Are they really sativas?

[recirculator]

I've been trying to find a pure sativa to grow that doesn't take forever to finish. There are many strains that I'm encountering listed as sativas or pure sativas that have flowering times in the 8-9 week range and I'm wondering if it's at all possible that these are truly pure Sativas.

Here's a news report from the CBC (Canadian network) that highlights the mislabeling of strains and seems to indicate the only pure sativas they could find were Dr. Grinspoon, Neville's Haze and SSH (doesn't that one have NL in it??)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMYqLb-iOJU&t=1s

So I ask you all...which pure sativas are you aware of that don't take 12-16 weeks to finish that you think really are sativas?

Along the same lines, how do you think it's possible that Mango Tango, listed as 70/30 indica dominant hybrid won best Sativa flower at the SoCal HTCC 2015? Is Mango Tango a Sativa or an indica dominant hybrid? Could the cup entry have been particular pheno that was more sativa than most MangoTango?

I'm inclined to think that most of these strains are actually indicas or hybrids that people call sativas if they find the high uplifting rather than couchlock...

Thoughts?

 

[Dropped Cat]

All good if the hybrid cultivar finishes in 80-90 days,
and gives the desired non couch lock up high.

Lots of seed vendors have great hybrids that match that description.

Given that, a proper narrow leaf type plant, when properly grown
with a flower time from 110-140 days will, after a proper cure,
change your perspective on cannabis forever.

 

[recirculator]

ok, and what if it finishes in less than that.

Here's an example. DNA calls Chocolope and Cannalope Haze as 95% sativas that finish in 8-9 weeks.
Do you think that if I sent samples to phylos they'd come back as 95% sativas?
Let's say they came back as 45% sativa...would a dispensary be unethical to put this on the Sativa shelf knowing it wasn't?

What if the high was energizing and uplifting. Would you still call it a Sativa?

 

[grayeyes]

Dispensaries lie all the time. It is a way to shake out your pockets.

 

[kamyo]

Best thing to do would probably be to try and trace the lineage back as far as you can, or at least look up other grows of the varieties you're interested in. As far as Cannalope Haze goes, I don't know if there's new information, but many years ago, it was speculated to maybe be a relabeled C99. Not sure if there's truth to that or not, but it allows you to look into her lineage a bit.

More often than not, to grow a good sativa means paying the price with regard to time, space, and patience. You might want to have a look at Ace or Cannabiogen, as you'll find the selection of sativas there more than fulfilling. Bangi Haze might be something worth looking at. She's a good one for sure.

Other varieties like Neville's, SSH, Skunk/Haze, and NLHaze (all of which share basically the same genetics in one combination or another) might be worth a look, but the more sativa ones will still take you upwards (and in the case of Neville's, likely past) 11-12 weeks. Still, something like C99 or a good SSH pheno should give you a nice sativa high with a reasonable finishing time. But it will not be pure sativa. To find a pure sativa means looking for just that. Anything else will be a hybrid, and in many cases nowadays, polyhybrids involving various combinations of the genetics I mentioned above.

With a lot of breeders that I'm not familiar with, I take their purported genetics and finishing times with a grain of salt. The proof is in your experience or the experience of others you trust. Seed companies are in the business of selling seeds and that sometimes requires being less than forthcoming about what the grower can expect.

 

[Frylock]

Forget about ethics.... a lot of vendors write 8-9 weeks but in reality they take 10-11+ weeks.

I think they try to cover all bases in the descriptions sometimes 'soaring sativa high finished in 8-9 weeks'

 

[Happy Times]

I’d guess hybrids

Some can be really nice, Ft. Collins Cough comes to mind

 

[jaded1]

Quite a lot of africans have a shorter flower period than the s.american/Asian strains.Congolese and Durban poison are relatively quick for pure sat's.

 

[Lesnah]

I think what ppl assume to be a real deal "NLD Sativa" are the wispy, tall, lanky, Pure Haze cultivars which smell of spices and hit like caffeine and coke mixed up.

What Clarke's book claims to be true Cannabis Indica...or drug type hemp.

That's how I understand it at least.

 

[Popey]

For me, sativa is, above all, a kind of high - the herb must have an action only on the mind, completely without the body.

If the breeder endeavors to close the sativa effect in a short-flowering plant, he will succeed after hard work. This is unfortunately a long and tedious job, therefore most breeders prefer to lie in descriptions. Breeders write that they have sativa and in reality they don't look like sativa, and (above all) there is no sativa high.



I used to grow Panama (probably from Ace but I'm not sure), advertised as 100% sativa. She looked like this:

There is definitely no 100% sativa for such a structure, especially since it only took 8 weeks, so saying that 100% sativa is a disgusting lie, but ... HIGH - it was something amazing. For the first time after burning the herbs instead of playing games, talking or listening to music, I began to feel an irresistible urge to move, some force made me clean the apartment (vacuuming, rubbing the dust, washing the floor) - 100% mind, 0% body. In addition, I didn't feel the chase of thoughts, anxiety and the rapid heartbeat typical of haze. For me it was an amazing sativa despite the lack of appearance and flowering time typical of sativ.

In conclusion: I think that if someone makes a lot of effort, he is able to receive a sative with a short flowering time and acting only on the mind.

 

[yesum]

I grew some Seedsman Afghan and got long flowering thin leaved plants. Still it was some of the most sedative smoke I have ever had.

Just got done smoking some C99 and mostly all head high with some energy. Not sativa in looks but effects are there for me.

 

[CannaZen]

You ask a very good question yeah because south african plants are considered pure sativa by some, they flower in inflorescence for 11-14 weeks or so. Panama from ace seeds is like that and they call it a pure sativa... Hemp is cannabis sativa. I dont think panama were purposely and intentionally hybridized with contaminated genetics so much as domesticated individuals were selected from the population.

They're not a separate species really, They're the same species its just unique collections of traits known independently as Sativa and Indica. I really admire the rich diverse history and expressions of the plant.

I deeply feel it is misunderstood because there's more than meets the eye to the sativa indica distinction for most i find.
Quintessentially, as one organism a lot goes on between the roots and the plant structure above the surface.

Sativa as we call them is a bit of an oxymoron as the latin word sativum means cultivated. It is true Real "sativa" taxonomy applies to plants that can grow 16-20 feet in height because their naturalized environment in the tropics has the right climate for true 'sativas' to grow into a full tree sized plant but most "sativas" do not grow to that proportion.

Edit:

Sativas appear to be the least domesticated varietals of the species.

i mean perhaps not less domesticated its just a different metabolism. It's only my objective opinion and although ngakpa from the real seed company does not believe in the study correlating Indica and hemp sharing descent heritage from the feral populations humans have domesticated cannabis from, there is a genetic correlation that were connected in a scientific study.

So.. like I'm still trying to figure out the correlation between plant expressions linking metabolism with resins and terpenes, okay. Classic indica is renown for its myrcene content above all. Subtropical sativas i do not know as much about their terpene content but you can bet Limonene is quite prevalent. I dont exactly remember if myrcene helps cannabinoids cross the blood brain barrier but i do know Limonene has been correlated to improve cannabinoid absorption in the body as such.

Alpha-pinene is common to both Indica Sativa varietals and "α-Pinene is highly bioavailable with 60% human pulmonary uptake with rapid metabolism or redistribution" Really you should read about these terpenes because we know most varietals to have been primarily domesticated for thc or cbd and they have pharmacological action with neurons and more.

Umm.. so with metabolism linked and with plant expression, 14-16 weeks of flowering inflorescence i would say its a consideration of metabolic response and practicality.

The terpene/flavonoid resin rabit hole goes so much deeper in terms of precursor organic compounds it gets really interesting... names like benzo and propyl (so, loose association with alcohol and poppies.. but not exactly) there are terpene alcohol such as linalool (lilac aroma) I've read about and monoterpenes, sesquiterpenes and more.

I quote

There are two main types of cannabinoids: Pentyl and Propyl. The more common cannabinoids, like CBD, have a ‘tail’ of five carbon atoms, and is the characteristic of the pentyl class of cannabinoids.
The precursor of these compounds, olivetolic acid, is used by cannabis plants to synthesize CBG, or cannabigerolic. CBG is then used to create the cannabinoids THC, CBD, and/or CBC.
The other class of cannabinoids, the propyl class, have ‘tails’ that are only 3 carbon atoms in length. In some cultivars of cannabis, like some that can be found in southern Africa, the precursor used to create cannabinoids is slightly different, and is called divarinic acid. Instead of producing CBG acid, these plants produce CBGV, which will then be further synthesized into the cannabinoids CBDV, THCV, and/or CBDV.

The article goes on further to say CBDV cannabinoids are also found in other regions than africa.




To further elaborate, people say there are predominant sativa or indica phenotypes from a particular genotype population, this is true to be the case from so called authentic heirloom landrace seeds from their naturalized geographical region of the hindu kush for instance the species has been said to have originated from nearby that region but because the region is an arid mountainous climate the plants have hardy "indica" characteristics even though it is the same species where narrow leaf dominant plants may prevail..

Im just trying to say that in my opinion perhaps plants with 16-24 flowering time do share correlation with nld 11-14 flowering time plants if for the same metabolic responses in environments not so tropical. Sativa has differing metabolic responses to environment. EDIT: Better said that the sativa genotype is from a different phenotype response, relatively.

Indica is associated with sleep-inducing (narcotic) effects, its because of the correlation with benzo/propyl cannabinoids and terpenes, it does not necessarily mean NLD pure sativa plants (hemp stature, with robust flowers) may necessarily produce sleep-bringing effects though some have the belief that thc is narcotic, i simply do not find that to be the case. Sativa is known as energetic and has strong association with floral, wood and citrus terpenes like limonene. Hemp is classified as cannabis sativa and it is grown all over the world. Go figure... They're all very loose associations of the same species.

 

[CannaZen]

Sorry i do not mean to further confuse the matter, i really do not know but i do realize sativa plants have different metabolisms and i think that tropical sativa and temperate sativa are perhaps both sativa. Its possible they may not have sleep inducing terpenes and perhaps much the same sativa profile while growing proportionate to temperate climates or vice versa.. im not sure. The difference is definitely a genotype metabolic response to environment aka phenotype.

 

[Dropped Cat]

For me, sativa is, above all, a kind of high - the herb must have an action only on the mind, completely without the body.

If the breeder endeavors to close the sativa effect in a short-flowering plant, he will succeed after hard work. This is unfortunately a long and tedious job, therefore most breeders prefer to lie in descriptions. Breeders write that they have sativa and in reality they don't look like sativa, and (above all) there is no sativa high.



I used to grow Panama (probably from Ace but I'm not sure), advertised as 100% sativa. She looked like this:

View Image

There is definitely no 100% sativa for such a structure, especially since it only took 8 weeks, so saying that 100% sativa is a disgusting lie, but ... HIGH - it was something amazing. For the first time after burning the herbs instead of playing games, talking or listening to music, I began to feel an irresistible urge to move, some force made me clean the apartment (vacuuming, rubbing the dust, washing the floor) - 100% mind, 0% body. In addition, I didn't feel the chase of thoughts, anxiety and the rapid heartbeat typical of haze. For me it was an amazing sativa despite the lack of appearance and flowering time typical of sativ.

In conclusion: I think that if someone makes a lot of effort, he is able to receive a sative with a short flowering time and acting only on the mind.

Agreed, as I once had and lost a sensi star x sensi star
by Ed at Delta 9 labs that fits that description that finished
before 90 days.

I have a male sensi star x nycd by Ed at Delta 9 labs
that i use in a cross that has produced some of similar
quality.

On a side note, I have a female thunk rooting that will cross with
a vintage male White Rhino this year.

I am using a breeding program that has proven to produce plants
downstream that are worthy of note.

 

[ahortator]

Of course they aren't real sativas. A fast flowering plant with thick buds (more calyxes) make more seeds in less time, so seedbanks use that to their advantage to produce more seeds for a less investment (less hours of electricity indoors and more seed production). So most of them are scammers who simply pull the wool over your eyes.

There were in the past fast sativas in Northern Mexico or South Africa but they have been absurdly replaced and wiped out by modern indica Kush hybrids. So the only real few sativas available nowadays are South East Asian and tropical equatorial extremely long flowering remaining strains.

 

[chiesesganja]

i try some local cambodia sativa flower about half year

 

[recirculator]

So for the most part any cannabis that enough users decide is uplifting and energizing rather than sedative is sativa regardless of the plants actual origins and physical characteristics?
I wonder how they quantified it into that red and blue graph in the news video...
Hmmmm.....

 

[CannaZen]

what news video.. I'm saying the stuff does have significance.. yes. epigenetics impacts metabolism and evolution?


indica strains are renown, they're from arid mountainous regions and they have different chemotypes its not just thc we're talking about in consideration here sativa is a botonical classification.

Plants are classified in several different ways. Plant classification has additional groupings that animal classification does not.

You want seeds originating from plants that are true sativa well... im just saying the taxonomy is not the exception when genes for sativa traits can "cross-contaminate" domestic seedlines, perhaps?

 

[Thcvhunter]

I have a sativa that flowers in 7 weeks (done by July outdoors)

I have an indica that flowers 12-14 weeks.

Your best bets are Sinai and Baglung Nepal.
They will finish before most hybrids.
And the are sativa.
The Sinai is a lot like Durban - real Durban, not this crap Durban that everyone calls “pure” - but done in half the time.

 

[Mr. Lovebuzzed]

there are narrow leaf varieties which can have red eye chillin out effect, almost "indica" like. there is wide range of effects from narrow leafers, so hard to classify "sativa" effect. there can be nice shorter flowering hybrids with uplifting effect, but its more about singular plant, or cultivar if you want, than the whole line.. nice cut of chocolope can do the trick, regardless % of "sativa".