Bad Batch of Canna Coco

[bobs your uncle]

Is it normal for Canna Coco to be buffered to a PH of 6.50 and an EC .2 and 100+ ppm right out of the bag?

I guess I'm not totally surprised, it's been advised to always test your medium before you use it, even if the label says it is pre-washed and pre buffered. I just thought Canna's coco was the exception.

I know the numbers aren't that high (I'm sure some people would love their tap water to only be 100 ppm) it's just that I thought it was inert/steril. What I can't deal with is the PH issue. I started to flush one of my plants with tap water ph'd to 5.8 and the return would always come back 6.5 to 6.8. Way to high for my liking, not to mention that I have only had these cuts for 10 days and watered them maybe three times- always with water ph'd to 5.8. After pouring 7 or 8 liters of 5.8 water on this poor little plant and having the runoff come back 6.5 or more I decided I'd try pouring 5.0 ph water, then 4.5, same thing, 6.5 to 6.8 was the return. Finally I tried pouring water ph'd to 3.0 (acidity city or what?) and couldn't believe it when the meter bounced right back to 6.7 with the runoff. Can coco be permanently imprinted with a ph that will not budge, or I guess what I mean to say is, can the ph of coco be so dominant that it cancels-out or nullifies the ph of any liquid that passes over it? I shit you not, I must of poured at least a gallon and and half of 3.0 ph water over that coco, only to have the runoff come back 6.5 or more, everytime. And yes my meter is and was calibrated. I re-calibrated it twice during this little flush session because I was so surprised at the readings.

 

[stikky budz]

I never did check the ph,,,,but when i bought a bag of Canna coco and rinsed it through before use the ppm was 420!!!! The tap water going in was ph6.8 and 0-70ppm. (it didnt actually register a reading on the 'ol trunceon)

Its the worst bag of coco i've ever bought and wont be buying Canna coco again.

I was so surprised at the readings

Surprised?,,,i was gobsmacked!!

 

[aeric]

Sounds fine, that's what coir is supposed to be like...don't worry about pH of the medium, just continue to feed it 5.8. Do more research to see for yourself, everything is fine.

 

[stikky budz]

Its supposed to have high salt/ppm levels?????

I spend enough time reading and researching, believe me, and have never come across that info.

Could you provide a link please aeric?

 

[bobs your uncle]

OK kids, did some research as Aeric advised and nowhere did I find any info saying Canna's coco is supposed to be, or is ok to use if locked at a ph over 6.5. I did find some info regarding a "target ph between 5.3 and 6.2" from Canna's UK site.

Sticky budz, I feel ya about the high ppm levels right out of the bag. The bag I'm questioning/testing was only about 100 ppm, but thats a 100 ppm I was not taking into consideration when mixing my nutes and with young plants, clones etc. that extra ppm might be enough to send them into a spin, if not the plants than yourself spinnin trying to figure out why they look ill. My first few feeding where only about 175 ppm, so with that extra 100 ( of who knows what) should I back off to just 75 ppm or what? In your case the extra 420 ppm would of sizzled my cuts and I would be livid. But livid at who? Myself I guess for not testing the bag beforehand.

I'm in the process of doing the coco test as instructed by Canna. I'll be back with photos and results in a couple of hours. I'll be following this procedure exactly as described.

 

[stikky budz]

bobs : For what its worth, Canna have a DVD out all about their coco. ~ How they prepare it, how to grow in it, cloning, how to test the ph etc. (yep...5.3 - 6.2 is what they recommend ~ kinda make ya wonder why everyone here says to keep it around ph 6.0)
If i remember correctly they made a point of saying how they leave it soaking for god knows how many months in salt free water.
Some friends of mine bought it when they started growing earlier this year and i recommended they try Coco to start off. Not being growers at the time they found it pretty boring, but it was very interesting and informative to me.
You might be able to find it in a hydro shop. They got it from cityhydroponics.com (up north...uk),,,though i've just checked their website and cant see any mention of it.

One thing that process above doesnt mention is they said to take your samples from different areas of the coco (slabs)
They weren't growing Cannabis, but the Strawberries they were growing in slabs looked f*ing amazing...lol

the extra 420 ppm would of sizzled my cuts

Actually, if that 420ppm was nutes and not salt i think you'd be quite surprised.
Check this >
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=65250

 

[C_Q]

100ppm out the bag sounds great to me, thats only 0.2 ec. I'm starting my freshly rooted clones @ 0.7-0.8ec, which I know they can take.

 

[Guest]

I think you'll find

I think you'll find

that Canna recommend, 'a run to waste' system. Not a re-cycle... (ie) ebb and flow.. drip and go.. or any re-using, of the nutes methods...

If you feel the need; and want to re-use your nutes??

I'd suggest you grow in pebbles, or some other totally inert medium.

peace an stuff.

g

 

[Guest]

that Canna recommend, 'a run to waste' system. Not a re-cycle... (ie) ebb and flow.. drip and go.. or any re-using, of the nutes methods...

If you feel the need; and want to re-use your nutes??

I'd suggest you grow in pebbles, or some other totally inert medium.

peace an stuff.

g

Or you can just learn how to recirculate it like the rest of us, and not waste any nutes... Canna is in the business to sell nutrients, of course they are going to tell you to run to waste.

Good starting place <~~~

 

[bobs your uncle]

Alright Children of the Corn, just finished testing some Canna coco fresh out of the bag.

And the results are.....

Well, nothing really earth shattering really. Did the whole 1:1.5 analysis thingy- the only difference was I was testing the coco's ph and ec/ppm out of the bag instead of Canna's recommendation of "after 3 to 4 weeks". So, just to be clear to anybody who's bored enough to actually be reading this thread, (gringle) (ok, you too, Indica Sativa) this test only concerns the ph and ec/ppm of unused, non-recycled Canna coco. Basically, do I need to pre-rinse Canna's coco before use?

Oh yeah, the other difference between my test and the one pictured above is lab coats. I wasn't wearing a lab coat. Same beakers, no lab coat.

Results:

after soaking some coco in distilled water with a ph around 7 and ec/ppm 0/0 and then pouring through a filter the ec was 0.286 and the ppm was 200 @ .7 conversion. The ph was a little harder to pin down, came back @ 5.8 the first time (different than last night's rock solid 6.8) so I tried pouring some water ph'd down to 2.9 over some fresh coco and it came back 5.8 also. They aint kiddin about their coco being pre buffered, seems no matter what ph you throw at it the coco will "buffer" it to somewhere between 5.5 and 6.8.

Why do we adjust the ph of our water when using Canna coco if the coco is so good at buffering it to a useable range? ...maybe you guys don't check or adjust your ph, sounds good to me.

I can't deny I took a couple pics of the above tests in progress, I am that geek. I can deny you the pleasure of viewing them though. I've actually watched paint dry, so I think I'm a pretty good judge on what's boring or not.

 

[Guest]

OK Bob:

OK Bob:

And yer ain't my uncle....
I think..??

Well that's another thought..?


I think Folks, kinda confuse things; while not just, accepting what works, they seem, too want to prove thet grannies home-made recipe tastes the best!

And I repeat (or reiterate) Canna recommend a run to wast system!

If you and other folk have enough time, to play with water; I'm too busy growing..

peace.



an stuff

 

[aeric]

Feel better now BYU? By the way I've been doing coir a couple years, pretty well i like to think, not like I'm talkin outta my ass....It's cool i been there though.

Gringle: I wanted to respond to what u said above but I honestly cant understand it...could you say it in English please? Recirculating takes some strategy but it's not rocket science and is less work in the long run, but, whatever your preference it's all good.

 

[Guest]

OK mate, I'll try, in less confrontation, or emotional way to explain 'what I think?'

Most of the major Nutriment Company's spend Millions on developing a product...
And they continue to make their money, by working on a basic concept/product!

In simple English: What 100% is here, is 80% somewhere else; or even less?

We all have different environments; different grow areas' etc, air flows etc, etc.

I believe that adjusting the actual water one uses, (before using nutes.) is more important, than adjusting the nutriment levels..

That way 'if it ain't broke' ...I don't give a flying pig I'm confident about the basics. (Then I can work on what's going wrong.)

peace an stuff. .

PS the Victorians got great water filtration, using plain old sand.

more peace
gringle

 

[bobs your uncle]

Well, I can't say I feel any better, kinda wish my plants felt better though. As I don't have another 50 liter bag laying around to test and compare the results, I can't accurately claim that my bag is "bad". I would still like to know if the 100 or 200 ppm of what, ...sea salts? (sodium?) is toxic to my plants.

I think because my last run with Canna's coco was relatively uneventful (4 lights - 4 lbs - 3 months), and my current batch of cuts is looking bad (not Michael Jackson "bad"), I was looking for the smoking gun in the bad coco instead of looking at the bad grower. That being said, at least I know where all those extra ppm's came from when testing my runoff.

So I guess in conclusion, it wouldn't hurt to test a handful of the coco before you use it, but you already knew that.

And I repeat (or reiterate) this thread has nothing to do with whether you run to waste or recirculate your nutrient solution (gringle) just kidding, thanks for the input though.


"PS the Victorians got great water filtration, using plain old sand."

 

[BlindDate]

I use Canna Coco and other brands. You are paying a premium for the buffering and added nutrients so why in the world would you want to wash them out?

Also, recirculating coco is unnecessary since it retains nutrient moisture. Would you setup a recirculating soil system??!!

 

[bobs your uncle]

"added nutrients"?

"added nutrients"?

"added nutrients"?

What nutrients is Canna adding to their coco?

 

[Guest]

Yuh know Bob: (who ain't my uncle) yer show a remarkable propensity; fer nit- picking..

Get it through your head??? If you can't grow in Coco.. yer can't grow!!

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Is it normal for Canna Coco to be buffered to a PH of 6.50 and an EC .2 and 100+ ppm right out of the bag?

Yes, it is.

100ppm out the bag sounds great to me, thats only 0.2 ec. I'm starting my freshly rooted clones @ 0.7-0.8ec, which I know they can take.

Exactly. In the world of coco, anything below a 150ppm is concidered very pure, first class grow material, while between 150ppm to 500ppm means some impurities but still decent quality, and levels above 500ppm means too many impurities, and probably too high sodium levels (of which 250ppm or more is toxic).

"added nutrients"?

What nutrients is Canna adding to their coco?

High quality coco coir is often pre-treated with soluble Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium, to improve the Caption Exchange Capacity of the medium. But we're talking very small amounts.

 

[bobs your uncle]

Rosy- Thanks for the information on coco quality, ppms etc.. It's nice to have some numbers to compare to.

gringle- I was not aware that Canna added nutrients their coco. To the extent that my curiosity came across as nit-picking to you, I apologize.Thanks again for your input to the thread and for the words of encouragement.

 

[aeric]

Also, recirculating coco is unnecessary since it retains nutrient moisture. Would you setup a recirculating soil system??!!

How did this become a debate about the validity of recirc anyways folks? True it is not necessary to recirculate in coco, but is one of the methods that can be used, quite successfully, there are several well documented threads on here about that, it's not exactly a new revelation, it has been proven to work and well. So has handwatering, so have many ways of doing coco. Coco is not black and white like alot of other soil/less mediums. Theory via canna or your cousin or neighbor is nice, but proven methods are all over this forum...please read