Arificial Topping - High Intensity or Solely Genetics?

[TerpeneTom]

Hello,

I am producing four ECSD S1 genetics, and understand the strain to inherently develop excessive axial growth, but the two distinct phenotypes that I propagated allowed the lateral growth to surpass the terminal shoot.

I know this is genetic, but from the grow journals I have observed which are producing the same genetics (I know S1's are not true breeding, and the ECSD is a massive poly-hybrid, so variance is expected, but have recognized two distinct phenotypes) and have not witnessed such a phenomenon.

I have considered the high intensity that I have exposed my plants to from the introductory stages of their development; I immediately placed the seedlings into the direct path of a 600W HPS bulb (~2ft away initially) and 150W LED (~1FT away, manufacturer claims ~400 umol @ 1ft), so a level of illumination often not recommended for seedling/vegetative growth.

I am trying to understand why it is so often recommended that you do not employ intense illumination immediately upon germination?

Has the intensity of the HPS artificially stunted the terminal shoot because of high intensity, therefore allowing the lateral development to overcome? Would this be due to the inverse square law, as the terminal shoot was too close and was stunted, thus encouraging lateral development?

Thanks,

 

[TerpeneTom]

Every unique phenotype has allowed axial branching too surpass the terminal shoot; it seems the terminal shoot has not progressed in days.

Is this a phenomenon that can be attributed to some select variable within my environment? Or solely due to genetics?

 

[TerpeneTom]

The terminal shoots have not developed - noticeably stunted - since the lateral branches surpassed.

Anyone willing to provide some insight?

I'm wanting to say this can be achieved via control of light intensity, exposure of seedling during premature growth cycle, and spectrum. Like mentioned, I have artificially topped these plants.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Hi DoubleT
Too much light can burn plants like you can get sunburnt. Obviously, what you call 'inverse square law' or simply the radial and not linear light distribution of a bulb will burn closer things way faster. But you should see eventually burnt tips.
Apical and lateral branching have a genetic predisposition. Cannabis usually has a strong apical dominance until flowering where things may change. Also, one or the other can overtake as a reaction to different endogenous or exogenous stimuli. From what I can tell, there are a few phenotypes of cannabis showing mainly lateral branching; seems to me as if it occurs more often in Lebanese varieties.
Notable, once the lateral branches get the signal to start growing, they take over. Lateral branching in many plants (don't know from my experience if also true for cannabis) is dominant once started and can't be reversed.
Apical and lateral branching are primarily regulated by hormones: auxins produced in the terminal bud inhibit lateral ones whereas cytokinins and later gibberellic acid regulate onset and progression of lateral outgrowth.
Did you play around with PGRs or 'mystery fluids' with unknown content to boost this and that?

 

[TerpeneTom]

Thank you, Ornamental. I have burnt the tips of canopy leaves. Is this encouraging further lateral growth? Or does this inhibit all growth? It appears I am controlling something.

No growth regulators within the reservoir; solely Jack's hydroponic nutrient: 3-1-4 ratio.

People physically prune their plants to achieve the structure my plants express 'naturally'. These are all from a poly-hybrid s1 seed stock.

 

[Only Ornamental]

If the parent already had lateral dominance, it's offspring (especially upon selfing) should express the same; the round shrub like stature of laterally dominant plants seems to be recessive trait. Maybe you could try the exact same conditions with another strain and see if it's reproducible?
Out of curiosity, do you have any pictures of these plants?

 

[TerpeneTom]

I have observed many individuals producing this strain online, and none show the structure I observe, although as I stated: variables galore.

But...I will employ the same procedures (althought I will be more aggressive with the illumination, exposing the seedlings immediately upon imbibition. No complete darkness as many recommend) on various strains in the future.

There is significant variation in the phenotypes, as expected with a poly-hybrid. Some which seems would not naturally express such characteristics. This is East Coast Sour Diesel: Chemdawg X {MassSuperSkunk X SensiNL} X {RFK Skunk X Hawaiin} X Northern Lights

I hate taking pictures with my phone, but for scientific purposes I will do so later.



Whatever these are worth. What I have uploaded. Not great environment for pictures.

 

[Scottish Research]

Genetics.

 

[TerpeneTom]

These are undoubtedly excessive branching genetics. Are my remarks regarding other individuals grows of the similar seed stock invalid? It must be the distance these individuals maintain between the canopy and the light source, because both specific grow journals show a completely different structure, and they each planted four individual seeds. Are these individuals not obtaining the potential of these genetics? I recognize two general phenotype groups, although each have distinctions.

Are there infinite possibilities from poly-hybrid S1 seed stock? Or is it limited? As I mention, all the grows I have observed showcase generally similar structured plants.

I am repeating myself now, so could you please elaborate and settle this, Scott?

 

[Coconutz]

Ive seen this happen before when plants were stunted by too much nute and too much light

 

[TerpeneTom]

The seedlings were sown in 200 PPM Flora Nova Bloom charged rockwool cube; they showed no distress until I transplanted to the stronger solution, which was ~600 PPM .5 scale, assuming they could handle the aggressive environment (C02, Intense illumination, 70%+ humidity, continuous circulation). As expected, some were affected more than the others.

I also allowed the plants to grow too close to the light hood, where select leaves in the canopy expressed chlorosis.

So, Coconutz, you are claiming this can be attributed to external variables?



26 days, 5 hours from germination.

 

[jayjayfrank]

when the tips of my plants get light burned they also branch out...

i think that is what you are also seeing

 

[TerpeneTom]

Would this then be a better means of topping than physically removing the dominant top? Similar?

 

[jayjayfrank]

i consistently bend the top shoot over(crushed stem) until others catch up

dj short plants will exhibit one main shoot until sex is determined and then start side branching, by harvest all 'primary' shoots will be the same height

something along the lines of - apical dominance is broken when cytokinins ratio is dictated by sex hormones(gibberellic acid?)

if you are looking for a way to keep your plants from strectching look into Aptus - FaSilitor and BAP