Breeding with ethics and genetics

[Space_skunk]

I’ve been growing cannabis off and on for about 6 - 7 years, mostly due to moving and changing jobs but I’m back at it and I want to try and bring back the type of skunk / dank that changed my pallet many years ago. So for a while now I’ve been collecting seeds of things I think can bring that type of cannabis that I want to smoke on but in the end if I use any of this it’s off the back of those growers and I’m not about that at all! I could go to a landrace country and try to get seeds but then times are crazy right now and thats not an option for more than most home growers, but if I wanted to try and create a new strain in today’s cannabis world what would be some good ethics, questions, ways to start, etc.

 

[Chi13]

There are a few companies that sell landrace genetics so;
Buy landrace genetices that you think you will like.
Preserve those genetics in pure form first (since that is the ethical thing to do)
Cross them to create genuine f1s and take it from there.
Be aware though, that real breeding takes a lot of plants, and a lot of time.

However, if I was looking for skunk, Id probably just buy skunk. You are unlikely to be able to recreate anything like that, and why would you want to, unless it's a particular skunk that is now unavailable. Even if you could get genuine Afghan, Acapulco gold, and Colombian, they would not be the same as the original.

 

[StickyBandit]

There must be tens of thousands of people out there crossing plants and making strains with purchased seeds. I doubt whether the seed sellers hold that against them unless they were to start a business and claim they did all the work themselves.
You could contact the seed company who's seeds you wish to use and ask for their blessing in an email. I'm sure many would see it as a compliment

 

[djonkoman]

why would it be a bad thing to build on others progress? seems rather inefficient to me if everyone who wants to breed always has to go back to landraces. kind of like judging all current day scientists who built further on darwin, mendel or newton for being copycats.
besides, people were also involved in the creation of those landraces. who is going to travel down to those areas and ask all these people who maintained the landrace over the years if they can breed with it?

the plant variety rights that protect legal crop varieties even have a specific rule, the breeder's exemption, stating anyone can breed with whatever they want. only if you bring the end result of your breeding to the market you'll have to prove you created a new variety (distinct, uniform, stable). but as long as the end result is novel, you can put into it whatever ancestors you wish.
I would find it pretty silly to go around asking breeders if I can use their strains in breeding after I already paid for the seeds. if they didn't want people to breed with it they should sell the seeds with a contract.
now if someone would privately gift me some work in progress and states they don't want me to breed with it, or a tester not yet on the market, that could change things. but if it's for sale I consider it a free for all. and if someone would actually want to gift me something with such a condition I'd probably refuse the gift, because what's the point in growing something I can't use as breeding material.

 

[willydread]

First let me say I appreciate your concern for ethics, (especially in a world where many take a strain, rename it and resell it) if you want to create a strain for yourself, just do as you please, if you want to create a strain instead. to trade / gift, I believe that if you cross two different strains you just need to mention the breeder, (for example I crossed an unknown Nl5hz with aceseeds zamaldelica, I've never had any problems with Dubi, in fact, usually most breeders are happy because this way you advertise their seedbank ...

 

[Space_skunk]

Skunk I’m referring to is not like the skunk I’ve seen of late it’s either heavy in gas or it’s that skunk 1 sweetness. I’m referring to a skunk that we would quite often get in Ky that wasn’t RKS but it was skunk! And pine sometimes. I don’t care for the fruity strain so much my pallet prefers acrid, stink, dank, skunky, sour, gas. It’s also for my self and anyone else who likes that type of cannabis not trying to be cookies or anything but I can’t find the type of cannabis I like at dispensaries and I love growing cannabis regardless so if I’ve got the resources then I would prefer to start working on something.

 

[Space_skunk]

I was listening to several podcasts the other day albeit some were 5-6 years old but the interviewer asked this type of question and the breeder said no it’s not ok for some home grower to mess around and pollen chuck because it’s polluting the gene pool? I still to this day do not know another grower personally so I’ve been learning what I can where I can and everything that has been commented is great and I feel the same but I’m just trying to get some feedback before I commit to one sole project so I’m jus trying to be responsible, respectful, and good person with in this cannabis community.

 

[ojd]

I was listening to several podcasts the other day albeit some were 5-6 years old but the interviewer asked this type of question and the breeder said no it’s not ok for some home grower to mess around and pollen chuck because it’s polluting the gene pool? I still to this day do not know another grower personally so I’ve been learning what I can where I can and everything that has been commented is great and I feel the same but I’m just trying to get some feedback before I commit to one sole project so I’m jus trying to be responsible, respectful, and good person with in this cannabis community.

is fine to use seeds purchased or gifted to make your own X's or F2's , for sale is a bit different but as long as you mention the original breeder in your work then should be fine .

what podcast said it wasnt ok and would pollute the genepool ?

 

[JockBudman]

I was listening to several podcasts the other day albeit some were 5-6 years old but the interviewer asked this type of question and the breeder said no it’s not ok for some home grower to mess around and pollen chuck because it’s polluting the gene pool?

Now why would a person makin money off sellin seeds say that ah wonder...?

It's like our version of "home tapin is killin music" - total bollocks. Whoever said that, how did they start out? Wi a big facility an tons of plants, lights etc? Did they fuck, they started as a home hacker like you.

Ah make ma own seed an if any ever left ma circle, they'd have a strain description wi a breakdown of the parental plants, selections made etc so folk can follow the lines back.
Now if your man was talkin about every dick an his dog chuckin STS ontae female A and bangin it tae female B, then aye, ah feel the same way. Regs only for me an ah tend tae go for landraces, worked landraces an old IBLs for ma stuff tae try tae avoid bottleneckin.

Btw if you want a lead on skunk, am thinkin of a project combinin red snake frae cannabiogen (Oaxacan 78 X Punto rojo) wi an Afghan. Need tae find a good mum first then try out ma different Afghan lines tae see what's goin tae gie her the best cross but feel free tae try somethin similar.

 

[ArtOfSelection]

imo as long as your not ripping off other breeders strain names and are actually doing some breeding and selection then who can grumble ? .........anyone can strike lucky and come across a stand-out Pheno from retail packs.. or make an interesting home cross and find some unique terps or effects...............the real contention comes from repos.........reproductions of other peoples strain’s using the exact same name and genetics or same genetics with slight name variation ............now..... often repos come along when seed lines get discontinued orrr the parent plants are lost and public opinion states the strain has changed ....but then other times its just a blatant cynical money grab!!....but,.. as others have said every breeder starts somewhere .......and that somewhere is almost always other peoples work

 

[Chi13]

I like hybrids and multi hybrids, (even multi multi hybrids). In fact I grow a few and also make my own crosses for my own use.

HOwever, the biggest threat to cannabis genetics, is these inbred multihybrids that most breeders do. Things are much less diverse than when I started smoking in the 70s. If you care about the future, the most important thing you can do to help the plant is to purchase and reproduce landrace genetics in their pure form, and get those seeds out to others.

As for doing your own breeding at home with multihybrids, there's no real issue. That horse bolted years ago. Everone does it and really unless you are taking those hybrids to far off traditional producers and fucking their gene pool, you are doing no harm (like greenhouse seeds did).

 

[willydread]

I have never heard a breeder complain about other people using their strains as breeding material ... Obviously if someone renames someone else's strain it's another matter ...
Also I don't understand how you can ruin the gene pool ... of what?

 

[Roms]

Hi Space_skunk, i would advice you to explore and select some pure Afghan or Pakistan to refind your skunk love acrid and gaz, nowadays less hard to find seeds and more and more kush landraces on the scene since few years. For sure it's not easy to select pure strains and find winners rapidly but with the true green force and love your luck can shine faster and the absolute ethics of genetics is in your other hand. Have fun bro

That said there's also some top skunk revival breeding in the community, something like Exodus cut x RKS should be somewhere from private or official breeders. but have to respect a lot the work done hehe.

 

[Tynehead Tom]

I have never heard a breeder complain about other people using their strains as breeding material ... Obviously if someone renames someone else's strain it's another matter ...
Also I don't understand how you can ruin the gene pool ... of what?

ya, I will echo what you are saying
It's all fine and good to approach using other peoples work with an ethical mind.
To me that means that if I buy seeds or receive a cut I can trace to it's origin grower, I generally try and reach out and let them know my plans. I have never been told by a breeder that I can't work with their gear but nearly all of them have asked that "reproductions and S1's" are crossing the line.
I hold a few plants found in purchased seeds from various well known breeders that I have worked now for several years and have incorporated them with other plants that I really like. Some I have released, most I have not.
When I post about stuff I am working on or if I release something , I generally make it a practice to be as open as I can with how I got there and who's gear I may have used in the mix

Then there is preservation work..... again just being open and honest about the plants, where they were sourced ect.
I make F2's and often F3's of many packs of seeds I have purchased or been given but only stuff that really stands out to me.
When I do find something I feel is exceptional in another breeders packs and I feel compelled to make F2's or further inbreeding of the line I will generally also reach out the original breeder and make them aware of the finds and my future plans. I have already had one breeder respond that was also extremely impressed with the finds and accepted a few hundred seeds so they could bring those genetics together with what remained of their original seeds.
Karma's Old Grandpa Scratch Limitted and original release Biker Kush are two of my absolute favorite lines to play around with.
In those biker packs I found some plants I really liked and combined them and now I have a healthy sack of seeds that produce two phenotypes reliably so no need to keep clones.
With the Old Grandpa Scratch I scoured up the last 7 packs I could find LOL and in those I found 1 very special female that was in a league of her own and very different than anything else in those seeds. I made F2's in hopes of bringing out some males like 1 out of 70 female..... I got lucky and found the male I needed after about 100 seeds of the F2 and went back to the mother..... The seeds from that incestual back cross has produced a sack of seeds that are in my view in a league of their own and the desired traits are locked in. The seedlot is also producing some crazy outliers in about 1 in 30 seeds that are taking me down another rabbit hole LOL I offered Karma some of these beans and told him there is absolute fire in those Old Grandpa Scratch beans..... I think this cut I have crossed to Karmas Sowah...... wowzers.... he declined my offer but he can always change his mind hehehe

anyhow, pay homage to those who's work you find special and just be upfront about everything.
If you are just crossing stuff or reproducing stuff for you and your close friends I don't really think any of the above matters but if you plan to breed and sell seeds.... I think it matters a lot

 

[troutman]

the breeder said no it’s not ok for some home grower to mess around and pollen chuck because it’s polluting the gene pool?

^^^ The person who said that probably wants everybody to buy their seeds.

​

No cross you make will pollute the gene pool if you keep them to yourself. It's not like everybody's genetics are being shared.

Some people keep secret goodies hidden.

 

[willydread]

^^^ The person who said that probably wants everybody to buy their seeds.

​

No cross you make will pollute the gene pool if you keep them to yourself. It's not like everybody's genetics are being shared.

Some people keep secret goodies hidden.

I am agree, maybe he don't want a competitori...

I really don't understand (ok I'm not a commercial breeder), but I don't see the problem if someone uses my varieties to create others, even commercially ....
(even without giving approval, they definitely will) Rather, it would give me a lot of annoyance, anger and sorrow if someone would sell my variety under another name ....
There is no genetic contamination,skunk x skunk is skunk, skunk x afghani is sk x Afg, and (mex x Afg) x colombian is a good hibrid...

 

[rolandomota]

Think of it this way how will anyone know your using their genetics unless you say so?
maybe you scored some good nameless bud you like with seeds and you reproduce and sell it just like everyone else does and has done.

Who do you give credit to? Not a damn person but yourself

 

[Space_skunk]

Thank you everyone for all the fantastic feedback and replies I feel like the skunk I’m remembering from the 90’s in Kentucky was coming from Afghan or heavy Afghan varieties that had this skunkiness & pine, we didn’t get a lot of names when buying it other than dank, kind, occasionally NL and bubble gum, and you better get it now because it’s going to go fast! I just grew a couple Aurora indicad outdoor this year and I was getting a nice skunky aroma off it that felt very reminiscent? Again thank you to everyone for all the responses and info!

 

[...CR500AF...]

Anything we bought was called pot, weed, oil came in a film container, iso oil, hash that varied greatly.
The only people i remember hearing names of strains was with my brother and my uncles and family...

Nobody heard about the people that made it we just smoked it lol...

 

[El Timbo]

The only moral/ethical obligation I can see is towards customers if a seed maker/breeder decides to sell seeds - some don't even grow out their crosses to test them before putting them on the market.