Be a hero, save my plants!

[Aint It Fresh]

Hey all, I regret that my first post on this wonderful site has to be executed with such a worried and heavy heart. As a long time lurker and first time poster of these forums, I trust the patrons enough that after all of the people I've asked in person with no satisfactory response, I look to you guys as my final hope in the rescue of my crop.

So, I am growing several plants outdoors, half of which are already transplanted into their final homes (200 gallon smart pots) and the other half are in their soon to be vacated 5 gallon pots. They are roughly 3 months old and were attained as clones in solo cups from a local guy. They are in a super soil-esque mix made by a local company, which several guys i know have given rave reviews. I am using the advanced line of Oregon's Only - Nectar For the gods (previously Harvest Moon) nutrients. I am PH'ing to 6.0-6.5 and feeding every other watering as per the feeding schedule on their site, as well as a weekly aerated compost tea. I transplanted with healthy doses of Great White mycos and azos beneficial bacteria by Extreme gardening directly on the roots and pot holes. I have a slight mite problem but I am dealing with that, and it is not one of my main concerns. I feel as if I am doing everything right, but I am still seeing sadness in my plants. The leaves are yellowing at an alarming rate, sometimes 6 to a dozen every couple days per plant, and they are starting to look pretty bare. They still have a few good months to veg out but I am worried that they won't make it that long because of all of the foliage loss. I am completely confused and have come to no conclusion as to what is causing my problem. I will post photos as needed or requested. Thank you guys in advance, I couldn't be more grateful for your taking time to read my novel of a post and hopefully providing me with a little insight. CALLING ALL VETERANS

 

[Slipnot]

Need pictures

 

[Aint It Fresh]

On it, thank you.

 

[Aint It Fresh]

You can't tell everything from the photos. Maybe I'm overreacting but I don't think losing foliage at this rate is normal. As you can see there are several gaps where there are no leaves exposing bare stems and stalk, and almost all of the biggest fan leaves have already fallen off. I can't find anything online that addresses these issues. My concern is that the leaves will keep dying and eventually there will be nothing left to grow. It may not look as bad right now because I have been pulling the yellow leaves as i see them, and I just went to my site to take these photos.

 

[Aint It Fresh]

 

[Aint It Fresh]

The photos won't upload? I am using an imgur link?

 

[Aint It Fresh]

Ok hope this works

 

[rykus]

I think that's normal after a transplant if the plant goes through a bit of stress.

I'd recommend just feeding a very light but active feed like fish , kelp and molasses.

You could supplement a bit with foliar of the same feed, and even a coating like neem could help some of the leaves hold moisture, but there would be a risk of sun bleaching...

 

[Granger2]

They look dry to me, and that would cause leaf drop. They should be watered heavily, then allowed to dry out, but not to the point of wilting. Good luck. -granger

 

[Crazy Composer]

Nothing to worry about at this point, relax a bit.

My estimation:
the organics in the medium are possibly not yet fully being acted upon by the microbes. It takes time to get a medium to kick into full-steam-ahead mode. To counter this, I might do a microbe tea every watering for the first week or two, until the micro beasties can take care of their own procreation and proliferation. This looks like what your ladies may be experiencing at this time.

Two other possibilities come to mind. IF your soil IS already very microbially active, then the issue is likely a lack of organic material in the medium, wich I doubt if you are using a new batch of Super Soil.

Lastly, I'd suggest getting one of those cheap SOIL pH tester probes from a local WalMart or somewhere like that. Usually less than $20, and INSANELY helpful to compare the pH of the water/feed going in vs how well and quickly the organic system of the soil is balancing the pH back toward a healthy 6.5-7.0. For example, if you KNOW the pH of your water is going in at 6.0, you can start testing the soil pH with the probe to see if the soil is swinging far from the original 6.0 number. This gives us the chance to really keep tabs on what's happening in the medium, to know if the medium is properly activated with microbial life. If the pH is falling after being put into the soil, then you have an issue where the organic material in the medium can't break down as fast as it needs to for the plant to maintain enough nutrient for normal growth. dolomite lime is thrown onto corpses to cause the organic material to break down MUCH MUCH faster. If they poured vinegar on the bodies, they'd be preserved, protected from most microbial action. Therefore, a compost tea runs very low in pH when it is not properly activated with microbes, however, when the microbes take off in the tea, the pH can jump up drastically, quickly. The microbes have changed the pH of the tea to a more alkaline reading, which also promotes the breakdown of organic material; as in the above example of lime being used to raise the pH on a corpse to promote microbial action and get rid of the corpse faster. We've all seen the mob movies, so I use that example here.

So, either 1. the soil is not yet fully activated with microbes/fungal networks, etc. 2. the soil isn't built with enough fertilizer in it, or the pH is off... which would mean you also need to increase the amount of tea given to get the pH to adjust itself faster. Gotta get that soil pH tester to be able to really grab this thing by the hair and take control. Our ladies like that, as strange as it may seem. What a world. hehehe

I'm here for you any time. PM if you need to reach me specifically. I'll do my best. I know the frustration you have been feeling, and if I can help you not feel that, I'm game.

CC

 

[Aint It Fresh]

I think that's normal after a transplant if the plant goes through a bit of stress.

I'd recommend just feeding a very light but active feed like fish , kelp and molasses.

You could supplement a bit with foliar of the same feed, and even a coating like neem could help some of the leaves hold moisture, but there would be a risk of sun bleaching...

THANK YOU. we just sprayed with a horticultural oil for mites mixed with bloom khaos by nectar for the gods and also hygeias hydration (yucca extract) by the same company and it seems to have done something beneficial, but as for the sun bleaching, is that because the oil stays after the water evaporates and acts as a sort of magnifying glass to intensify the light? I will try that feed as well, but would the oil block out the leaves ability to absorb the water/nutes? thanks again

 

[Crazy Composer]

Yeah, Granger... if they are operating dry, that would certainly prevent the microbial occupation from taking place, too. Gotta get the life in there to kick start the organic fertilization process. No such thing as overdoing it with beneficial microbes, especially in the first couple weeks of using fresh soil.

 

[Aint It Fresh]

They look dry to me, and that would cause leaf drop. They should be watered heavily, then allowed to dry out, but not to the point of wilting. Good luck. -granger

Thank you Granger. I have been watering heavily and allowing them to dry out, even to the point of them showing signs of overwater but not severely. I don't know if the soil just won't retain the moisture, or if it is the small plastic pots that just aren't doing plants that big any favors. All of those pictures besides the one that is clearly in the 5 gallon pot are in 200's. Also as I was transplanting i expected to see roots everywhere, like a solid white ball because they had been in those pots for a couple of months, but i was surprised to see very little roots on the sides and darker almost off white/yellowish roots on the bottoms of the pots. I think they are suffering and the ones that i transplanted are obviously root bound and would take a week or so to break out of it but i don't know, it was very upsetting and disappointing to see the lack of healthy roots.

 

[Aint It Fresh]

Yeah, Granger... if they are operating dry, that would certainly prevent the microbial occupation from taking place, too. Gotta get the life in there to kick start the organic fertilization process. No such thing as overdoing it with beneficial microbes, especially in the first couple weeks of using fresh soil.

Yeah that is true. I will brew up a batch of ACT and feed the ones in the new 200 gallon pots to liven them up a bit. Thank you for your input and digging the Ricky quote in the sig haha

 

[Aint It Fresh]

Nothing to worry about at this point, relax a bit.

My estimation:
the organics in the medium are possibly not yet fully being acted upon by the microbes. It takes time to get a medium to kick into full-steam-ahead mode. To counter this, I might do a microbe tea every watering for the first week or two, until the micro beasties can take care of their own procreation and proliferation. This looks like what your ladies may be experiencing at this time.

Two other possibilities come to mind. IF your soil IS already very microbially active, then the issue is likely a lack of organic material in the medium, wich I doubt if you are using a new batch of Super Soil.

Lastly, I'd suggest getting one of those cheap SOIL pH tester probes from a local WalMart or somewhere like that. Usually less than $20, and INSANELY helpful to compare the pH of the water/feed going in vs how well and quickly the organic system of the soil is balancing the pH back toward a healthy 6.5-7.0. For example, if you KNOW the pH of your water is going in at 6.0, you can start testing the soil pH with the probe to see if the soil is swinging far from the original 6.0 number. This gives us the chance to really keep tabs on what's happening in the medium, to know if the medium is properly activated with microbial life. If the pH is falling after being put into the soil, then you have an issue where the organic material in the medium can't break down as fast as it needs to for the plant to maintain enough nutrient for normal growth. dolomite lime is thrown onto corpses to cause the organic material to break down MUCH MUCH faster. If they poured vinegar on the bodies, they'd be preserved, protected from most microbial action. Therefore, a compost tea runs very low in pH when it is not properly activated with microbes, however, when the microbes take off in the tea, the pH can jump up drastically, quickly. The microbes have changed the pH of the tea to a more alkaline reading, which also promotes the breakdown of organic material; as in the above example of lime being used to raise the pH on a corpse to promote microbial action and get rid of the corpse faster. We've all seen the mob movies, so I use that example here.

So, either 1. the soil is not yet fully activated with microbes/fungal networks, etc. 2. the soil isn't built with enough fertilizer in it, or the pH is off... which would mean you also need to increase the amount of tea given to get the pH to adjust itself faster. Gotta get that soil pH tester to be able to really grab this thing by the hair and take control. Our ladies like that, as strange as it may seem. What a world. hehehe

I'm here for you any time. PM if you need to reach me specifically. I'll do my best. I know the frustration you have been feeling, and if I can help you not feel that, I'm game.

CC

Wow, totally missed this awesome and detailed reply. Thank you so much brother I appreciate it immensely. I know you know how desperate I feel and i needed everything you said. I will follow your advice as closely as I can. I had a question though, should I adjust the ph of my compost tea solution to the low 6's before I apply it or leave it as it is naturally? I just purchased a microscope so I can monitor the microbial activity as well, so we will see how that goes. Again, I salute you for your intelligible and swift response. My harem thanks you.

 

[Crazy Composer]

My pleasure. By the way, MicrobeMan is a fountain of killer information on microbial activity, you can find him here at IC. I have great respect for his knowledge on the matter. As far as pHing the tea, no. No need. A living soil will adjust pH automatically. This means your grow will be even cleaner without having to use all those pH adjustment chemicals. Do you know what your tease pH is when it has become active? Mine is usually in the 8.2 to 8.5 range, and my soil stays at about 6.8, even immediately after giving it the 8-8.5 tea.

 

[Aint It Fresh]

My pleasure. By the way, MicrobeMan is a fountain of killer information on microbial activity, you can find him here at IC. I have great respect for his knowledge on the matter. As far as pHing the tea, no. No need. A living soil will adjust pH automatically. This means your grow will be even cleaner without having to use all those pH adjustment chemicals. Do you know what your tease pH is when it has become active? Mine is usually in the 8.2 to 8.5 range, and my soil stays at about 6.8, even immediately after giving it the 8-8.5 tea.

Yeah, I read a lot from MicrobeMan. Lots of things that i don't quite understand that i probably should look into. I am not sure what the pH is before I adjust, but I will check next time just to have some frame of reference. I'll grab one of those soil probes too, thanks for that recommendation as well. I will let you know what i find under the microscope and I'll even post pictures if I see anything interesting and worth sharing. Thanks again CC, you're the man.

 

[Crazy Composer]

 

[Granger2]

I make ACT, and I use Earth Juice line of nutes. I brew the EJ mixes. Generally, I brew until the pH is where I want it, then apply. If it goes over 7, I add EJ Catalyst which, being acidic, drops the pH back down to where I like it.

An organic soil, many say, will adjust the pH. This is a function of the microherd. If the herd's not thriving [which is in question here], I won't tax it by adding nutes that are way off the mark. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to add nutes with a more favorable pH. Good luck. -granger

 

[Aint It Fresh]

I make ACT, and I use Earth Juice line of nutes. I brew the EJ mixes. Generally, I brew until the pH is where I want it, then apply. If it goes over 7, I add EJ Catalyst which, being acidic, drops the pH back down to where I like it.

An organic soil, many say, will adjust the pH. This is a function of the microherd. If the herd's not thriving [which is in question here], I won't tax it by adding nutes that are way off the mark. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to add nutes with a more favorable pH. Good luck. -granger

Thank you much for your response I will keep that in mind along with everything else. I am hoping this remedies my problem. Again, thank you very much you don't know how much i appreciate it.