Armoire grow. 6x6x2. questions

[Guest]

Hello all. I'm designing an armoire for a dwc scrog. I was thinking 1 or 2 plants in 5gal buckets per side with a 400HPS under each of the partition. what would be the most effective way of heat management? Drilling, cutting, etc of the back of the box is no problem, as well as on the top.

the actual measurnments are 6.4x6.4x1.8



thanks
-ms

 

[guineapig]

helllo msober guineapig here,

is it possible that you could give a bit of an idea of the budget with which you are working? if you do not want to it is ok......i will just give suggestions assuming you have a moderate budget to work with for equipment purposes.....

i am researching your questions tonight and will post asap! -gp

 

[Guest]

MS-

Well, I guess I'd better live up to my new status of Growroom Design Guru!

I probably should ask a few questions before getting into advice.

Do you need odor control?

How stealth does this need to be?

How much room do you have above the cabinet (between cabinet & ceiling)? If you have enough room, you can put the odor filter & ventilation on top of the cabinet and keep the entire interior of the cabinet for growing space.

Have you purchased any ventilation equipment/supplies yet or are you open?

How much DIY do you want to do?

What is your normal room temp?

Will you be venting into the room or into an attic or.... ?

Can (or will) you run ducting to a vent that goes outside? If so, how much distance does the ducting have to cover?

I take it the armoire is already divided. You could stagger harvests by using one side to veg while the other side is flowering if it is (or can be made) light tight between the two sides.

A 400 light on each side is a good size; this gives you about 69 watts/sq ft. You'll want to put the light on chains or ropes to adjust the height until the plant reaches the level of the SCROG. Make sure to read the safety instructions on your light - mine state that you should leave about 2' of space above the light for safety reasons, and you'll want 18-24" between the light and the canopy. If you get air-cooled lights, the space needed could be reduced. You might look into cool-tube style lights.

 

[Guest]

well cool tubes to lower lumens.. check out hydroteks cool tube sets at www.cheaphydroponics.com uhm.... if there going to be a solid divider there? if so.. you could in theory run 1 harvest a month or once a week.. something like that... and run one 400 at night.. one during the day. just a thought... this is where veg is going to be too? cause in theory you can run a perpetual if you make the scrog screen for ewach plant separate... and get another veg running... with a few extra dwc buckets put together...

 

[Guest]

venting with 2 separate sections might be a royal pain in the ass by the way...
but a nice 449 cfm vortex running both.. the cooltubes and clearing the room would work VERY WELL.. i recommend.. (speaking from experience here) you build a box lines with foam and hang the fan from a bungee chord inside the box.. just to keep it quiet.. its not like a squirrel cage fan loud.. it's lieka lot of air moving fast loud.. a fan baffel on the blowing out end would be good and it's advisable to either get a vaportek optimum 4000 (i've found women don't like the smell.. as most of the women i've had around that smelled it.. didn't like it.. guys dont seem to mind) or pull all the air through a charcoal filter......i'd also line the box in panda plastic and throw on a zipper... will help with light leaks.. you want to put on a lock? or

 

[Guest]

thank you for all the replys. some more info since theres some interest

first off, here are some more pictures to give people more to work with






Well it needs to be semi-stealth. there can be cords going to the box, and I suppose ducting if need be. It's a guest room that might be used 4 or 5 times a year by relatives. but as long as it can close the doors, we'll be alright. I have not purchased anything yet. this is a family project of sorts me being back from college and poor...hehe. Putting ventalation and oder can go on top, no problem. It's currently (when put together) 95% light proof so it would need work on that area. We'll do as much diy as we can. making our own buckets and everything like that. Will most likely have to call an electrition to pre wire the room for the added voltage, correct? This stuff can't run off of normal outlets. Sounds like one entry/exit port, with a carbon scrub on the exit? The wall to the immediate right of the box is the west facing wall of the house, however, there is no vent.

I'm open to any suggestions on two flower chambers or one veg. In the basement I have a 3x4 freezer that can be set up with floros as another option for veggins. I like the 10k cheap-aero-cloner setup. would work nice in the freezer, no? Otherwise, the right side could be used for veg. Would make it more convenient so lets focus on vegging on right side, flower on left.

Thanks for all the interest again.

-ms

 

[Guest]

ok
well...
i think you should put a lock on it.. and i SERIOUSLY recommend you pick up poly-film or black and white poly- panda plastic.. goes by many names.. basically its a thin roll of plastic thats light proof, black on one side white on the other... its great... line the box with it...and you can make a zipper door on the inside for it.. keep the scrubber in the top of the box and PULL air through it and then through the cool tubes and through the fan and out of the box at the top... passive intakes with black painted pvc elbows and all for lgiht traps out of the back... about 2 feet off the ground and piped down about a foot down into the box... ( majority of mold and dust in the room is on the ground or floating around a fewinches above the floor...) if you do dual 400's i recommend you do perpetual- say you got 8 plants int here total... harvest one a week... or 4 plants... harvest one every 2 weeks... veg in the freezer... that would be great.. and setup each bucket with a scrog screen.... have a few extra buckets so you can have plants veged for like a month or so..and then bring them into the flower room.. put one in every tiem you pull one... keep a bubble cloner.. or build an aero cloner or something along those lines.. theres a lot that can be done here.

 

[Guest]

tip... youre going to want the flower boxes to have their own 15 amp breaker.. and ithink you can probably keep the veg box on some breaker thats being used for other things....

 

[Guest]

If it is not hard to maintaine temps in the freezer, I would like to set it up as a aero-cloner under fluoros and then move them to the two flower chambers in the box. Here are two pics of the freezer.

I don't know if there would be enough room to veg them proparly in there. How big would they be before I need to transfer them to the other room? which way would you guys go with?





edit: those are a few bagseeds in keg cups under a fluro just for the fun of it right. incase people are wondering.

 

[guineapig]

with ambre and wang on your side you will be steered (moo!) in the right direction....

ambre congratulations on your title as Grow Room Guru!!!

i have been conscripted to join up and have a bit of info.....
6-inch vortex inline fan....449 cfm.....165 clams
complete hps setup with cool tube.....460 clams
growing your own............................priceless!

for light proofing i use something called "10 mil polyvinyl plastic" like WC suggests.....it is commonly used as a drop for painting projects....i was thinking you could staple-gun this stuff to light-proof some of the cracks and save the flat wood on the interior surface for mylar.....but if you are on a budget use the black and wihite polyvinyl panda plastic......

describe the basement set-up (pics?) so we can decide how to go about setting up a perpetual harvest system if you are in for the long haul.....if not we'll do a killer one-time deal and maximize the space of the armoire.....

ambre should have a few tricks up her sleeve.....lets roll up our sleves and get R done!

yer perpetual pal GP

 

[Guest]

if you can fit 2 of those dwc setups in there at a time and a bubble or aero cloner... with plants large enough to fill yuor scrog screen it should be fine. basically... you just need to grow 2 dwc's at a time maybe 3...... and have a clone ready to put into the dwc of the plant you just chopped....... and take the entire dwc setup with the oldest plant and put it into flower....you can run moms in soil or whatever in 5x5 square pots under 20-40 watts of floros......

any idea what strains your running?

 

[Guest]

haha yeah.. i was thinking of setting you up with a real nice perpetual setup.... i actually think security blankets will be cheaper to line your cabinet... panda plastic actually costs around 70 dollars for a 100x10 foot roll...

 

[Guest]

I would like to order some BOG seeds, anyone have any experience with them on a scrog?

 

[dubmantx]

use the top shelf part to house the ballasts and the blower in. This will also work as a light trap if set up properly. About a 175-250 cfm blower per light should work. Maybe a 250 or something a little bigger for both lights. Scrog would be cool but I dont think its necessary as you will have plenty of height. Nice furniture though. Where did you get it. Im keeping my eye out for something to house a 400w HPS in.

 

[Guest]

haha yeah.. i was thinking of setting you up with a real nice perpetual setup.... i actually think security blankets will be cheaper to line your cabinet... panda plastic actually costs around 70 dollars for a 100x10 foot roll...

If the panda plastic is that much, I think we'll stick with the emergancy blankets.

 

[Guest]

Where did you get it. Im keeping my eye out for something to house a 400w HPS in.

I'm not sure where it's from, but it's pretty slick. seems to be designed for a scrog, could be a little deeper, but should be okay. I like the idea of keepting all the stuff on the top shelfs. which still leaves 54 inches for the light and screen.

 

[guineapig]

hey msober.....saw you kept your cool even though some people vented a bit of frustation your way.....homie let me tell you i remember what it was like "in the beginning" and i had a couple of awesome mentors to help me out....one was even a grad student in plant science at Drexel and gave me a very advanced Plant Physiology & Molecular Biology textbook.....anyway that is neither here nor there....


this info comes courtesy of Sugabear who is an awesome cyber-friend and is more than willing to share his knowledge of cabinets.....some have remarked that his cab setups are the best ever.....maybe someday we will have enough freedom to open up a Wal-Mart for Cab Enthusiasts!!! hehehe.....


"I'd suggest for your and yours needs a larger cabinet than mine. I
would recommend a wardrobe cabinet at least 4-5’ tall. All home
depot cabinets are from mills pride – here’s their web site.

http://www.millspride.com/assemblei...t.cfm#garagecat

The u5 or c1 are good option. The c13 and c22 are also excellent
there are whole on-line clubs of people using the c13 or c22. The
big advantage with the c13 is it is a 24” wide x 24” deep giving
you a square footprint whereas the smaller cabinets are only 15”
deep

I highly recommend the c13 cabinet for you. You can put 400+ watts
in there.

However If you want to go counter height like mine get a u2 cabinet
or another option is the c3 which is 24” wide x 24” deep, however
you’d have to do some work to make the drawer part of the door. In
hindsite this is what I would have done since I could get another 2
plants in there.

Ok so if you choose a counter height cabinet you’ll need a to buy a
top - Or you could get the u2 and the u1 along with the matching
counter top that goes with it – use the u1 for mom and babies and
the u2 for flower. Or just buy the melamine and have it cut.

The wardrobe cabinets have tops however both cabinets will need a
back. The one that comes with the wardrobe is cardboard. So get
some good thin plywood for the back. I recommend having it cut at
the depot as they have the big saws.

So now you set up your cab – if you got the c13 you’d use the upper
chamber for your fan carbon filter and ballasts. Hang the light.

Get some 5/16 weather stripping it goes around the doors and in
between the pieces of the cabinet as you put it together for air
and light tightness. Where the doors come together you’ll only want
one side to have the weather stripping.

Before you put on the back run a power cord into the cabinet – I
used a power strip with a 15 foot cord. The cord comes out of the
bottom of the cabinet. This can either be through a separate hole
in the floor or a hole in the back.

You’ll need to use a hole saw to drill intake holes in the bottom –
depending upon how much wattage and fan you’ll want more or less. I
have 3 two inch intakes in the floor with a 134 cfm fan and 150
watts. If you get the c13 you’ll need to drill a hole(s) in the
shelf for exhausting the flower section. Then figure out where the
exhaust is going out the back – or top.

In the intake holes you’ll want to use 90 degree pvc pipes – 2 for
each vent – paint the inside matt black to trap the light.

So then we get the hydro setup going – Each of those elgin 401 air pumps can
power two small buckets like I have or one larger bucket. So
depending on how many you want to have going depends on how many
air pumps you need.

If you get a bigger cabinet I’d recommend 2 gallon buckets. If not
get smaller 5 quart or 1 gallon buckets.

Use aluminum duct tape to cover the buckets completely for air
light tightness.

Now the traditional method is to use a small net pot and put drill
or cut a hole in the lid that perfectly fits the net pot. Drop in
the net pot full of hydroton and your little baby in a RW or coco
starter plug.

However I use 3" rockwool cubes for veg stage and hand water until
the roots grow out the bottom.

Then I cut a piece of foil sided foam a little larger then the
bucket top and cut a 3” square hole in the middle. Then I use
skewers through the RW cubes to hold the cube in the hole. The
roots grow down from the cubes instead of the net cup. It’s kinda
hard to explain I can try taking a picture if you want.

Make another little hole in the lid for the air hose. I use two air
stones in each bucket and find that they stay pretty near the
bottom of the bucket. But if you use a single air stone or a bigger
bucket you may need to weigh down the air hose to keep the
airstones on the bottom of the bucket.

Nutrient levels should be kept about 2-3” below the bottom of the
net put or the RW cube. Levels should never be soo high that the
cube is or net pot is in the water.

The bubbling from the air stones will keep the gap nice and moist
so there’s no need to worry if levels get low, in fact they can go
pretty much down to the bottom 2” of liquid without much damage to
the plant.

Nutrients – I don’t know what you have but I use General Hydro
Floranova it’s organic based and grotek grow for veg. Either way
follow mixing directions for recirc system or if it lists ur
shooting for between 500 start to 1000-1100ppm at peak of flower.
I also use Epsom salts – I think ¼ tsp per gallon is the mix, not
sure I go by ppm.

So yeah if you can swing it get a ppm meter – you’ll want one
before too long anyways.

Change the nutrients weekly to keep bacteria from getting out of
control. I also use a product called Hygrozyme, it’s kinda
expensive but it really helps to keep the roots healthy – avoid any
look a likes and get the real stuff!

PH should be 5.5-6.0

I mix my buckets and let ‘em go for 4-7 days and change – I never
check the ph or ppm in between – just too lazy.

shopping list

Cabinet – $40-100
5/16 weather stripping x 2
2-4 buckets either 2 gallons or 5 quart
15 foot corded power strip
8 (90 degree PVC pipes)
matt black spray paint
aluminum duct tape (big roll)
air stones
air hose (black kind if you find it)
air hose T’s

(got some more info coming up soon.....stay tuned.....guineapig answers all questions no matter how seemingly important or trivial.....newbies and advanced alike will hear the banter of guineapig....-gp)

 

[guineapig]

a link for cabinets...

a link for cabinets...

oh one more link:

perhaps the best link suga has provided me with is right here......it is full of DIY ideas with full descriptions and photographs......it is at a wonderful site strictly for medical users and they truly do some wonderful work for the medical community....anyway i'm rambling again and here is the link:

(for some reason the address automatically configures itself and gives a bunch of asteriks where the addy should be.....i'll try to somehow get this link to you, homie.....i'm sorry)

pm me and i'll get you this good info!

yer pal GP

 

[Guest]

Wanted to throw out the specs on the freezer. L 40" by H30" with 23" of depth. inside the freezer, there is a H 11" by L 14" with a depth of 10" where the freezers motor is housed. Let me know if any pictures are requested to aid in the design.

 

[Guest]

msober-

Sorry about not getting back to you earlier; I've had my hands full the last couple of days with work and setting up for the next grow (I'm doing a test grow of Legends Seeds "Johnny Blaze" and the seeds just arrived).

If you will be having guests in the room, you will definitely want a lock on the cabinet.

Lining the box as wang chung suggests is a good idea. I use the emergency blankets instead of "real" mylar - the emergency blankets are about $2 each at Walmart in the camping department. His suggestion of a "tent" inside the container has merit, but you would need to fasten the liner to the cabinet or it will just suck in toward the plants when the ventilation is on.

Electrical:

Does this room have a circult of its own or is it sharing a circuit with other rooms? Even better, does the room have more than one circuit? What size breaker(s)? Most lights and stuff will run off of normal circuits, but you have to be sure not to overload the circuit (don't exceed 80% of max capacity) and it is a very good idea to replace all the outlets with GFCI outlets. GFCI outlets are the ones that are usually found in the bathroom & kitchen that have test/reset buttons in them - these act as local circuit breakers in case of a problem and give added protection to your house. I am running my grow off of normal house circuits, but I'm spreading the load over 3 different circuits in two rooms. In addition to the GFCI outlets, I have power strips with GFCI and surge protection built in.

If you have an electrician come in, have him install 20 amp lines & breakers and run heavy wiring to handle the load - not that it is absolutely necessary, but as long as you are spending the money for the labor, you might as well spend a little bit more on the parts and have the extra peace of mind.

Ventilation:

Passive air intakes should come in the back so they don't show. You can put intakes through the floor of the cabinet using PVC elbows, but you run a risk of pulling mold, pet hair, dust, and everything else that accumulates in unused areas of the floor into your garden. If you do put intakes at the bottom, use pieces of the good HEPA style furnace filters to trap the intake and change them monthly. Even on the intakes that are up from the floor, I put "under eave" vents over the openings. These have slanted slats like most vents, but they also have screen behind that that catches pet fur & dust bunnies and keeps it out of the garden. They do need to be cleaned off every so often (in my house, about every other day - I rescue cats and have about 25 of them in the house).

Air scrubber & some of the electric stuff could be put in the upper shelf instead of on top, which will help make the cabinet more stealthy. Connections/ducting can come out the back for stealth (meaning the cabinet can't be against the wall) or, if they come out the top, they can be hidden with boxes that look like you have stuff stored in them. With some light baffles, you could vent both sides through the top shelf and simplify the hookups.

It's better to pull air through the scrubber (carbon filter) than it is to push it. You may have to do some experimenting to balance the blower & intakes to keep noise to a minimum. Too little intake space will strain the blower, causing it to make noise; too much intake space will allow air to escape from the garden without going through the air scrubber. You may also need to experiment with the scrubber since it puts resistance on the air flow and can cause the blower to strain. The general rule is twice the space for passive intakes as you have for outflow (if your opening for the vent fan at the top is 5" x 8" = 40 sq in, then you will need approximately 80 sq in of intake). This formula isn't set in stone because it depends a lot on how much pull your blower has.

Design:

If you use panda film to lightproof the two sections, you could flower both sides for alternating harvests or use one side for mothers/vegging and the other for flowering. If you use one side for mothers/vegging, you could sub-divide the section into two shorter sections. Use fluoros for these sections; you don't need high wattage lights. That way you only need one 400-watt HPS for the flowering side. You don't need to worry about light leaks between the mothers & vegging sections, so just cut holes in the shelf between them for ventilation.

If you want to use the dual flowering chamber setup, you should be able to veg in the freezer. My vegging areas are 25-30" tall including the height taken up by the pots & the lights, so the plants themselves get about 15-18". That should be plenty if you are going to SCROG because you can LST the plants in the veg area so they are ready for the screen when you move them.

The height of only 11" in the freezer is a bit limiting for mother plants or very long vegging, but would be great for cloning. Problem is, with a small garden like you have, you don't need many clones. If you want to keep "bonsai" style mother plants, the freezer would probably work. I'd use side lighting rather than top lighting or the plants will be touching the lights & getting burned with only 11" height.

I use bubbler cloners in 6-quart shoebox size plastic containers and I can get about 20 clones in one container. You don't want strong light for cloning, so if you keep other plants in there, you might want to subdivide a section of the freezer when you are cloning (a piece of cardboard covered with mylar or foil would do the trick - lightproof isn't necessary, just reduce the amount of light).

Bubblers are a great way to grow. I have my mother plants in bubblers (tubblers, actually - several plants per Rubbermaid tub) right now and will be building a recirculating bubbler system with reservoir for my next flowering crop. My current flowering crop is in an ebb & flow system. I build all my own hydro systems & gardens - check out my threads if you want to see them (links are in the signature block below).

Good night!



I'm sure that there is a lot more to cover, but this should give you some food for thought. Post any questions or thoughts you might have and we'll all be happy to give our (probably biased but meant in good faith) opinions and suggestions.