beaster - sealed room I: sealing, sound and insulation

[Beaster]

I got some great input on my sealed vs. vented room poll...you guys are great! I have decided on a sealed room for security, sound, and smell reasons....and yield i hope...

Right now the shed(room) is and empty shell of plywood and 2x4's. Next step is to construct a ceiling, a doorway, insulate and seal it off.

In order of importance here are my priorities...

• sound
• smell
• climate control
• cost

My plans for this step is to add some r13 "sound barrier" insulation, plastic sheeting, another layer of plywood then drywall.

How does this sound for a plan? anything i should change and/or substitute for something better?

How think do you think the 2nd layer of plywood should be? Is there another material that would be better to use? Which is better for sound deadening, plywood or partical board(sub-flooring)?

what about IR blockers? is this something that should be done now or could i wait until the next grow?

Thanks for your help

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

i dont think u need any of that stuff, it might make it a bit better but some mylar and poly is all u need. ir..LOL there is no such thing, you just have to keep your walls decently cool. and expell your heat properly (completely out of the attic)
mylar is the best at reflection but it also keeps cool. poly to protect your floor.

 

[nUt_jOb]

Good tips by digital...

but instead of plywood and drywall (two materials that MOLD very easily) consider concrete board for your inner walls. Its what ppl use to make shower stalls out of.. it will not mold. Also, its much higher density than drywall or particle board so it will block/absorb much more sound. If you want to go a step further, once you get the concrete walls (I would do floors and ceilings too in it for sound) you can purchase a product called green glue...

and put a layer of it between either a second layer of concrete or put the first layer of plywood as you suggested, green glue, then concrete board.. you can read about the different combos on their site.

You could do a double layer of 5/8" firecode drywall w/ green glue as well.. it will work well for sound.. just paint it over and over and over with the best drywall sealer you can find (i like Behr).. fresh drywall will drink that stuff by the gallon!

Let me know if that helps.

 

[FullMetalJacket]

Your original plan sounds like a excellent plan to me. I would defintely insulate it somehow for climate control reason. Sounds wont be an issue. Only thing that will make noise is the AC and you can insulate that seprately from the room. May not need to though if you go with that r13 for the whole room.

You dont need drywall over the plywood but it may help. What ever you decide the outer layer is i would use the following for the interior walls....after you caulk.

1. Kilz 2 latex primer/sealent which contains a fungiside -wallmart, lowes, HD

2. Then top that off w/ Koolseal reflective roofing coating. This stuff is sweet. It is >90% reflective and can be wiped down with water. It has the ability to expand 300% and resists mold and fungus. I saw a closed room that used it and it was like a rubber coating on the wall. A few layers is like as think as a quater. Its not expensive either. This will seal your shed up real nice from pathogens, insect, and stop smells from exiting. I just ordered a gallon to do my cab after i saw my buddies room. I am ripping down the panda paper, that stuff is a pain in the ass. - Lowes, HD, ACE

You definitely want a sealed room with not the smalles gap especially if this shed is out in the yard. If you do allow gaps i can almost guarentee bugs and a ruined crop...

If you are running alot of lights i would use IR blocking material beween one of you wall layers. If shit does go down, knock on wood, the first thing LEO will show up with is a heat signature gun... If they do fly overs in your are do the roof at a minimum.

Best of luck bro ..sounds sweeeeet.

 

[TGT]

There is mold free drywall (not sure of the name) that builders use for bathrooms. It is just a little more expensive but might be a good idea. I always use regular dry wall and have never had a problem with mold. With a plastic barrior and your humidity controlled properly with a dehumidifier and AC you should be fine. I know the sound proofing insulation works great as a friend installed it on his garage grow and you can't hear a thing from outside. I think the extra press board would be over-kill, but better extra sound protection than too little. The concrete board nut job suggested sounds like a good option also, but I don't know how the price compares to the mold proof drywall, or is it the same? Anyways, good luck and have fun! Post some pic's if you get a chance. I would love to see how it goes as I want to do a garage grow in the near future.

TGT

 

[Beaster]

thanks for the good ideas guys...insulation is a must where i am... i'd like to find out a little more about the concrete board. The shed is on on 4x4's and very solid but i worry a little about weight. this could be paranoia though as i've had 4-6 motorcycles in the shed with all of my tools etc. I was looking on craigs list last night and someone has 14 sheets for $25.....hhmmmmmm

as for the sound...there will be the a/c and probably a vortex/carbon can in the room....then there is the dumbass factor....and that would be when me and my boy work together we chat like little school girls lol....which normally isnt a huge deal but one of my neighbors has a japanese garden that he is always tinkering with....better safe then sorry...thats all i need lol

this type of dumb shit
me - hey...did you water this one?
him - yup that ones all set...she looks great too
me - know right....look at the buds!
him - hellyeah!!

the neighbor is really cool and knows the shed is my workshop and i know he's smelled me smoking in there and my yard....i just dont want to push it...

the ir stuff has me a little concerned, i live in a small town and i know the fire dept has a thermal imaging thing they use to see fire in the walls....i'm more afraid of the drive-by illegal scan of the shed and word of mouth spreading that way....

speaking of the thermal imaging gun...would it be useful for me to try and borrow it to see what the heat signature is when i am done?

 

[nUt_jOb]

Beaster.. the concrete board is the same price as drywall but it comes in smaller sheets. Its available at all the hardware stores probably by the drywall or by the tile section. It can be a little easier to work with as it is smaller in overall dimensions if you are doing it by yourself. Go with the 1/2 inch thick for maximum mass (which = least sound transmission). If you are serious about sound.. go check out some home theater websites for some great ideas.. they are serious about soundproofing. Best tip I have had to date is to always remember that sound takes the path of least resistance.. i.e. you will only be as soundproof as your weakest part (like at the door for most people).

What will you be using for A/C? A window unit? If so those things are so loud you dont have to worry about other noises. If you are going stealth with a mini-split or something.. then thats another story. The R-14 and a finnished inner wall should make your actual speech inside the unit safe. Sounds could be heard outside but nothing that could be really understood. Remember that A/C and can fans put out white noise which really muffles speech.

Small town = least likely to employ FLEER or other advanced detection technology. Don't worry about seeing your actual place with one of those $10k cameras.. I have used one before and have extensive training on it (volunteer Firefighter) and I can tell you that they are not as dangerous to us as the super paranoid may think. They are virtually crippled when aimed at any conductive surface (hence the ppl who put some metal foil in panda film and call it IR blocker). Any conductive surface will do this.. foil backed tape will do this.. BUT..

The key to beating the IR (or simply temperature detection) is to ensure enough air circulation and cooling in your area to avoid producing "hot spots" on the outside walls or (perhaps most often scanned) the foundation of the structure. I have read where leo figured out that if the concrete in a homes foundation is significantly warmer around 7am.. it probably means HID lights have been on all night.. and you cant IR proof your concrete!

A good CHEAP way to constantly and discreetly monitor your IR signatures is to purchase a decent IR temperature gun.

for about 40 bucks and then you can monitor your structure periodically for hot spots. I recommend this approach.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

All you need is insulation and some poly wrap.

One thing to consider is how far do you want to go? If you drywall this, are you going to do a good enough job that the drywall will look decent when you are done? Good enough to leave up when the grow is done?

You may want to use plywood, especially on the ceilings. That way you can hang your lights w/o much hassle and worrying about finding a beam. Yeah you can hang lights between beams by putting in some wood. But having a solid plywood ceiling would be nice.

How big is this room?

How may watts do you plan on running? I am asusming ALOT if you are using a partner. Thats the first NO-NO of growing. If you can loose him, I would

 

[Beaster]

thanks nutjob, you make some good points......I will most likely be using a window a/c, this will also be a challenge to quit down...i am open to suggestions on that as well....

the room is a shed in my yard...the build quality will be form over function...how it is afterwards isnt an issue. The room is 8x12, 2000w 4x8 growing area

 

[nUt_jOb]

hmm.. so you are thinking of exhausting the window ac inside of the larger shack and then venting the shack or putting the window ac sticking directly out of the shack (more obvious looking)?

For that small of a size area, without any expansion plans, you could do a window unit inside the structure, then vent the structure with a LARGE can fan.. the problem with that is that the structure is outdoors and you are much more likely to suck in outside bad things (bugs, exc.) like this.. that technique works inside houses best IMO. If you want to avoid a window unit sitting in your shed wall running 24/7 consider a mini-split AC. You can place the condenser ~ 20 feet away from the shed, with no visible link. Its pretty quiet both inside and the outside unit. A 12k BTU unit is pretty affordable right now.. bout the size you probably need (with some room leftover) unless you are in some crazy climate.

Also, I am sure this isn't the first time you have heard this but non-attached sheds like that are probably the absolute worst place to set up.. Also, a 2kw show is too small for a second person.. unless the dude already lives with you or something. If he doesn't reside at your address, nothing but a liability on a small show. no offense.

Oh and that tip by yamaha to use something structural as the ceiling.. I HIGHLY recommend this! Also the walls as well.. you can mount anything, anywhere. That is very useful when space is at a premium.

 

[Beaster]

the shed is 8x22, i am thinking about hanging the window a/c on the connecting wall so it sticks out into the remaining 8x10. Then find a creative way to hide it, the sound and exh...

if i do that, will i need another carbon can for that room?

 

[nUt_jOb]

Well.. if you 100% seal your 4x8 area and vent the other part of the shed with a constantly on fan (needed for the A/C anyways) the smell will be negligible until you open the door to the 4x8 area. With a carbon filter (id suggest a bigger one) inside the 4x8 area the smell level wont grow too strong so you can probably get away with just spraying some air freshener in the larger shed before/after going in the 4x8 area.

Other things to consider: build the 4x8 area as stand alone with an air gap between it and the walls of the shed.. this will help with both noise and heat signature greatly. Use fans to circulate air around inside the shed and between the walls of the two structures to minimize temperature gradients. If you place a couple layers of pool liner or other vibration absorbing material between the bottom of the 4x8 enclosure and the floor of the larger shed you will greatly reduce the amount of vibration (sound) transmitted physically from the running AC and fans.. exc. from reaching the main structure.

Sound isolation is a tricky business.. another strategy commonly employed (in addition to isolation) is cover up noise.. i.e. something near the shed that would always be on and making noise.. for example you could construct a little pond with a fountain that makes a bunch of constant white noise as the water is splashing and stuff.. be creative! haha