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Big Brother Is Watching

vta

Active member
Veteran

BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING


How would you feel if someone planted a GPS device under your car when it was parked in your driveway and afterward tracked your travels? Does it change your answer if the GPS installer is the government? What if the car owner is a suspected marijuana grower?

GPS Planted

A drug enforcement agent ( DEA ) just happened to notice Juan Pineda-Moreno purchase a large quantity of fertilizer from a Home Depot. The agent was hanging in the fertilizer aisle? Per the court, it was the type of fertilizer frequently used to grow marijuana. How do they know that? Is the bag labeled "Perfect for Marijuana?"

Afterward, the DEA agents installed a GPS device on the underside of Pineda-Moreno's 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee -- on seven different occasions, sometimes when the vehicle was parked on a public street, but on two occasions when the Jeep was parked in Pineda-Moreno's driveway, a few feet from the side of his trailer.

Arrest and Conviction

Information from the mobile tracking devices led to Pineda-Moreno's arrest and conditional guilty plea, reserving the right to appeal and suppress the evidence obtained by the GPS devices.

The three-judge Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals upheld the conviction finding that although the Jeep was parked within the "curtilage" of his home ( the area closely around his home ), the driveway was only a semi-private area frequented by newspaper delivery boys ( when was the last time you saw one of them? ), repairmen and neighborhood kids, so Pineda-Moreno had no reasonable expectation of privacy. Attaching the devices while the Jeep was in the driveway was not a search nor a violation of Fourth Amendment rights.

Passionate Dissent

The full panel of the federal Ninth Circuit denied to re-hear the matter "en banc."

The Ronald Reagan-appointed, conservative Chief Judge of the Ninth Circuit, Alex Kozinski, wrote a blistering dissent -- taking on the government.

Judge Kozinski is brilliant and passionate. If you are a libertarian or concerned about government intrusion in our lives, read his dissent, portions quoted below:

"Our court now proceeds to dismantle the zone of privacy we enjoy in the home's curtilage and in public. The needs of law enforcement, to which my colleagues seem inclined to refuse nothing, are quickly making personal privacy a distant memory, 1984 may have come a bit later than predicted, but it's here at last.

"The very rich will still be able to protect their privacy with the aid of electric gates, tall fences, security booths, remote cameras, motion sensors, and roving patrols, but the vast majority of the 60 million people living in the Ninth Circuit will see their privacy materially diminished by the panel's ruling.

"There has been much talk about diversity on the bench, but there is one kind of diversity that doesn't exist: No truly poor people are appointed as federal judges, or state judges for that matter.

"By holding that this kind of surveillance doesn't impair an individual's reasonable expectation of privacy, the panel hands the government the power to track the movements of every one of us, every day of our lives.

"In determining whether the tracking devices used in Pineda-Moreno's case violate the Fourth Amendment's guarantee of personal privacy, we may not shut our eyes to the fact that they are just advance ripples to a tidal wave of technological assaults on our privacy.

"Companies are amassing huge, ready-made databases of where we've all been. If, as the panel holds, we have no privacy interest in where we go, then the government can mine these databases without warrant, indeed without suspicion whatsoever.

"I don't think that most people in the United States would agree with the panel that someone who leaves his car parked in his driveway outside the door of his home invites people to crawl under it and attach a device that will track the vehicle's every movement and transmit that information to total strangers. There is something creepy and un-American about such clandestine and underhanded behavior. To those of us who have lived under a totalitarian regime, there is an eerie feeling of deja vu. This case, if any, deserves the comprehensive, mature and diverse consideration that an en banc panel can provide. We are taking a giant leap into the unknown, and the consequences for ourselves and our children may be dire and irreversible. Some day, soon, we may wake up and find we're living in Oceania."

This case most assuredly is heading to the U.S. Supreme Court. I will go out on a limb and predict the conservative U.S. Supreme Court will uphold the DEA.

Source: Sierra Sun (Truckee, CA)
Author: Jim Porter
Note: Jim Porter is an attorney with Porter Simon, with offices in
Truckee, South Lake Tahoe, Incline Village and Reno. He is a mediator
and was the Governor's appointee to the Fair Political Practices
Commission and McPherson Commission, both involving election law and
the Political Reform Act.
 

VirginHarvester

Active member
Veteran
This case most assuredly is heading to the U.S. Supreme Court. I will go out on a limb and predict the conservative U.S. Supreme Court will uphold the DEA.

Any precedent you can cite? Conservative means protecting our rights against illegal intrusion from the government. It's very liberal to grant the government this kind of authority.

As an aside, I want us to grant our govt the right to use technology in cases of true national security and buying a lot of fertilizer could be an issue. But this is a DEA agent for crying out loud, not Dept of Homeland Security.
 

spurr

Active member
Veteran
Yea that sucks.

However, it's not legal from them to place a GPS unit if you have a fence or gate blocking your driveway access to your care, so, rich people get off again. The argument is that if normal people (like the pizza guy, newspaper boy, mailman, etc) have unobstructed access to your car than LEO is allowed to place GPS units on them. I guess that means we should setup kiddy gates around our cars! Serously, any el' cheop fence, even chicken wire with some ghetto gate so you can drive in, should suffice to stop LEO from placing GPS at on your care at your home. And make sure to take video and pics of the gate so you can prove it.

That said, a gate around your house doesn't stop them from placing GPS on your vehicle when your out in public; I guess that means we all need have two cars, one for grow store runs we leave behind a fence and one for normal stuff.

Sad info for sure.
 

spurr

Active member
Veteran
what I want to know is who the hell buys ferts at home depot!?! Wouldn't want to smoke his buds being fed Miracle Grow!
 
E

emerald city

Boy i would have my laywer all over the interpitation of the "curtilage" law..I believe the laws that apply vary state by state ....Guess it would depend on where you live, and if there was commen area involved...Was he living in a trailer park where one could expect not to have much visual privacy outside the trailer??
I thought the curtilage law allowed LEO to collect infomation on a person/case from any puplic vantage point around the subjects property...LEO would still need permission to use a neighbors property before they could set up said survailence....Basicly anything that can be seen or heard from any adjoining area is fair game.....I cant see how any law enforcement without a warrent can do anything...........E.C
At my personal home,I-live in the woods, my whole property is barbed wired,german shepherds running through out the yard,gated driveway.If you dont call your treated like your not invited....Round here we expect our privacy..Maine-the way life should be.
 
WOW! That is really a very sad story, Stories like this are becoming all to common these days,. With so many states making huge strides towards legalizing marijuana, unfortunately, they are in the minority.

If that does not violate the 4th Amendment, then nothing does.. I love how in this country, WE elect, and give the power to the more fortunate, the rich. Its no secret that rich people simply do not care about the "smaller guy", they are in it for themselves, and we the people continue to feed their egos every few years, with a yes vote. I'm literally so sick and tired of reading bullshit like this, in every newspaper around the country.

Stories like this should not be.
 
O

onehitjake

They have our balls, our minds, our beliefs, our ideals, our thoughts, our bravado, our liberty(to save freedom), and our pride. They let us keep our Apathy.
 
C

CANNATOPIA

I see them running into a lot of dead ends with this Idea lol. still sucks though.
 
C

CANNATOPIA

I also don't believe we need all these cars in the first place. I don't know how many 16 year olds turds ive seen driving hummers & money pits. I am all for public Transit, Bikes & scooters.Two of which I can keep inside my house lol. As george says They call it the American Dream because ya have to be asleep to believe it. hehehe
 

ibjamming

Active member
Veteran
I hope you don't leave your cell phone turned on...talk about a perfect way to track you...

As long as that phone is turned on...your phone company knows exactly where you are.

Just saying...
 
Any precedent you can cite? Conservative means protecting our rights against illegal intrusion from the government. It's very liberal to grant the government this kind of authority.


Both politicians of conservative and liberal views have been taking away rights of Americans for decades.
 

VirginHarvester

Active member
Veteran
Both politicians of conservative and liberal views have been taking away rights of Americans for decades.

This I agree with, but I'm not naive enough to put it past Dems to steal from us. What's the first thing Obama did, grabbed THREE TRILLION dollars from the treasury and nothing to show for it.
 

supermanlives

Active member
Veteran
hmm i havent checked my vehicle for a while. i got a bug and gps detector years ago.my friend had a gps put on his car they did find it but by then it was too late . he got busted
 
This I agree with, but I'm not naive enough to put it past Dems to steal from us. What's the first thing Obama did, grabbed THREE TRILLION dollars from the treasury and nothing to show for it.

Honestly, it wouldn't matter who was president right now, things would still be in the shitter. Both parties have nickled and dimed this country into the brink and all most people do these days is declare themselves to be right about everything while everyone else is wrong.

This is how our rights can be taking away from us so easily because these idiots are allowed to distract our attention with bullshit while issues that everyone really should get pissed off, that normally go unnoticed. People want to get pissed off because some idiot pundit is spewing off an opinion, but no one raises an eyebrow when the U.S. Supreme Court rules that corporations are individual entities and are given rights as if they are.

If anything, I just want people to take their blinders off and realize that partisanship just adds to our loss of rights.

I only purchased a cellphone because the family I do have left, wants to keep in contact with me. Besides that, I always keep it turned off. Still having one year left of school, there isn't much I can do because universities operate like mini big-brothers.
 
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I personaly know someone sitting in prison right now becouse of a GPS placed on his vehicle by LEO. He was a drug addict and not to sharp but they still got him at a house he and his friends were blowing up for years.These guys were a local Drug task force that got him not Feds. So the moral to the story is this is real they are realy doing this to people and if you grow and have a facebook page it might as well be a bullseye.If you think you are smarter than drug interdiction task forces you are wrong.In the small town where I lived they literaly have nothing better to do they dont mess with the dope boys openly selling crack on the corner but they spend countless man hours and tax dollars to find out who that killer weed is coming from.I understand why growers want to stay where they are when you can get upwards of 6000 a pound before its even dry.The downside to that is they are actively looking for YOU and if they find you there are two choices you have- man up, keep your trap shut, and do 2-5 for cultivation and trafficing forever labeled a felon or give up your buddy.Thats it and unfotunately in alot if not most cases people snitch,at least where Im from in the south(as you can imagine the jails are no catwalk there)thats realy LEOs best weapon not GPS or wiretaps but loose lips.I you cant do the time dont do the crime.
 
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Feb2006er

Active member
I personaly know someone sitting in prison right now becouse of a GPS placed on his vehicle by LEO. He was a drug addict and not to sharp but they still got him at a house he and his friends were blowing up for years.These guys were a local Drug task force that got him not Feds. So the moral to the story is this is real they are realy doing this to people and if you grow and have a facebook page it might as well be a bullseye.If you think you are smarter than drug interdiction task forces you are wrong.In the small town where I lived they literaly have nothing better to do they dont mess with the dope boys openly selling crack on the corner but they spend countless man hours and tax dollars to find out who that killer weed is coming from.I understand why growers want to stay where they are when you can get upwards of 6000 a pound before its even dry.The downside to that is they are actively looking for YOU and if they find you there are two choices you have- man up, keep your trap shut, and do 2-5 for cultivation and trafficing forever labeled a felon or give up your buddy.Thats it and unfotunately in alot if not most cases people snitch,at least where Im from in the south(as you can imagine the jails are no catwalk there)thats realy LEOs best weapon not GPS or wiretaps but loose lips.I you cant do the time dont do the crime.

There are a lot of hard drug users in Athens who tend to end up out of jail a lot quicker than they should. They tend to group together and claim that their buddies aren't narcs even when they do less than a month while they were busted for felony drug charges and previous to that that hadn't been sentenced for selling drugs at a WSP show i.e. being out on their recognizance to try and bust people when they find their 7th felony drug charge. They were out on parole for their 5th felony in a 3 strike state when they got busted for felony #s 6 & and then 7. They attack people from behind like pussies. They jump the wrong people for robbing their house. They call themselves the mineral mafia. They put their dicks in bags of MDMA and offer it to one another to be funny(glad I don't eat XTC). They sell Heroin, Meth, Coke, Pharmies, Brown XTC, dirty LSD, horrible outdoor shwagg, super chemy tire fire harsh Ice Princess that tasted like miracle grow without a flush, and hay smelling wet beasters. As a direct result of them selling heroin and xanax at a dieselboy show someone died. Same kid who sold that kid the drugs beats on his GF. All in all those people are pieces of shit and deserve whatever they get to include their close junkie friends rolling on them to save their own asses. They get the karma that's deserved. They call innocent people narcs to cover their own confidential informing. Like flies on shit those narcs stick around each other and their dope.
 

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