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blowing or sucking?
- Thread starter mrgrowmez
- Start date
Really depends on the type of scrubber you're using and the thickness of the walls or layers of carbon. I haven't read any versus type threads between say a scrubber box and a scrubber can but it seems like a scrubber can, working more air per square inch would be the best bet. I mean, you can always put one on both ends. From what I understand though, it is best for your fan to suck rather than blow.
Merman
Active member
Doesn't make any difference, the workload on the fan is the same either direction. It really only depends on the length and diameter of the ducting, and the resistance related to the size and diameter of the carbon filter.
There are some kinds of fans that are designed specifically to be used in one direction only, but almost all "inline" fans are not.
Blowing or sucking through a long, narrow diameter duct will increase the workload (and fan noise).... the shorter and larger the ducting, the easier it is on the fan. That's all there is to it. Try this experiment.... attempt to breath normally through a drinking straw (not easy), then try to breath through the cardboard tube that toilet paper rolls come on. Doesn't make any difference whether you are breathing in or out......
Some folks don't like blowing 'cause powdery bits of charcoal will blow around if you don't have some kind of additional filter wrapped around the carbon filter casing.
Is that a six-inch inline fan? Then get six-inch ducting (for both intake and output) and a six-inch carbon filter. If you have passive air intakes, I recommend the area to be twice your output. Assume your output is approx. 36 square inches (its less because is a circle, but whatever), your passive intake area should be 72 square inches (6"x12", 8x9, 4x18, or anything that fits your cab).
Also worth the investment is a good quality fan speed controller so you can dial in your airflow for temperature and humidity adjustment. You may not need all those CFM's for air exchange and cab cooling.
There are some kinds of fans that are designed specifically to be used in one direction only, but almost all "inline" fans are not.
Blowing or sucking through a long, narrow diameter duct will increase the workload (and fan noise).... the shorter and larger the ducting, the easier it is on the fan. That's all there is to it. Try this experiment.... attempt to breath normally through a drinking straw (not easy), then try to breath through the cardboard tube that toilet paper rolls come on. Doesn't make any difference whether you are breathing in or out......
Some folks don't like blowing 'cause powdery bits of charcoal will blow around if you don't have some kind of additional filter wrapped around the carbon filter casing.
Is that a six-inch inline fan? Then get six-inch ducting (for both intake and output) and a six-inch carbon filter. If you have passive air intakes, I recommend the area to be twice your output. Assume your output is approx. 36 square inches (its less because is a circle, but whatever), your passive intake area should be 72 square inches (6"x12", 8x9, 4x18, or anything that fits your cab).
Also worth the investment is a good quality fan speed controller so you can dial in your airflow for temperature and humidity adjustment. You may not need all those CFM's for air exchange and cab cooling.
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G
Guest
Hello everyone.....
Hello everyone.....
I have 1- 8in pushing air out through a 10in duct into a 10in can filter that is over rated for the fan. I think this keeps it quieter because less work load and turbulance. The bigger can definately decreases the work load, by increasing the surface area the gases have to diffuse through.
I just wired an outlet plug in to a single pole light dimmer. Works like a charm. I didn't think I needed to wire in a therostat because I want constant air movement in and out of the room. The dimmer also allows me to run the fan at a much lower rate than it is rated for. Cuts the nose level way down. Everything should last me years because everything is working half or less than rated.
I do have 4- 4in intake tubes that disburse the air evenly. I take my CO2 delivery hose and stick it in the intake tubes and the air mixes with the CO2 as it comes in. Easy as pie.
I have heard that it is better to push the air than pull. To use the straw analogy... It is easier to blow air through a small straw than it is to suck it, but not sure of the physics.
Peace
Hello everyone.....
I have 1- 8in pushing air out through a 10in duct into a 10in can filter that is over rated for the fan. I think this keeps it quieter because less work load and turbulance. The bigger can definately decreases the work load, by increasing the surface area the gases have to diffuse through.
I just wired an outlet plug in to a single pole light dimmer. Works like a charm. I didn't think I needed to wire in a therostat because I want constant air movement in and out of the room. The dimmer also allows me to run the fan at a much lower rate than it is rated for. Cuts the nose level way down. Everything should last me years because everything is working half or less than rated.
I do have 4- 4in intake tubes that disburse the air evenly. I take my CO2 delivery hose and stick it in the intake tubes and the air mixes with the CO2 as it comes in. Easy as pie.
I have heard that it is better to push the air than pull. To use the straw analogy... It is easier to blow air through a small straw than it is to suck it, but not sure of the physics.
Peace
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mrgrowmez
Member
cheers guys ,
merman - is there a formula for carbon scrubber surface area to fan CFM or intake surface area?
im going to build my own scrubber, so should i build one with a overall surface area of 72 square inches or larger? im thinking this double surface area applies here as well as to the passive intakes.
Bree - i have heard bad things about using a light dimmer on your fan....heres a link that explains why....good luck
merman - is there a formula for carbon scrubber surface area to fan CFM or intake surface area?
im going to build my own scrubber, so should i build one with a overall surface area of 72 square inches or larger? im thinking this double surface area applies here as well as to the passive intakes.
Bree - i have heard bad things about using a light dimmer on your fan....heres a link that explains why....good luck
G
Guest
well here's my .02 ...i have never run a scrubber with blowing INTO it, so i can't say it's bad or anything, but it's not ideal because air can escape through tiny pin size holes anywhere along the ducting... the idea with sucking is all the air is being pulled, and therfor can not escape and stink... IMO you would get better airflow over the carbon for more effectivness by pulling air thru it...whatever you choose to do, keep us informed of how it works, thanks bud
Merman
Active member
mrgrowmez: I'm sure there's a formula out there... but I don't know it.
Bree: mrgrowmez is absolutely right about the light dimmer.... buy a good quality fan speed controller from your local hydro shop. They are about $20-30, but well worth the investment, and will last forever.
Almost all the commercial fan and filter companies have a rating on the fan/filter for size and CFM, do a little research on the Elicient, CAN, or Vortex site and I'm sure there will be some kind of rating or info. I bet you can produce a DIY carbon filter with the same dimensions and get good results (or just cough up the dough for a ready made refillable filter that will last forever, its worth the $ IMO).
Like this from the CAN-fiters site. This is info for the CAN-150, looks like it goes with a minimum 8" fan with a CFM rating of 898....?
Max cfm: 1260/2100m³/h
@ 0.1 sec contact time
Recommended Min Airflow: 630 cfm <<<<<<<<here you go!
Prefilter: Yes
Flange: 8, 10 &12"
Dimensions: (with pre-filter) <<<<<<<and here....
Outside Diameter: 420mm/16.5"
Height: 1500mm/60"
Total Weight: 71kg/156lbs
Carbon Weight: 56kg/123lbs
Carbon Bed Depth: 65mm/2.56" <<<<<<<even tells you how much carbon to use!
Max Operating Temp: 80ºC
Pressure drop at max cfm: 180pa/ .75wg
Recommended Can-Fan: <<<<<<<<<maybe this?
FAN Filtered Air CFM
RS12HO 898
killacron: I hear ya with the ducting leak factor, but its not a problem if you're set up like this:
You could run that 4" ducting to the next room (or the attic) if you wanted to, remembering that the longer it gets, the more workload on the fan. I don't like to use flexible ducting because the ridges interfere with air flow. I just use 4" pipe (white PVC or black ABS), with a plumbing flange to hook it up to the fan.
Good Luck!
Bree: mrgrowmez is absolutely right about the light dimmer.... buy a good quality fan speed controller from your local hydro shop. They are about $20-30, but well worth the investment, and will last forever.
Almost all the commercial fan and filter companies have a rating on the fan/filter for size and CFM, do a little research on the Elicient, CAN, or Vortex site and I'm sure there will be some kind of rating or info. I bet you can produce a DIY carbon filter with the same dimensions and get good results (or just cough up the dough for a ready made refillable filter that will last forever, its worth the $ IMO).
Like this from the CAN-fiters site. This is info for the CAN-150, looks like it goes with a minimum 8" fan with a CFM rating of 898....?
Max cfm: 1260/2100m³/h
@ 0.1 sec contact time
Recommended Min Airflow: 630 cfm <<<<<<<<here you go!
Prefilter: Yes
Flange: 8, 10 &12"
Dimensions: (with pre-filter) <<<<<<<and here....
Outside Diameter: 420mm/16.5"
Height: 1500mm/60"
Total Weight: 71kg/156lbs
Carbon Weight: 56kg/123lbs
Carbon Bed Depth: 65mm/2.56" <<<<<<<even tells you how much carbon to use!
Max Operating Temp: 80ºC
Pressure drop at max cfm: 180pa/ .75wg
Recommended Can-Fan: <<<<<<<<<maybe this?
FAN Filtered Air CFM
RS12HO 898
killacron: I hear ya with the ducting leak factor, but its not a problem if you're set up like this:
You could run that 4" ducting to the next room (or the attic) if you wanted to, remembering that the longer it gets, the more workload on the fan. I don't like to use flexible ducting because the ridges interfere with air flow. I just use 4" pipe (white PVC or black ABS), with a plumbing flange to hook it up to the fan.
Good Luck!
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G
Guest
Thanks guys for the info. I will check into the fan controler
Thanks guys for the info. I will check into the fan controler
It was too simple to be that easy.....Off to look for a fan controller
Peace
Thanks guys for the info. I will check into the fan controler
It was too simple to be that easy.....Off to look for a fan controller
Peace
mrgrowmez
Member
Merman - thanks for takin the time to look that can fan up, i get my camera back when i go to the inlaws for xmas so ill take some pictures and post em up to show how it all works out.
I agree with you about the flexible ducting, I have sourced a good length of 6 inch metal ducting from a building site and some connectors. I wanted 45degree connectors but i could only find curved 90degree ones but hell! cant complain it was free.
Bree hope you dont have to fork out too much for your controller but it will definetley make your fan last longer. peace
K1llaKr0n thanks for the advice. I just found a vase today which is perfect to use for a cooltube so i might end up sticking the carbon scrubber on the blowing end after all.
thanks all again
growmez
I agree with you about the flexible ducting, I have sourced a good length of 6 inch metal ducting from a building site and some connectors. I wanted 45degree connectors but i could only find curved 90degree ones but hell! cant complain it was free.
Bree hope you dont have to fork out too much for your controller but it will definetley make your fan last longer. peace
K1llaKr0n thanks for the advice. I just found a vase today which is perfect to use for a cooltube so i might end up sticking the carbon scrubber on the blowing end after all.
thanks all again
growmez
Okay so can any of you that talked about using a fan speed controller, how do you wire the speed controller into the fan. I tried it on a couple of my in-line fans and even when it was turned up all the way the fan never ran full speed, is this what happens when you hook up a speed controller?
Merman
Active member
Ganoderma/mrgrowmez: Make sure to get one like this:
This is a variable speed blower control. The red switch is either 'FULL' or 'VARIABLE'. On the variable setting you use the knob to adjust the speed. Just plug in your fan at the bottom. Works like a charm!
I found with a quick Google search, this was from 'Discount Hydroponics' for $29.00 US. Worth the investment...!
This is a variable speed blower control. The red switch is either 'FULL' or 'VARIABLE'. On the variable setting you use the knob to adjust the speed. Just plug in your fan at the bottom. Works like a charm!
I found with a quick Google search, this was from 'Discount Hydroponics' for $29.00 US. Worth the investment...!
G
Guest
Merman...
Merman...
How does that controller work any different than a unipolar dimmer switch and a socket?
Peace
Merman...
How does that controller work any different than a unipolar dimmer switch and a socket?
Peace
Merman
Active member
Bree: Wish I had a good answer for ya! Maybe there's an electrician out there who can tell us the difference. It sure is easy to switch on to full vs. variable or off quickly. The one I have is rated for 20amps, my entire cab electrical system is on a dedicated 20amp arc fault breaker (better than ground fault breaker).
I think it might have something to with this type of controller maintaining the proper amperage/watts/volt to the fan so it doesn't burn out. Of those three items (amp/watts/volts) I really don't know which one is reduced.
I'll search around and see what I can find....
I think it might have something to with this type of controller maintaining the proper amperage/watts/volt to the fan so it doesn't burn out. Of those three items (amp/watts/volts) I really don't know which one is reduced.
I'll search around and see what I can find....
mrgrowmez
Member
well i got this one
well i got this one
i picked this fan speed controller and hooked it up tonight..it should give me 99% but i cant kick the feeling that it should be going faster..dont know probably just my brain...i dont want to disconnect it and then hook it up again thats for sure. already did it twice because of some stupid stoner mistake. looks good now though
cheers growmez
well i got this one
i picked this fan speed controller and hooked it up tonight..it should give me 99% but i cant kick the feeling that it should be going faster..dont know probably just my brain...i dont want to disconnect it and then hook it up again thats for sure. already did it twice because of some stupid stoner mistake. looks good now though
cheers growmez
