Best inexpensive LED for small flowering chamber

[Socrates]

Hi all, I'm new to the LED arena and am looking for some advice. I'm looking at a few different lights to cover an area of about 19" x 19" (height should not be an issue, I've got a bit of headroom now that I redesigned the cab). Here's what I'm thinking of so far:

Bysen Helios-style 140W, same as BlackDiamond Raptor X3 Elite 140. Modular, 60 degree lenses, color ratio: R(660nm):B(470nm):R(640nm):B(440nm):B(460nm CREE):R(630nm CREE)=24pcs:8pcs:8pcs:8pcs:4pc:28pcs. (They are willing to change this, if you think I should add something or change the ratios around).
http://www.bsled.com/led-grow-light/h158d-140w.html

Knock-off HGL penetrator-style 140W. 90 degree lenses, epistar and bridgelux chips, Color Ratio: 660nm:470nm:525nm:640nm:440nm:740nm=40:8:4:16:8:8
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...hipping-hot-sale-in-USA/111219_608292600.html

Or, if I move things around a little more for some extra space, I might be able to fit in an eShine 3X100 (about 175W). 90 degree by default but can be changed (is 60 or 90 generally better in a small space?), Spectra: 450/470/630/660//730nm,6500k http://eshinesystems.com/grow/3g-100x3w-led-grow-light.html

I am currently leaning toward the Bysens because their specs seem the best for the price. What do you light experts think (and please don't tell me to just get a LumiGrow, I don't have the cash or the space)?

 

[sneaky101]

I couldn't see the price for that one, but I've got and like advanced led lights. Only ones I have and I just got the 100 watt one ($295).

 

[FunkBomb]

Advanced LED's diamond series, 100 watt unit.

-Funk

 

[Socrates]

Thanks for the input, Sneaky and FunkBomb. Do you think that the advanced lights are substantively different from the eShine version? Also, do you use the 100w one on its own for flowering, or is it supplemental? Thanks!

 

[sneaky101]

Advanced LED is a US based company and handles all issues. A live person answers the phone and their lights come with a 90 day money back guarantee. I've just got my 100w DS led light and am just using it for a small veg box. If you only have 1 or 2 plants, I would think the 100 would work fine. I've got some others that I use for flowering (and vegging). But so far, they all work great...tight nodes, good frost, and a lot less heat.

 

[medmaker420]

Going from hps to leds and trying to compare wattage can sometimes confuse us growers at times. I am seeing everything from a diy kit to full blown setups from a ton of different companies.

I think the focus should be on the spectrum you choose first and then find the company that can set that up for you the way you want it.

I am testing a few different manufactures right now and have another 3-4 coming to test for the flowering phase and feel that MOST of the companies offer a great product BUT the key is getting the spectrum that you want for the size cab/tent/room you are currently in.

Right now I am still in the veg tests BUT one thing I have learned is that the amount of wattage needed for leds to veg can be pretty damn minimal.

All I await is the flower tests, I have seen many grows from hydro advanced black diamond and black dog and many diy kits but until I test them all out I can't say which works best for ME and I think that is exactly what you can find out as well.

Unlike mh cmh and hps grows, with leds we can get specific leds for different growth, add different wavelengths and spectrum setups to perfect our grows and work with our environment.

You can always go with 2 smaller leds versus a single panel and then be able to have more options later on.

 

[vukman]

Hiya..........glad to see there are more people getting into this field and willing to take the time to do some research as well.......

Good luck with your findings and please let us know what you come up with...

 

[grow_right]

i have 3 advancedledlights led lamps. for your space, i would not go less than the 200 watters.

the new ds xml is square, so it matbe an option. i am currently doing a first run with it.

 

[medmaker420]

grow_right

can't wait to see how it grows for you brother.

I think many are still trying to iron out the wattage needs based on the sqft and I am sure it is dependent on the leds used and the angles attached to them that deal with spread versus penetration.

If you only need a 19x19 I doubt much spread would be needed compared to penetration so I would look into lens angles between the different manufacturers themselves. If you are planning on getting a larger setup however it would make sense to get something that has the depth and spread now.

I can see running 90's making more sense in smaller areas versus 60's but if you plan on expanding do a hybrid of both.

 

[Socrates]

Thanks for the replies, all! That Diamond Series XML does look nice - sort of similar to the Bysen light I posted. However, still a little too rich for my blood. Maybe some day in the future as an upgrade? In any case, I'd be very interested to see how it works out for you, as the general size and wattage are about what I'm looking for. Do you have a grow journal going?

Medmaker, I'm curious why you say that running 90s in a smaller area makes more sense than 60s. I would think that with a small footprint and sufficient headroom, the 60 degree lights would actually make the most sense - they'd waste less light and allow for more penetration. Perhaps I'm not understanding the correct applications for various lens angles, though?

 

[Bionic]

For the money, I'd go with EShine. In fact, I am.

 

[medmaker420]

socrates
when you run smaller wattage having spread makes sense (wider lens) and when you run in larger grows having penetration (thinner lens) makes more sense.

 

[Woozy]

i have the HGL knock off except a bigger size, it works pretty good for my cab. 3ft x1.5ftx 6.5ft. buds are tight on top, but anything that doeskin receive light is pretty fluffy.

 

[grow_right]

I think many are still trying to iron out the wattage needs ..

i have considered taking 2 of my ds200's and sticking them in my cabinet..... just to see what would happen. perhaps my next run i will do just that.

biggest advantage of led's over anything else, is heat. they raise my cabinet temps by about 6 degrees.

 

[FunkBomb]

grow_right - can you post pictures of that XML or advanced 200's in action?

-Funk

 

[RebelGrow]

i just snapped up 3 200w, cloned from advancedled, from eshine. I hope they are worth it! my set up is to use 2 of them with my 2 600 watt lumiteks on a solar revolution mover. my 600 watt lumiteks have both mh and hps for flowering and hoping the added spectrums from the led's with blow this grow up!

 

[de145]

The Byssen for that sized space is what I chose though my space is actually 2' by 2'. So far it seems more than adequate but I've only been using it for a few weeks and I got it during a lull between common strains so it's early days yet to compare it with what I used previously (cfl's).

Also I couldn't get it to bleach the leaves at about 7 inches but they did turn weirdly dark looking on one plant at the top near the lights and on all strains they seemed paler than usual but all over, not really only at the top.

I'm also wondering if the lens is wider angle than I thought (they offer two lens angles and I might have the wider one, it seems like a fisheye or marble sticking out of the very center where the cree array is) and / or if they require a lot more food than they did under my old CFL array because I haven't tried using more ferts yet (I use as few ferts as possible usually in the normal course of things).

Note that they claim it's 140watts drawn but it seems to be 120 when I test it which actually I think is a good thing as it means they are running the led's at exactly half their rating when you do the math.

Or perhaps it ramps up the wattage in winter when the temps come down, still not 100% sure about that but in 24 degrees Celsius it's drawing 120 watts.
[Update: I tried cooling it down to normal room temp by turning it off for a while in a cooler place then plugged in the meter and snapped it on and it was 136 watts so I suspect it is dynamically managing the power based on heat which is a good thing if so, will know more in a month or so when the temps are consistently back to "normal" room temperature-ish]

I think that red "knockoff" one (though it might be the actual same as the American one since they say they OEM to U.S. resellers and I find it very hard to believe anyone in the U.S. is actually making these things from scratch, makes no economic sense at all, more like speccing them only) looks like slightly older technology to me.

In any case I think they Byssen / helios / raptor whatever the guy you buy it from decides to call it is the best option because you can upgrade or change the lenses or light arrays or power supply at any time so it seems a little more future proof and getting a smaller one gives you the option of adding another smaller one which some long term led growers seem to be gravitating towards: multiple smaller units versus single huge units.

My only concern would be that some retailers seem to consider the 140 only for veg and might only spec it with a veg spectrum so you need to be careful of that.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i'd say you want 40-50w per sq foot with LED and you want the led's as evenly and widely spaced above the plants as possible. irrispective of lens angle the buds under the fixture will get bigger than the buds not under the fixture.

i also think the preferable lens angle is more dependent on the height you have to grow rather than size. if your height is limited them you dont really want to need an 18" or more gap between your plants and light, so go for a wider angle or go for 2 lower wattage fixtures (1w) side by side rather than 1 3w fixture - if you can afford it.

the main reason people are disappointed with LED's is because they dont use enough watts compared to hps. i think LED's will allow you to use around 20% less actual power draw than hps.
DONT expect to use half the wattage and get the same results. check the actual power draw of the led fixture before you buy

fwiw i have used various HGL units (real ones) and found them to work quite well with plenty of far red to speed up the flowering response (something that many lamps miss out on)
they are also modular and upgradable. their x lens patented and they are not just generic chinese units specced from the USA

VG

 

[Socrates]

Thanks for the help and inspiration, all! I decided to give the Bysen 140W unit a try. I will let you all know how it goes once I eventually get things set up here.

de145, do you have any sort of log going? Since it sounds like you're working with a similar light in a similarly-sized area (although mine's a bit smaller), I'd be very interested to see how you have things set up. How are the heat and noise with the Bysen unit?

 

[de145]

Thanks for the help and inspiration, all! I decided to give the Bysen 140W unit a try. I will let you all know how it goes once I eventually get things set up here.

de145, do you have any sort of log going? Since it sounds like you're working with a similar light in a similarly-sized area (although mine's a bit smaller), I'd be very interested to see how you have things set up. How are the heat and noise with the Bysen unit?

I don't have a log going, sorry but I'll be happy to answer any questions. I've only had it for a few weeks so far so not long enough to draw any real conclusions and it's all complicated by my switching a lot of other variables at almost the same time as I learn to be a better grower.

Noise is not an issue for me so hard to say but not louder than my exhaust fan. They're two computer fans so if you've ever heard a tower PC computer they sound about as loud I guess though definitely not as loud as some of those either.

Heat is pretty good. I don't know how to convey any absolute measurement of how much heat it adds but it's not physically hot to touch anywhere. The greatest heat touching the unit is exactly above the two power supplies built into it and that's really only warm, not hot.

I've seen a lot of resellers have some pretty generous trial and return periods so I don't think there's much of a risk with this light and to be honest I think we're reaching a point where any of the units that have lenses and use 3 watt led's are pretty equal. I've also yet to see an iota of compelling evidence that one exact mix of spectrum is head and shoulders above another.