeds, or if both BB female I get WW and BB sensi and try again next time. What am I missing...Hit me

Shasta

 

[3RD_Rail]

i have just recently rediscovered some wisdom lost to me...

i have just recently rediscovered some wisdom lost to me...

i started this thread thinking something, and realize after reading the "breeding for beginners..." thread that much of the answer to my question i already knew.

it's about "fixing" traits and being more or less "lucky".

i have read lots of information from lots of breeders, but only now am i able to start visualizing some answers. i think, becuase my questions caused to re-evaluate my mind set.

-sorry for the long tirade-

NOW,

the answer to your question is "yes, you will" and just like the answer to my question it depends on the nature of the traits expressed by the plants in question.

much of the answer is "what are the current standards (much like AKC kennel club standards for dogs...) for breeding?"

can i cross two plants then do a backcross and say that those plants are "fixed" for use as breeding stock to get a certain result? MAYBE, depends on the plants.

i asked reeferman this question first (well, because he is at the pinnacle right now...much like guys like DJ short and shantibaba have been) because i had really wanted to purchase the LOVE POTION #1 (LP1) to add some sativa genetics to a group of plants if was trying to keep so i dont have to continually purchase seed.

LP1 is columbian gold X G13 then back crossed to the columbian gold. i wrote the question on a whim without really thinking, but some good results have come from that as i have thought and remembered and also learned.

it would be nice to start having some standards...and a standard guide...for what constitutes what type of plant. the groud work has definately been laid. then ask for breeders to voluntarily show the results.

like with subcool's DPD...show a large test grow of that seed lot all grown under a specified (and the more specified the better) method, and let people see..

how many seeds cracked...how many plants were mutated...how many plants grew tall or short... or yielded good or bad ... or had nutrient problems ... or hermie problems ... or how much glandular resin coating... or turned purple ...taste and high??? how can we tell that from a picture - maybe some kind of testing body (and oh brother there goes money and corruption over seed prices)

and what should the standard be for a top notch grower? how many plants are necessary? is the "CUP" the taste and high "referee" if you will?

see we have to have standards....

right now i know someone who is growing some seed... WR X AK48 (the pic.s are at *****) and he started 60 seeds, and is now down to just seven plants. now if he only showed pictures of the best plant you might think..."whoa, those are alright seeds".

but if you read what is written in the post, you see how many of the plants had problems and what those problems were.

this guy is still trying to fix problems in his grow in addition to genetic problems, so he is no where near to being close enough to having a stable environment where he can grow and test genetics.

this is just the begining of a decent answer to your question...

and, thanks for asking...

the rail.

 

[shasta]

Thanks Rail,

I also do not wish to continually buy seeds...and don't plan on keeping a mother for cloning. So it's seeds for me.

So far as real breeding and standards, I'm leaving that to others. I just picked two strains that should be stable and knock out stone, (and, I just realized they're both Dutch work). It will be interesting to see how much variation in that first generation. BTW, last grow was Bog's lifesaver and bogbubble. Same experience as others, I ended up with wild variations, tall, short, indica-ish, sativa-ish, but all kind. Thanks again Rail.

Shasta