Boy! Do I ever need HELP.

[Corvette Doc]

Hello, everyone. This is my first post ever to any site like this. I have been looking through this great site for a couple of months and finally registered after getting my Colorado MMJ lic. last week.
The amount of information on this site is just INCREDIBLE! But there-in lies my problem. The more i keep reading the more confusing it all becomes to me. i am probably more lost than before i started reading.
I use to do quite a bit of out-door growing during the early 1980s but quit when i had a couple of close calls with cops. I haven't smoked or grown anything in all that time. I can't believe the amount of information that is now available and most of it seems to be composed onto this site.
Now my glaucoma has taken my right eye and starting on my left. When combined with some other problems i decided it is time to go back to the weed.
I want to start growing since i can't afford most of the dispensary prices and need to start up very cheaply.
I have an unused area in a bath-room that was supposed to have been a closet. It is only 31 inches by 31 inches square with a 89 inch ceiling. I am almost forced to use just fluorescent lights since there is only one outlet that is available to use in this area. It was supposed to be for the tub but i have never used the tub's pump since living here. It is a 20amp dedicated circuit with GFI outlet and 12-2 wire. I thought about changing to a standard outlet but can not reach under the tub well enough to get the GFI out. The 31" X 31" space is right behind the tub on an exterior wall. There is no way to reach the space above it from the attic due to the roof pitch, so i can't get an exhaust fan going through the ceiling like many on here seem to do. I think this brings me back to fluorescent lighting again from what i have read to keep heat down. Can CHEAP LED panels from ebay help the fluorescent lights get the spectrum needed for good growth? There is no way that i can afford $100+ on any light.
Now given a lack of money and this small space with limitted power access how would some of you very EXPERIENCED growers start building up the space? I wondered about building a cabinet, but would it be better to leave it as is? I am only allowed 6 plants (3 mature and 3 smalls??? still don't understand that wording). But i don't have to worry about hiding it much either.
I COMPLETELY SUCK AT CHANGING METRIC TO USA! So, PLEASE keep measures to inches, feet, gallons, and ???.
I also wndered how much more involved it would be to use coco instead of regular soil? Is there enough power available in this space to someday change to hydroponic? How can i be sure that i am building the space right the first time so that i don't have to redo things later as i learn and change? Sorry if my questions are too many and kinda lame, but the more i read on this site the more confused i seem to get...Guess i am just getting old. I seriously need to keep the power use down since i can barely afford my utillities as it is...disability doesn't pay much...and i only have the one outlet available in there.
Thank-you for any help you can give me in getting this up and growing. Take Care.

 

[DaPurps]

Well.. for cheap. If you have a room with a corner you can use. Use lumber and frame up 2 rigid floating walls in the corner to form a 'box'. Close the two open sides you just created in, using Poly Panda film.

You now have a tent for cheap, built to your size.

CFL's may be a better option. They will get you the spectrum you need, since you will not be able to afford LED it sounds like.

Plug in a surge protector, wa-la, 5 more outlets. The 20amp service is plenty.

If you can't set up and exhaust, you are going to need a way to remove heat. Some kind of air circulation.

 

[Stress_test]

You could put a shelf in the closet and split it for a nursery.
A vent could easily be put into the ceiling and floor for circulation. You won't have much heat build up using CFL's and top/bottom vents should easily deal with that.
Additional power could be dropped by a cord, if needed.

Then choose a strain that doesn't grow really tall.

 

[cali2]

Coco is easy but soil is less involved. Get a good soil and you will spend a lot less on nuts than coco. I'd say do a few runs with soil than graduate to coco if you still want to. I've used ocean forest fox farm soil with minimal nutes and have got great results.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

There may be a thread or two at the following link that will answer some of the questions you have.

A Library of Links
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=97792

hth!

Just a thought, but is there anyone you trust enough to tell what you're wanting to do? A violation of the no tell rule, but, if so, maybe they would be willing to pay your up front costs and in exchange you can give them a portion of the first harvest or two or whatever is agreed to.

Namaste

 

[Anti]

If you grow with CFL you're going to want to do something like a SOG of small plants. CFL don't have a ton of penetration, so if you grow 3 ft tall plants you're going to have bare branches on the bottom 1.5 ft... wasted space.

I'd get a mom going and clone the hell out of her and then flip your clones to 12/12 about a week after they root. Keep the CFLs within a few inches of the tops if you can.

You'd be better off having multiple levels of 12"-18" plants rather than 1 level with 36" plants.

Take a look at my link if you need ideas for exhaust or examples of CFL grown herb.

 

[statusquo]

Never buy cheap LED's from ebay. There is absolutely no quality control and most of the LED's (in general actually) aren't made very well. There are a few OK ones but all of them lack the necessary spectral quality, penetration etc to do what they claim. That being said there is no way I will argue that the lights aren't way more efficient watt per watt compared to a HID. Also, with many LED's the heat claims are over-exaggerated; they are all cooler than HIDs but many think they are like low-wattage flouros that basically produce 0 heat.

In terms of Metric to US. If you go to google you can type "x units to y units" and it will give you an answer right away. This works for any unit. cubic yards to cubic feet, gigabytes to megabytes, cc's to tablespoons etc.

Coco is doable but requires more attention than soil. It can be re-used though and tends to produce a better root zone than soil in a standard pot (smart pots and air pots produce similar results to coco IME).

Lastly, I understand budget constraints but some food for thought: it's better to buy a legit more expensive product once than have to deal with replacing shit products in the middle of your grow. Another way to think about it is if you buy a $25 HPS instead of an $80 one that is way better, you might save $55 off the bat but who knows, your yield might be an extra 5 oz. (extreme example and I'm not saying this is the case but I'm sure you get it). Anyways good luck and I'm glad you have come here to help in the cultivation of your meds! I'm sorry about your glaucoma

 

[Corvette Doc]

DaPurps,

The area i was looking at growing in has 3 solid walls to the ceiling already. It was going to be a closet after regional building said i couldn't use the space for a shower stall because of the outside wall issue and needing an access to the Tub's wiring i couldn't run water through the other 2 walls...the codes are kinda nuts here. I built the upstairs add-on back in 2003. My (now ex) wanted the hot tub in exchange for using most of the add-on for a pool table and game room. Since she left i haven't even plugged the tub in. The 3 walls are flat white with a white tile floor(blue accents). I never would have imagined that i would concider growing weed again back when i built this.
The power strips are a given since i can only get to the 2 plugs/1 out-let in there.
I was SERIOUSLY leaning toward CFLs as it is. I already have about 7-8 spots/reflectors in several sizes from when my dad did photography untill he passed in 95. I am just way too lost on what kind of bulbs to buy for them.
I have been thinking of maybe building a false ceiling just in that area to ventilate through, but the only place i could run it would be back into the bathroom. That just seems like it wouldn't work too well as i look at it??? Will that give enough exchange as some of the exhaust is certain to get fed back in from below?


Stress_test,

A cord is not an option. It is in a bath-room and the outlet i will be using is the only one there. I am trying to figure out how in the world i could run another branch from the sub panel box since it is in the next room. I would need to stay with-in codes and don't want to redo much drywall. That would probably be the only way i could ever start doing hydroponics in this space.
I am fuzzy about seeing a way that a shelf could work above the main growing area. That is kinda why i thought i would ask for ideas on how to build up the space more like a cabinet for growing... to get an idea on how to build stuff in there right from the start. And then i seem to be back to a false ceiling for exhaust.
Strains of plants is going to be a problem. I am dependent on what seeds are available from friend's bags. No clear idea of what it is till it grows. Even though i am legal to grow there is no way to order seeds in the USA due to laws that other countries don't have about shipping seeds. The doctor says i should be smoking sativa during the day and indica at night...what wasn't mentioned was how in the world to determine an exact strain of each before buying it by just looking at it and depending on some-else's given name for it??? Add to that how to get it when broke??? Time to grow my own.


cali2,

Thank-you for the heads-up on coco. I will reserve that option for later crops. Unfortunately i haven't heard of the soil you mention before. I am kinda stuck with what potting soil is available at wal-mart, lowes, home-depot, or k-mart. Any idea how to use one of theirs and/or what i should add?

messn'n'gommin',

Looks like a few more days reading ahead of me there. Thanks for pointing that thread out...never would have found it on my own.
I don't think i am going to get any help from any-one on this. But the few i have asked already sure do want me to put their name down as my caregiver so they can have up to 2 OZs and 6 plants them-selves...

Anti,
I respect the fact that you are a good grower. You seem to have some good crops under your belt. But i can not go SOG unless i can find solid legal presidents that tell the authorities that a bunch of clones are still just 1 plant. My license to posses and grow only allows me 3 mature plants and 3 small plants (the Colorado legislature's wording there, that is CONFUSING). So i do not dare grow more than 6 plants. I did 2 months in jail for drag racing, eluding and driving under suspension a couple of decades ago...don't want to go back there. See next on take for lighting.

statusquo,
I think that what i was thinking on LEDs is not clear. I was thinking of using 4 CFLS mounted in corners at 45* angle down onto plants. Then add 1 or 2 cheap LEDs mounted inches above plants just to add more spectrum. I was thinking that maybe this would/could get enough correct lighting onto them to get a good growth and budding. Everything i read on this site seems to indicate that neither CFLs nor LEDs get enough light by them selves...even with good high dollar units. So is there a chance that using cheep LEDs in conjunction with the CFLs could be enough extra to make it work? In all my searching i have only seen one grow using both on u-tube and he didn't explain anything. The other idea was to run 4 foot tubes vertically in each corner instead of CFLs and still add some kind of LEDs.
I seriously understand what you are saying about starting out with better equipment. I truly wish that i had enough resources to start up with the best of everthing...alas, my current situation will not allow for that. Unless you know some-one who wants to buy a super custom 87 Corvette for $27K. Believe me i would sell it to bail me out of my current predicament. The current economy has seriously put a strangle hold on me.

Thank-you all for taking the time to help advise me on getting this area set-up to grow in.
I came across a mylar coated fabric on ebay. Was wondering if that might make a good door for the open front of this space??? Or would i be better off building a solid door?

 

[Protea]

I tend to fuck tings up when i am doing handyman/building things, so i will not advise nothing about it.
but i am a new grower, who have to do all by my self. i deffinitly would start whit soil, but i would eventualy start doing it hydro. somehow.
will keep an eye on this tread, and feel free to ask any thing

 

[SmilinBob]

If you're a DIYer you can get a workhorse 8, 6 t5 ho bulbs, and sockets for less than $80 on 1000bulbs.

 

[AladdinSane]

There is no way that i can afford $100+ on any light.

If you have a small amount of mechanical skill, you can build a 400w Hid for less than $100, including reflector.

You can purchase your bulb, ballast, and the mogul socket from "1000 bulbs dot com" for about $85.00 total. The mogul can be attached to a small piece of wood, like a three inch piece of common 1X2 inch pine, using 2 inch deck or drywall screws. Be sure and make starter holes with a finishing nail, and use a screwdriver to gently screw them in...don't power em in with your drill lol!

Swing down to the grocer and purchase a disposable turkey roasting pan, that's your $1.98 reflector $$$$$

Set it up vertical (make sure your bulb is either "universal" or "base up" designated, if using halide make sure and get the "compact envelope" style) by just screwing a cuphook into the opposite side of the wood block from the socket, after centering the turkey pan over it. Screw right through the pan into the wood.

Poke a little hole in the pan to push the leads through, and wirenut them onto your power wires from the ballast. You can buy a cheap shop extension cord at home depot ($7.95), cut it in two pieces of the proper length for your setup, wire the male chunk to the bulb, the female chunk to the ballast. Now you can easily unhook the bulb/reflector piece from the ballast for transport.

Hang cuphook from chain/rope/cable whatever. Plug together. Power on.

Your socket probably has 15 amps from the box. Just put a power strip on it for the extra cords. You won't be exceeding 15 amps anytime soon, probably.

Bingo! Works absolutely awesome in a 31 X 31 inch space...or so I've heard

 

[messn'n'gommin']

The basics of basic growing, as I see it:

1) Start cheap, start small! If you're just getting started, bagseed, soil or Hempy's, flouro's or small wattage HID and a plant or three in a small cab is good. If you have any kind of gardening experience, all the better! But, there isn't all that much of a learning curve to growing weed. However, it is a bit more so when learning to grow great weed. As you gain experience, so will the quality and quantity. Be patient and have faith in yourself!

2) Ventilation! Probably the single most troublesome aspect to growing indoors. Not just for cooling, but just as importantly, for odor control. Just because you're legal, doesn't mean no one will come through your backdoor, whether or not you're even home!

Most everything else will flow from that.

hth

 

[qbert]

You'd be better off having multiple levels of 12"-18" plants rather than 1 level with 36" plants.

Yes, you've got good height. Split it into a couple levels.

If you're a DIYer you can get a workhorse 8, 6 t5 ho bulbs, and sockets for less than $80 on 1000bulbs.

I'd recommend the 55w PL-L's. 4100k's spectrum should be fine to go start to finish. There's kits with reflectors available too. That's a quick and very effective way to outfit a space with potent CFL's. But still get the bulbs from 100bulbs, they're cheaper and better quality than ahsupply's. I'd put some on the ceiling and walls. That'll really light up your space.

 

[HopefulNewb]

For someone new inside, I'd definitely GO with coco/perilite mix... or just pure coco.

#1 - It holds water but it's near impossible to overwater coco,

#2 - Nutrients aren't really expensive, look at the K.I.S.S method under the nut/fert subsection forum... 1 tsp per gallon of water, a 2.2lb bag will take care of many plants for entire cycle and you spend like 12.50 on it.

#3 - Led's seem too shady right now, and they're still working out spectrum/bands and ideal combinations. You can get a HPS enhanced spectrum bulb that also has blue/violet range and can use it from veg till bloom.

Keep researching and reading....

 

[grasspass]

If your medical and an everyday smoker, I would get at least a 400 watt hps to get enough yield. Don't think your going to get 1 gram per watt until you are very experienced . I'm a newb with almost 6 grows and have never been able to get even 1/2 gram per watt, yet. [maybe this time ,first time with coco hempy buckets and they are going way better than the soil grows.] If you don't have a carbon scrubber, only choose super low odor strains! I brought ONE fresh bud of [diesel x yumbolt] into my living space and it stunk up the house!.

 

[Corvette Doc]

Protea,
I feel for ya on the DIY stuff. I was like that untill i got in there and started doing it...on the house anyway. Still leaning toward coco but keep thinking soil might be better.

SmilinBob, AladdinSane, qbert,
Thanks for the info guys. I still question the heat build-up of HIDs. Adding extra ventilation and power, and other stuff is probably going to eat-up more money than just the lights. I don't have much i can budget toward this. If i go over budget i risk loosing too much.

messn'n'gommin',
I think that i am going to take your advice to the next level. Instead of jumping in to grow right away i think i will take the next 5-6 weeks to build up a good cabinet for the space with vents. I do not feel that spending another $100 on a filter (and having to get a larger duct fan for reduced flow) is worth the investment.
I doubt that there is still any-one left in this town willing to risk breaking into my house. The couple that have tried can't any more.

HopefulNewb,
I have read several threads on coco...That is why i am still leaning more toward it.
I couldn't find anything with a good description about the KISS method you mention. Could you post a descriptive link please? I know in car building it stands for; Keep It Simple Stupid. From what i have read they just changed the last word???

grasspass,
For right now i am just going to grow to learn the techniques. I am not going to need much for my-self and have ZERO intention of ever selling any. I am looking for a cheap way to get me some buds...hopefully, in time, some GREAT buds. And the satisfaction of saying i grew it myself.

Thank-you every-one for helping. Please chime in if you have more to add. I will be looking at this for help over the next month or so. Hopefully i will have plants growing in Febuary.

 

[AladdinSane]

Thanks for the info guys. I still question the heat build-up of HIDs.

They are hot. Eventually though you're going to find that CFL lights lead to leggy plants and unsatisfying yields. Then there's the fact that a CFL bulb...of which you'll need many...cost a lot of money compared to a $10 400w HPS bulb.

In the long run, buying a fan and some hose will be a better deal. In my case I use a bathroom, and I never wanted to shell out for the price of the axial exhaust fans. But one day I saw a 6" axial fan for under $100. It was the basic design of all the ones you see here, but all plastic, and some kind of "metric" fan that was more like 5" than 6". 425 cfm, with two speeds. Cheap. Quiet. Very good deal.

I used a 5-to-4 reducer to connect the suction to the regular bathroom fan-with-light unit that was already in the ceiling of my bathroom, and it justs exhausts right into the attic there where I mounted it. I pulled the craptastic obnoxious noisy to drown out a B-52 fan from the bathroom fan unit, and used those wires to power the new fan. The new fan exhausts across the ballasts for my lights, which I put on a piece of ceramic tile up there, unenclosed. They never get more than warm, and they never hum, and they're iron core transformer-with-capacitor-and-ignitor crap that only cost $45 each.

I did have to pull an electric run up to the attic for the ballasts, but that's not really hard or expensive. You can Google for how to install a breaker and pull an electric run. In my case, and very likely yours as well, all the wiring from your circuit box already goes to the attic first on its way to the rooms. It's no trick to shove one more strand up there, and you don't have to snake it down into any walls.

As for cooling the herbage, I use a 10" oscillating fan on low speed. Just some relic that was laying around my place. Pulled the shroud off the back, cleaned it all up from the centuries of dust, lubed everything that looks like it could move with some silicone spray. It makes no sound whatsoever, and pushes air all over. Between that and the 425cfm exhaust, heat is not a problem whatsoever, and I live in the deep South and there's no insulation or air conditiong in my grow room. Smelly exhaust exits the attic through the ridge vents on the roof. No smell at ground level.

But, it's good to learn all these things for yourself. Wisdom is a dish you have to taste personally

 

[ThePizzaMan]

If you are going to be a long time user of cannabis for your glaucoma...I would try and set up a Homebox L with a 600, and just grow like 5-6 5 gallon buckets in coco....

Reservoir, Dutchgrown genetics come highly recommended. You are in a MMJ state, so your dispensaries will have tons of good clones too choose from ..which should make it a really fun time.

This is the kind of hobby that pays dividends. Once you start..you will want to be constantly upgrading...so do it right the first time. You are going to have to spend at least $600 to get the proper equipment..but that is nominal to the amount of $$$ you will be saving in medicine.

6in fan, 600w HPS light, coco, nutes, ducting, tent, timers....other little miscellaneous items. Get the stuff now...because you don't want to be worrying about shit and running around like a chicken with his head cut off mid grow. You just don't need that kind of stress.

If you are looking for a cheap, reputable dealer online...go here to get the lights at the very least.

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/

They have the absolutely lowest prices anywhere...and offer honest and quick service.

Good luck!

 

[AladdinSane]

You are going to have to spend at least $600 to get the proper equipment

And this is the trap everyone faces. I don't think I've spent $600 in my entire *lifetime* of growing.

You think Christmas is commercialized? Please.

We now behold the new reality, wherein a pernicious weed that can't be effectively suppressed by Agent Orange in the American heartland....suddenly costs $600 dollars to grow properly. I tremble to think how much a serious plant like tomatoes might someday cost, if pot-growers grew attached to it. "Yo, dude, check out the globes on this beotch, man! This is some serious 'mater here, brutha! You think this is good red, check out the thread for MarinaraWhore's 57,000 watt auto-watered hydro growzilla! And dude, don't use peat moss man, if you ain't growing in gold-plated peanut shells...you suck!"

My grandpa smoked homegrown MJ his entire life. My uncle harvested literally *tons* of K-weed from the ditches of Kansas and Missouri, for free.

You do not need to spend a dime to grow "medical grade" (what a laugh...Father Murphy used to always say his little flask of Brandy was for medicinal purposes)...or any other grade of MJ in this country. You can, but you don't need to.

If you want a reputeable light dealer, go here http://www.1000bulbs.com/?gclid=COTzw_e396UCFYde7AodXBOqow

P.S.

This entire blog is run by a seed company. I would never suggest that a totally honest and above-board seed company would *ever* be in the business of encouraging people to spend their hard-earned dollars on all their friends in the industry. Nope. I'd never say that, for how could I possibly know?

And seriously, how stupid is it, really, to think that one commercial entity in the industry would be so callous as to try to encourage newbies to impoverish themselves for no purpose other than the enrichment of those who make their livings selling pot-growing technology? How stupid is that? I'm not that stupid. I'd never say that.

There's no way in hell that anyone here would ever do such a thing.

 

[Corvette Doc]

AladdinSane,

Thank-you for keeping some perspective to things. But unfortunately his estimate might not be all that high. Remember that i am starting with NOTHING to build up a good grow area. I still need to buy nutes (KISS is even $60 for the 2), Ph tester and adjusters, still not sure what sizes of pots to use, Lights, now exhaust and filter, a good therm/humidy reader, the cab itself, and who knows what i am forgetting. If i get all of this done for $500 i will be suprised.
Even though i know a little about wiring and building i end up getting totaly lost looking through the 1000bulbs site. I pretty much need someone to guide me by the nose as to exactly what all to get to have a complete kit, then some more in depth description on assembly. I don't want to burn the house down out of ignorance on that point...or by running an out of code branch out the space.