Backcrossing - male as reccurant parent?

[kukac]

Backcrossing - male as reccurant parent?

I apologize on my english. Reading is not a problem, but I had to sweat to make a meaningful text. I hope it is understandable

I have no conditions for breeding. Have some basic knowledge* of inheritance. but I can not help my self. I want to play a bit. Without hurry, without great expectation. I have a 1000w grow room and a garden where I can put some plants. I will try to adapt the breeding to these conditions.
I have one plant that I have been growing for a while. From two packs of seeds of Uzbekistan ibl(USC) I chose a quality female, take cuttings, and polinate her. I got a bunch of seeds. She has a good grow patern, high, and she well ended the outdoor season in my climatic conditions. I still have that plant, but i would also try to add some sativa high to her.

this would be a procedure

First of all, I will polinate her with a Uzbek male from her offspring. Maybe I'll do one more backcross. Or not? In the end keep the male from last backcross and use that male as recurrent parent.

The other plant is a cross durban poison x skunk that a friend made a long time ago. I succeed to grow 9 female plants and some males. Excellent hybrid. I have choose a female plant that is top-notch, which has also made excellent outdoor seasson.

The process would be this:
Dp / sk (f) x uzb (m)
From offsprings choose only females, take cuttings, let plants to finish, smoke them, and best (or 2 if they are of a high quality but different) backcross with the Uzbek male.
And so several times. Choose the best female and make backcrossing with the Uzbek male. Theoretically, i could have material for two lines. Lot of seeds from every cross and material for personal use.
In the end, choose the male and the female from the same line and try to stabilize the line.

Your opinions?
*Is there anything fundamentally wrong in this concept?


Cheers
Kukac

 

[Rico _El_Guapo]

Hey kukac

No reason why that wouldn’t work. Most of the time people bx the offspring males, to the female, but in your case (and if I had a good uzbek) it’s a good way of getting the most uzbek in your line.

The Uzbek samples I’ve had, didn’t have the best bag appeal, but the smoke was pretty old school, and it made KILLER hash.

Good luck

 

[MJPassion]

Only problem with using the male as the recurrent parent is if produces mediocre plants to begin with.


Finding the right male may prove to be a challenge or you may get lucky and have a damn fine male from the start of your project.


Whatever you do, enjoy yourself.

 

[kukac]

Rico _El_Guapo
Thanks


MJPassion

I'm aware of that. That's why I'm going to try to create a recurrent male.
Make one or two backcrosses to a great uzbeki female (who is already ibl) with her 100% uzbeki offspring
would that will reduce the chance for low performance recurrent male?

 

[MJPassion]

Dank Frank has some good ideas about back crossing. Maybe he'll chime in.
Until then, Here's a couple threads to peruse concerning the subject.
https://www.icmag.com/modules/Find_Threads/index.php?stext=back+crossing

It's usefulness is often debated on cannabis forums.
C99, I believe, is what started the back crossing trend in cannabis because it was so successful for that particular project.

IMO, without the ability to see exactly what genes you are manipulating, back crossing is more or less a crap shoot... just like any other breeding project.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that without the analytical tools that are used by professional breeders, any breeding project is a crap shoot.


Your best bet, IMO, is to study Luther Burbank for a few weeks and see if you may be able to emulate his methods of selection and plant elimination.
Most folks cannot do Luther Burbank style breeding projects because they take up too much space.


I hope this is helpful for you.

 

[kukac]

Its my bed english. Every time i typed "backcross" in search. Instead "back cross"

I dont know much about breeding cannabis. I read something, but...

I know that in agriculture back crossing is a good tool for introducing one trait to some inbread line. and that's what i want.
if nothing else, I'll play a bit and have fun.

Thank you

 

[LostTribe]

As Nevil said regarding backcrossing. Females should be selected as the Parent because they show you what you are trying to select for (Flowers, smell, trichomes, structure, yield, ease of growth, disease resistance), while males are not capable of showing any of the smokeable traits.

Without testing your initial f1 pairing you won't have any idea if you have chosen a male that will give you the desired results. Even if the f1 pairing is acceptable it will not guarantee any further inbreeding will result in the same results as the females will have some say in what the final result is.

I find it best to locate an elite female then search multiple males crossing each in 1:1 matings and testing results for the male that produces offspring that is most like the selected mother plant. Even this will take a considerable amount of time and research. Also, as MP stated previously, even with a selected female its still a crap shoot.

You are wasting you time if you try to BX to the male IMHO.

 

[kukac]

we'll see.
In fact, there is no such thing as a waste of time if you do it with love and curiosity.
really, I have nothing to lose. I just can get a good time. regardless of the end result

 

[Treevly]

As Nevil said regarding backcrossing. Females should be selected as the Parent because they show you what you are trying to select for (Flowers, smell, trichomes, structure, yield, ease of growth, disease resistance), while males are not capable of showing any of the smokeable traits.

On that subject - sort of - would early pollen production in a male (compared to its brothers) tend to suggest that its female offspring might inherit a gene for early flowering? Might there be an 'earliness' connection?

 

[Lyfespan]

look at section 2 chapter 3-4

https://gtu.ge/Agro-Lib/Principles%20of%20Plant%20Genetics%20and%20Breeding.pdf

 

[JimmyToucan]

You can always reverse the male to get a better idea as to what you're working with. A good male stinks no matter what, packs on resin and shows off his structure just fine, but you can take it a step further and turn him into a ladyboy by introducing ethylene prior to flower.

You don't know what *either* parent is going to pass on until you do it. The best time to start looking is now Good luck.

 

[kukac]

As Nevil said regarding backcrossing.* Females should be selected as the Parent because they show you what you are trying to select for (Flowers, smell, trichomes, structure, yield, ease of growth, disease resistance), while males are not capable of showing any of the smokeable traits.*

Last few days i read a lot of written about cannabis backcrossing. And there is a lot of missconception, wrong informations.
I think some biologist has to be shocked or entertained when he sees what is called a strain.
I do not want to make a new strain. I'm familiar with recurrent Uzbeki and I want to change one trait. As far as this is possible because of linked traits. But it is not a problem and if they are transmitted. I dont know.
One of the reasons why i want females from offspring is that i can smoke them and see if they have the trait I'm looking for. With male i could not know if sativa high is present.

On that subject - sort of - would early pollen production in a male (compared to its brothers) tend to suggest that its female offspring might inherit a gene for early flowering?** Might there be an 'earliness' connection?

I dont know. If that trait is on y chromoson then it cant be inherited by female offspring

...

Good advice

Thank you

 

[GMT]

Truthfully, you're better off getting a few sativa strains and finding your new keeper among them. Keep what you like AS what you like. When you start adding this, you lose that. Better to add a plant to the rotation than lose one trying to improve it.

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

I think regardless of what you use, male or female, every parent has to be tested through it's offspring and only through the offspring. I don't see any advantages in using males vs females.

 

[Fuel]

Even if passionate theorists generally are saying than it don't exist (like many others things, increased herms risk with fems etc ...), it's frequent to encounter sexual prevalence of traits in modern hybrids. This is not so much an advantage on its own, technically i mean (on methodology, it can be debated), but more what dictate the line at a given generation.