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Breeding the CBD back in
- Thread starter Fafafooey
- Start date
You need to understand that THC and CBD are genetically determined by the presence of 2 alleles on the B locus of one of he chromosomes. If you have a BT allele, it will cause the plant to produce an enxyme to convert CBG into THC. If you have the Bd allele, an enzyme will convert CBG into CBD. If you have both Bt and BD, you will get both THC and CBD. In the wild, you have land race strains that contain 3 genotypes, BtBt,BtBd, and BdBd. The first produces primarily THC, the second produces both and the last produces CBD. Commercial breeders get rid of the BtBd and BdBd genotypes.
In short, it is practically impossible to breed a high CBd strain using commercial seed, as it simply does not have the genetics for it. You can ,however, get unworked land race seed from some companies, like Real Seed Company and others, that still have the original genetics. I am attempting such a project right now.
The only way for an amateur to test for cannabinoid content is by Thin Layer Chromatography. See the following website:
http://www.cannalytics.nl/
In short, it is practically impossible to breed a high CBd strain using commercial seed, as it simply does not have the genetics for it. You can ,however, get unworked land race seed from some companies, like Real Seed Company and others, that still have the original genetics. I am attempting such a project right now.
The only way for an amateur to test for cannabinoid content is by Thin Layer Chromatography. See the following website:
http://www.cannalytics.nl/
Pops- I've seen you give a lot of great background on the CBD questions here. I've got one for you. I have an older Alaskan line sourced from the Kenai peninsula. The seeds I got shocked me by showing a remarkable amount of phenotypic variation, and I chose to keep two strikingly different phenotypes: One, an upright plant with thinner leaves than your average commercial hybrid, that acts like what 'The Thunderfuck' is supposed to act like. The other is more interesting- a squat, ugly, bushy, broad-leafed plant that grows almost prone to the ground and has internode spacing too tight to comfortably clone without taking like 8-10 nodes. The product is not much to speak of in terms of head highs or yield, but the stone lasts for freaking EVER. Also, it appears to be semi-autoflower. Does this set of Rudi traits sound like a good place to you to look for CBD production?
stinkyattic said:
Define SEMI-autoflower?
Also. Do you know of anyone with medical conditions that can vouch for the medicinal potential of the plant? Some strains I found not to be very "High'ish" turned out to be pretty good medical wise.
Have you tried making BHO from both plants and mixing it?
Fafafooey
Member
pops, yes, I have heard that before that the CBD alleles have been bred out, but what I don't understand is, why then do common strains still produce some CBD? My thinking was that if its producing CBD, then it has some genetic capacity to do so, and perhaps that capacity could be selected for. Sounds like its been tried though, but I'm just curious where the plant gets that capacity to produce 1.5% CBD or whatever it makes.
It apparently will flower under photoperiod that is less than 12 hours of true darkness. My outdoor testers reported that it was in full flower in early July and DONE, amber trichs and all, by the second week in September, next to their own outdoor strain that shows sex late July and finishes in early October.
I will be further testing this indoors in a breeding box set to 14 on 10 off and confirm. The Mighty Mite line is known to produce individuals that show this trait and I have heard unconfirmed rumours that some Alaskans are capable of it.
Yes, in fact a male of that same pheno that was one of the parents in a cross I made about 2 years ago to a NRS white rhino female. Among the offspring I selected a mother plant that I keep to this day for one particular medical grower/client with a spinal injury who recently used it to come off morphine. Another close friend who already got past a decade-long opiate dependence has given it thumbs up for counteracting the lasting effects from the drugs. He's working with a cross of the rudi female of that line to my sourbubble male and we have both been impressed so far. So I have a very strong reason to believe that it has a lot of value, but would like ot work with it more as a pure strain and not as that WR outcross, to assess it better, before selecting maybe a different line to work it with for pain management. I think the WR x KTF is actually too strong for daytime applications and both testers agree.
BHO... OMG... *clunk
You can peel me off the floor when I stop drooling, aight? I haven't made that poison yet! I fear it! A lot! lololol...
I will be further testing this indoors in a breeding box set to 14 on 10 off and confirm. The Mighty Mite line is known to produce individuals that show this trait and I have heard unconfirmed rumours that some Alaskans are capable of it.
Yes, in fact a male of that same pheno that was one of the parents in a cross I made about 2 years ago to a NRS white rhino female. Among the offspring I selected a mother plant that I keep to this day for one particular medical grower/client with a spinal injury who recently used it to come off morphine. Another close friend who already got past a decade-long opiate dependence has given it thumbs up for counteracting the lasting effects from the drugs. He's working with a cross of the rudi female of that line to my sourbubble male and we have both been impressed so far. So I have a very strong reason to believe that it has a lot of value, but would like ot work with it more as a pure strain and not as that WR outcross, to assess it better, before selecting maybe a different line to work it with for pain management. I think the WR x KTF is actually too strong for daytime applications and both testers agree.
BHO... OMG... *clunk
You can peel me off the floor when I stop drooling, aight?
I haven't made that poison yet! I fear it! A lot! lololol...Ruderalis strains, in general, have a much lower total cannabinoid level than drug strains. Yes, there are Rudis that have CBD. In the med forum,we have a thread going on CBD that some of you might want to check out. Generally, CBD will not lengthen the "stone" but moderate it. THCV, however will lengthen the strain as it prevents THc from leaving the body as early as it notmally would. I have heard different opinions that CBD makes you relaxed and lethargic and that it energizes folks. I think far too many people confuse CBD with CBN.
The vast majority of us here in the States, have no experience with CBD and would not know the effects of it. Folks in Europe who get Afghan,Lebanese or Moroccan hash are very accustomed to the effects, as the hash is 50%THc and 50% CBD. Until we all start testing our strains with something like the cannalyzer Kit, we will not know whether we have CBD in our strain or not(pure CBD strains are the exception,as they will not get you stoned.)
I have a feral hemp strain going right now that I plan on using for CBD,if it lives. It is hard to grow and I don't know the flower period. I plan on mixing the bud from this with bud from my THc strains and soaking imn alcohol to make a tincture. I will heat it to convert the THCA and CBDA to THC and CBD. I will give it to my son in cranberry juice, as the alcohol tincture tastes like 3 year old poopy diapers.
Fafafooey, hemp strains are BdBd genotypes,but still contain some THC, usually less than 1%. Drug strain are BtBt genotypes and usually contain some CBD, typically less than .1%. I can't really explain why as I don't have degrees in organic chemistry or biology. I do know that you cannot back breed a drug strain that does not have the Bd allele and get any appreciable amount of CBD. Your best bet is still to find unworked land race hash strain from the Middle East(except Egypt), Afghanistan, India and Pakistan. Many of these have high total cannabinoid levels,(unlike ruderalis) and pleasant combinations of terpenes. It is possible to find BtBd genotypes among them, but difficult to recognize. It would be better if you found a BdBd female,with mostly CBD, and bred it to your favorite drug strain male. that breeding woulf result in all seeds containing BtBd genotypes.
Stinkyattic, i have found some strains that autoflower under some conditions(usually stressful) but not perfect conditions. It would be unusual, considering the weather in Alaska, for a strain to not develop some sort of AF mechanism to fit the climate there.Not sure how it would survive otherwise, unless the strain develops a much shorter flowering cycle.
The vast majority of us here in the States, have no experience with CBD and would not know the effects of it. Folks in Europe who get Afghan,Lebanese or Moroccan hash are very accustomed to the effects, as the hash is 50%THc and 50% CBD. Until we all start testing our strains with something like the cannalyzer Kit, we will not know whether we have CBD in our strain or not(pure CBD strains are the exception,as they will not get you stoned.)
I have a feral hemp strain going right now that I plan on using for CBD,if it lives. It is hard to grow and I don't know the flower period. I plan on mixing the bud from this with bud from my THc strains and soaking imn alcohol to make a tincture. I will heat it to convert the THCA and CBDA to THC and CBD. I will give it to my son in cranberry juice, as the alcohol tincture tastes like 3 year old poopy diapers.
Fafafooey, hemp strains are BdBd genotypes,but still contain some THC, usually less than 1%. Drug strain are BtBt genotypes and usually contain some CBD, typically less than .1%. I can't really explain why as I don't have degrees in organic chemistry or biology. I do know that you cannot back breed a drug strain that does not have the Bd allele and get any appreciable amount of CBD. Your best bet is still to find unworked land race hash strain from the Middle East(except Egypt), Afghanistan, India and Pakistan. Many of these have high total cannabinoid levels,(unlike ruderalis) and pleasant combinations of terpenes. It is possible to find BtBd genotypes among them, but difficult to recognize. It would be better if you found a BdBd female,with mostly CBD, and bred it to your favorite drug strain male. that breeding woulf result in all seeds containing BtBd genotypes.
Stinkyattic, i have found some strains that autoflower under some conditions(usually stressful) but not perfect conditions. It would be unusual, considering the weather in Alaska, for a strain to not develop some sort of AF mechanism to fit the climate there.Not sure how it would survive otherwise, unless the strain develops a much shorter flowering cycle.
S
Space Ghost
Pops, i have confidence in you and I hope that you can breed some higher cbd strains because the psychotic symptoms of my disorders have me in shambles, and I have tried 4 anti-psychotics including Haldol and not had any great success with any, and the side effects from those are shit. oh and they don't work and are crazy expensive...
also, i don't care about "a pleasant combination of terpines" I'd smoke old socks mixed with dog butthole to feel better...
also, i don't care about "a pleasant combination of terpines" I'd smoke old socks mixed with dog butthole to feel better...
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SG, I try to stay away from the dog buttholes phenos, but I would use them if it would help. CBD is a natural anti-psychotic. you may want to read this article from Brazil.
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-879X2006000400001&script=sci_arttext
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-879X2006000400001&script=sci_arttext
Pops always dropped great knowledge. Hope you are well out there somewhere Pops!
