Anything I should take into consideration before ordering 2 x KingBrite qb288 v3?

[RenaissanceBrah]

Been researching lights for a good few weeks, for my application and budget decided on the KingBrite 240W qb288 v3 lm301h red mix UV IR.




My only concern is that supposedly the Epistar LED's lose their efficiency quickly? Or is it not really something to worry about?

(Just wondering about the Epistar issue and anything else that I might not have taken into consideration, before I pull the trigger. Any feedback?)




I'm set on Kingbrite, just wondering if this is the best option from them.


[About my grow]:


What: Landrace Equatorial Sativas (planning to run two of the 4000K models above, as equatorial landraces seem to favor higher K's)

Why: Growing for effect and personal use. Don't mind small yield at all (I know most recommend 3000K or 3500K for yield).

Where: Ventilated Bathroom: 5.9" x 2.62" - 15.5 sq ft (I already have 1 x 100W Mars LED and 1 x 50W Chinese COB)... So total would be 630W

 

[Gaussamer]

Well to get them at that price you'll need to buy 30 of them.

I'd suggest Spider Farmer instead, assuming you're not actually dropping $4k.

 

[f-e]

I wouldn't want the UV&IR myself. They are there because people ask for it, but only there in name. Yes it's UV but LED's can't create meaningful amounts of it. Not even 'worth some consideration' amounts. It's turning some of your lighting installation into heating. The IR case might be just as true. No real use. It may give a little more stretch, but most people want less. There is no good case for either. Some specific 660s is nice to further warm the colour of a 3500K unit. The light does get a cooler colour over time and most people seem happy enough with how LED grows beside HID morphology. People buying bluer lights often think redder next time. Never hear it the other way round though. Nobody has bought an LED that's too red. It's the most efficient colour.

If you want to add some of this'n'that to see if it does anything, you should buy it as supplemental light. Then you can do runs with&without it, and play with it's timing. The timing bit is where we are seeing proper UV lights do some good. Even big enough lights want periodic use. The IR component is presumably 730nm which some are initiating sleep with. It's also a shade response trigger. Something again you want on a switch.

Nice and warm colour with some 660s is a good start. They offer different types of 660. Osram are good, but didn't KB start offering the Samsung red? It's a 301 family chip with even greater efficiency than the whites. The mk2 version is about 3.5umol


The bad bit is that the Samsung chips come off the line and go in one of 4 efficiency bins. The brightest. 5% lower or 10% lower. Or the bin that gets emptied every week.
There is no guaranty what people will give you. Though I think KB do state which somewhere. You might want to expect a 10% performance drop from a questionable supplier. If you expect it, you can never be disappointed.

I use KB myself. Including 288 units. I wouldn't go anywhere else. Even when I did DIY I used them as a supplier.

 

[yesum]

I went from the red thing to blue so you met one. brah has been talking with me though so he might be confused on the reality of things. Blue is associated with better potency and effect, red with yield. The UV thing with chips sounds sketchy to me. I sometimes use a lizard cfl to add some uv for couple days at the end of flower. If the uv is not able to be turned off it is gonna blast you a little during tent time unless you turn off everything. Which is a good idea anyways. I think the uv needs to be quite strong and I would not trust a LED chip to deliver that. My uv cfl has a range of 12 inches that is strong enough to do anything. I tested it with a uv meter. Really more like 6 inches.

My little uv cfl is too strong at one to two inches and really too weak at 7 inches. It is tricky to make uv work. I think the LED tech is not good enough now. Have not kept up though. If you can set the plants outside for a couple days in good sunlight at the end of flower, that would work better I think.

 

[RenaissanceBrah]

I wouldn't want the UV&IR myself. They are there because people ask for it, but only there in name. Yes it's UV but LED's can't create meaningful amounts of it. Not even 'worth some consideration' amounts. It's turning some of your lighting installation into heating. The IR case might be just as true. No real use. It may give a little more stretch, but most people want less. There is no good case for either. Some specific 660s is nice to further warm the colour of a 3500K unit. The light does get a cooler colour over time and most people seem happy enough with how LED grows beside HID morphology. People buying bluer lights often think redder next time. Never hear it the other way round though. Nobody has bought an LED that's too red. It's the most efficient colour.

If you want to add some of this'n'that to see if it does anything, you should buy it as supplemental light. Then you can do runs with&without it, and play with it's timing. The timing bit is where we are seeing proper UV lights do some good. Even big enough lights want periodic use. The IR component is presumably 730nm which some are initiating sleep with. It's also a shade response trigger. Something again you want on a switch.

Nice and warm colour with some 660s is a good start. They offer different types of 660. Osram are good, but didn't KB start offering the Samsung red? It's a 301 family chip with even greater efficiency than the whites. The mk2 version is about 3.5umol


The bad bit is that the Samsung chips come off the line and go in one of 4 efficiency bins. The brightest. 5% lower or 10% lower. Or the bin that gets emptied every week.
There is no guaranty what people will give you. Though I think KB do state which somewhere. You might want to expect a 10% performance drop from a questionable supplier. If you expect it, you can never be disappointed.

I use KB myself. Including 288 units. I wouldn't go anywhere else. Even when I did DIY I used them as a supplier.

Thank you f-e for the response. Most likely it doesn't do anything, but even so, if I replaced those 72 red diodes on each light with regular 4000K or 3500K LEDs, how much difference in the final product would it make, you think?

Would it only improve yield, or also effect, in your opinion? (I don't really care about yield or potency, chasing purely positive effect)

(PS - Any particular model Kingbrite you'd recommend, based on my application/goals? Lot's of options with Kingbrite so a bit lost)

 

[f-e]

It's not as clean cut as red light grows plants and blue grows resin, or thoughts to that effect. The crossover between them is so vast. It's proven a red photon is more effective than a blue one. You do need an amount of blue though. Sodium lights actually provide enough. Warm White LED's give off a lot more. Sodium works though and LED's didn't create a product so different that everyone ditched there sodiums. There will be no night&day difference to be found in effect.

I think if the 72 reds were swapped, You would be swapping good red for less useful blue and green. The 660 red is all good and the white leds support them. The Samsung website has all the colour graphs so you can see the trade as you choose cooler lights. It's not just red for blue. The orange drops and green rises to with most lights.

Blue light is more traditionally associated with vegetative growth. It seems beyond morphology though. What grows is a bit different. It stands to reason that if you have everything red light grows, then adding blue gives something else. I have added Halides and seen a pleasing effect. Found the taste different. Then stopped doing again. It was only ever different. Not better. I could use the power to run sodiums instead and see better buds.

I should say, I have thought about just white LED's. Not knowing the RED's in use I couldn't compare to the amount of red the very decent 301's produce. So have not made a real comparison. The reds in use make a huge difference. The price for the Osram's used to put the lights price up over 50%. They could never make the light 50% brighter. I'm not sure if 660s will ever be as cost effective as white LEDs, made in the millions. They get all the funding to be the best. Then the tech is carried over to more niche products.

UVB is so niche, it's medial grade stuff for skin conditions. A big UVB LED might output 0.3w and cost $50 per chip. They won't be in grow, fish or replite lights. Mercury Vapour lamps give off lots of UV that we usually use to excite phosphors on the tubes surface to give white light. It's use in flo's and the arc tubes of Metal halide lamps makes for a cheap effective UV lamp. The gap between them is vast.

I'm not sure if they sell just white LED 288 boards.


I would go for one of these https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...fferlist.topad_classic.d_title.63bc4e0brFXPW7
It's just the V3 with 660 epistar, but you save $15 and get more useful light. That $15 might buy you a uvb cfl when you are ready to play about with them.


Best thing about the 288, they will keep making spares for a while. Boards are about $30 and might be worth swapping at about 5 years. Getting the depreciating boards put aside for the newest LED's. The gap will be about 20% by then. The driver should make 10 years if not left on the light cooking. They have a future. Lots of lights don't

 

[yesum]

Sun wins out by a lot in any case. I use white LED with higher Kelvin rating trying to mimic the sun at midday and also closer to the equator and higher elevation. If you get it done with redder stuff then you do. I am following the sun as best I can. Light deps try to do so in the middle of the summer for added punch to the product. Not a reddish environment.

 

[RenaissanceBrah]

It's not as clean cut as red light grows plants and blue grows resin, or thoughts to that effect. The crossover between them is so vast. It's proven a red photon is more effective than a blue one. You do need an amount of blue though. Sodium lights actually provide enough. Warm White LED's give off a lot more. Sodium works though and LED's didn't create a product so different that everyone ditched there sodiums. There will be no night&day difference to be found in effect.

I think if the 72 reds were swapped, You would be swapping good red for less useful blue and green. The 660 red is all good and the white leds support them. The Samsung website has all the colour graphs so you can see the trade as you choose cooler lights. It's not just red for blue. The orange drops and green rises to with most lights.

Blue light is more traditionally associated with vegetative growth. It seems beyond morphology though. What grows is a bit different. It stands to reason that if you have everything red light grows, then adding blue gives something else. I have added Halides and seen a pleasing effect. Found the taste different. Then stopped doing again. It was only ever different. Not better. I could use the power to run sodiums instead and see better buds.

I should say, I have thought about just white LED's. Not knowing the RED's in use I couldn't compare to the amount of red the very decent 301's produce. So have not made a real comparison. The reds in use make a huge difference. The price for the Osram's used to put the lights price up over 50%. They could never make the light 50% brighter. I'm not sure if 660s will ever be as cost effective as white LEDs, made in the millions. They get all the funding to be the best. Then the tech is carried over to more niche products.

UVB is so niche, it's medial grade stuff for skin conditions. A big UVB LED might output 0.3w and cost $50 per chip. They won't be in grow, fish or replite lights. Mercury Vapour lamps give off lots of UV that we usually use to excite phosphors on the tubes surface to give white light. It's use in flo's and the arc tubes of Metal halide lamps makes for a cheap effective UV lamp. The gap between them is vast.

I'm not sure if they sell just white LED 288 boards.


I would go for one of these https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...63bc4e0brFXPW7
It's just the V3 with 660 epistar, but you save $15 and get more useful light. That $15 might buy you a uvb cfl when you are ready to play about with them.


Best thing about the 288, they will keep making spares for a while. Boards are about $30 and might be worth swapping at about 5 years. Getting the depreciating boards put aside for the newest LED's. The gap will be about 20% by then. The driver should make 10 years if not left on the light cooking. They have a future. Lots of lights don't

Thanks f-e for your insights, I'm beginning to understand more.

Regarding that light you sent me, in your opinion, are the CREE LED's far superior to the Epistars?

I've heard many people knocking the Epistars as far inferior, but was wondering how much truth there was to that. I did see some similar lights on there with CREE's that had moderately higher PPFD results. Is the PPFD also something very important to consider, or not as much?

 

[f-e]

You can't really rate lights in ppfd as it's a measure of canopy illumination. The umol/j rating is emission. Things can get lost in translation though. The cree is a good 660 as is the latest samsung. I'm not entirely sure of the ratings, but yes, the Epistar isn't the best in output terms. The Samsung and Cree (and Osram?) are royalty but still the Epistar is still elite. I think around 2.8umol/J all at about 660nm. The others are knocking on 3.5umol/J but the price... They might be as much as 25% better, but make up a small proportion of the light unit, and put more than 25% on it's price. It's into diminishing returns. The kind of gain that will be lost in LED luminous depreciation quite soon. For a cost that could buy new boards. It's like that latest cpu that will cost half as much in 6 months. You want it but you know it's advantage will be gone before the PC's even booted.

 

[Guest]

I had that model in a 2x4 with 2 plants. They both leaned toward the center. Hot spot in the center, and it won't reflect off a 4 ft space.

They make a model with 2 separate boards connected with aluminum rails (although this specific "brand" forgets to include the rails), I'd get that instead. Aluminum channel is easy to work with so you can create any footprint. These lights cast so many shadows, they should all come with adjustable rails.

This is the default rail for the split model. Fits a 3x3 much better.

 

[f-e]

Sun wins out by a lot in any case. I use white LED with higher Kelvin rating trying to mimic the sun at midday and also closer to the equator and higher elevation. If you get it done with redder stuff then you do. I am following the sun as best I can. Light deps try to do so in the middle of the summer for added punch to the product. Not a reddish environment.

I had a little train of thought about this. On the equator, they spend half the day in light warmer than 4500K and a couple of hours warmer than 3500K. So plants that live in the coolest lighting conditions, have evolved to rely more heavily on the warm end of the spectrum. As we move from the equator with our genetics, the light they evolved to use gets warmer. The exact numbers are reported miles apart by different websites but the idea is there. It's red they can rely on.

There has been little research into the effects of lighting colour on circadian rhythms. We naturally presume blue light grows better and red light blooms better. It's been a constant for decades, but remains unproven. 15 years back we thought an amount of blue is needed, after which we should just produce all the red we can. This holds true for people who's lecturers we respect. Though not for all plants.

 

[f-e]

I had that model in a 2x4 with 2 plants. They both leaned toward the center. Hot spot in the center, and it won't reflect off a 4 ft space.

They make a model with 2 separate boards connected with aluminum rails (although this specific "brand" forgets to include the rails), I'd get that instead. Aluminum channel is easy to work with so you can create any footprint. These lights cast so many shadows, they should all come with adjustable rails. filedata/fetch?id=17852794&d=1620516929
This is the default rail for the split model. Fits a 3x3 much better.

I like those. A little more expensive but more flexible.


I like to put the eye bolts in so the loop is below the light. I find them safer to put face down on the ground that way, and when it comes to packing them away, two can go face2face with a tie though the loops.
It also moves the light up maybe 30mm. Not a lot by itself, but they send 4 wires to dangle each light head from the supplied rope ratchets. Each about 300mm long. You can use just two and hang at 150mm. Then that 30mm starts to matter. 315mm or 135mm.
I then continue to limit the number of ratchets in use, but you have to stop somewhere.
I hope it's the right pic, as I'm buggered if I need to remove it (I will edit in a moment to get some size choices, so I can see it)

edit: Nope, can't see shit
Swap pic
Try again with no idea how it will format..
Remove old pic
And again for size..

Lots error messages to ignore as usual.. Should of worked?
Yes.. result. Now I should explain it was work in progress. The filters been changed and all the lights have the white covers with variable speed fans to send the heat up. Fans hang from the eye bolts to. Well.. On two of the lights. More to follow. Eye bolts good

 

[yesum]

On the Kelvin thing. A GE scientist in Thailand measured the midday sun at 10,000 K. Might have been in summer but anyways. Nature might make a lot of red light but that does not mean it is optimal for influencing the high we want, just what nature is doing. We make hash to get a stronger buzz, not natural. I do not smoke hash btw.

 

[RenaissanceBrah]

I had that model in a 2x4 with 2 plants. They both leaned toward the center. Hot spot in the center, and it won't reflect off a 4 ft space.

They make a model with 2 separate boards connected with aluminum rails (although this specific "brand" forgets to include the rails), I'd get that instead. Aluminum channel is easy to work with so you can create any footprint. These lights cast so many shadows, they should all come with adjustable rails. filedata/fetch?id=17852794&d=1620516929
This is the default rail for the split model. Fits a 3x3 much better.

Would you think that's still the best option for the dimensions of my grow space? (Shown below)

Am going to run my existing crappy lights (Mars 100W LED and Chinese 50W COB) on one end, and the new Kingbrite 240W's on the other end. I'll probably have a setup with spacing similar to what you were showing in the rail there.

Buttholocaust - you mentioned your waterproof models attract more dust. How bad is that dust problem? In your opinion is the IP65 model not worth it?

 

[0j4Udcfr8z]

$1 a bulb. Virtually no heat.

Watch out for electric shock hazzard if taking the caps off.